JF 17 Truth

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by gokussj9, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Urdunama: Khas Dost | The Filter Coffee

    Once upon a time, there lived two best friends…

    Javed Chaudhry, Urdu columnist on The Express, had written an interesting article the Joint Fighter (JF-17) multi-role combat aircraft, purported to be the result of a Sino-Pakistan defense project. The Filter Coffee has pointed out previously, how this “all-weather” friendship between China and Pakistan is a elaborate farce that has fooled no one. Pakistan has entered into deals with China only when other avenues were closed, and China, fully cognizant of Pakistan’s plight, has maximized its own gains to Pakistan’s detriment. An old article by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa reinforces this point.

    Mr. Chaudhry narrates the circumstances behind the Sino-Pakistan JF-17 project (اردو). LT @muladhara for bringing this article to my attention.

    Air Marshall Shahid Latif is a decorated officer of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). In January 1983, he became one of the first in the PAF to receive training on flying F-16s in the U.S. He was also responsible for initiating Pakistan’s bid to purchase F-16s from the U.S. In 2000, Air Marshall Latif was put in charge of the JF-17 [Joint Fighter] project, which was initiated in 1994 with the assistance of China. The project was meant to be a joint venture with a Chinese firm, CATIC. China and Pakistan hoped to joint-manufacture the jet to meet their defense needs and supply JF-17s to interested countries.

    Pakistan felt compelled to enter into an agreement with China because Pakistan was unable to replace its aging fighter aircraft after being ostracized by the U.S. for “supporting terror groups,” after the Afghanistan war. PAF faced the possibility of becoming a spent force, following the U.S.’s embargo and the obsolescence of its own aircraft. Thus, in 1994, the Benazir Bhutto administration entered into an agreement with China to co-manufacture JF-17 aircraft. However, no progress was made due to international pressure and Pakistan’s own economic situation. The project was restarted in 2000, with Air Marshall Latif at the helm, and within three years, the JF-17 made its first successful test flight.

    After JF-17′s success, PAF labeled Air Marshall Latif the “AQ Khan of the JF-17.” The project envisaged Pakistan and China contributing 58% and 42% respectively to manufacture components needed for the aircraft, which was expected to rival the F-16. Air Marshall Latif was expected to rise to the post of Chief of Air Staff after the success of this project; however, due to pressure from an unnamed country, another individual superseded him to the post.

    After the new Chief of Air Staff took command, plans of the joint venture to co-manufacture JF-17s were abandoned. Instead, Pakistan entered into an agreement with CATIC to purchase the aircraft [thus altering the nature of the project and the relationship between the two parties]. The original cost of the project was expected to be $1 billion (Pakistan hoped to manufacture 250 JF-17s). As part of this new agreement, Pakistan obtained a loan, again from CATIC, at an interest rate of 7% to purchase these aircraft in 2008. The terms of this loan were excessive, given the world economic crisis and the fact that Pakistan had just entered into another loan agreement with CATIC at a considerable price for an aviation system. As a result, Pakistan was compelled to sign the purchase agreement with CATIC on March 18, 2009, at a final price of $10 billion. [The Express]
     
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  3. Decklander

    Decklander New Member

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    OMG, It can't be true? $10billion for 250 JF-17. That makes it $40million/ac.
     
  4. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, that $10 billion may include the transfer of technology etc. too. Main thing is the the interest rate of 7% and the overrated hype of JF 17 being a JV.
     
  5. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    wrong info

    such as the order of 250 and 10 billions
     
  6. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is given by a Paki Journalist, so we have no reason to believe it's false.
    List of aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    says Pakistan will eventually induct 250 aircrafts.
    Again the emphasis is on the hype of JV by Paki's which has been
    blown off by this aticle. :rofl:
    Also post some proof to back up your claims rather than bickering.
     
  7. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    jft is awesome fighter Considering paf and limited budget

    no sanction tensions
    helping aviation industry
    low price
    replacing older fleet

    while in multirole capabilities it has even left f16 behind

    sead capability with mar 1
    Ashm/SOM with cm400akg
    bvr with sd10
    A2G /A2A

    while in f16 case they dont have antiship,stand off or sead role
     
  8. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    jf 17 vs f-16 :rofl:
    Some senior would better smash your claim as I do not have extensive
    deep knowledge regarding fighter jets unless I can provide fanboy stuff like you.
    Chinese JF-17 is a Cheap Competition For The F-16 - RP Defense
    Read on.

    And it is certainly not "low price" considering the $10 billion amount and 7% interest rate.
    Why Paki's are so hellbent on su**ng the Chinese, I just don't understand.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  9. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    f16 is Indeed more capable and a medium class fighter but for paf it doesnt offer as much multirole as the jft is offering
     
  10. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Jf-17( lafunder), the most over hyped fighter plane in the world.


    JF-17 wo goli ha jo na nigli jaye na nikali:laugh::laugh:
     
  11. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    Does anyone have links to the PAF-CATIC agreement of $10 billion for 250 JF-17 aircraft?

    Given the continued development of the JF-17, its evaluation with improved avionics, IFR etc. I don't see how either China or Pakistan could sign an agreement this far in advance for hundreds more aircraft, not knowing what the final configuration, and therefore cost, of the JF-17 will be.
     
  12. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    As the 153+ Mirage are going to retire, it makes sense to induct 200+ jf-17.
    For links to the contract, you better look for Javed Chaudhary's articles since
    I do not know Urdu. IMHO, he seems to be an honest journalist who continues
    to expose Pak establishment. As per this article, All-weather doormat | The Filter Coffee,
    I have no qualms that Paki's continue to appease the chinese and the chinese keep
    milking them.:rofl:
     
  13. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    why dont you guys Change all the fighters with junk fighter, after all you guys have complete TOT for it.

    after all it is such a great fighter with your super pilots.
     
  14. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If Pakistan finds the aircraft comforting, then it is good for them.

    I am sure it must be a real super aircraft or else why should they have them, though I would also agree that the market for them to shop around is limited given the cash outflow they can manage.

    Or maybe I am wrong, who knows?
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    what engine will be in this plane??
     
  17. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russian RD-93
     
  18. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    It makes sense to replace retiring aircraft with new aircraft, but it does not make sense to sign a contract years in advance for hundreds of aircraft when the final technological composition and per-unit cost of those aircraft is not known, and when the PAF is also evaluating the J-10.

    And while I cannot comment on the 'honesty' of the journalist, having seen some of his programs and his nonsensical monologues, often utilizing some historical figure from Islamic history and their actions, I don't consider him by any means qualified enough to understand, let alone accurately compose an article on, technical military issues.

    His shows are on YouTube and elsewhere, take a listen yourself and let me know what you think.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This is not what others claim? rd-93 will be for China's planes
    Russians only giving 100 engines every 3-4 years,what will be exported knockoffs?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  20. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Javed: Corruption - Pakistan vs India - YouTube
    Javed: Education - Pak vs India & China - YouTube
    Javed: US Control over Pakistan - YouTube
    Javed: "Hypocrisy" - Key Pakistani Trait - YouTube
    Javed: Buddha's Advice to Pakistan - YouTube

    Seems fine to me. He quotes from Buddha also BTW.
    It hurts for Paki's to listen to him because he exposes their
    weaknesses. Anyways, keep su**ing hard just as you did with
    US and blow up the shit**le asap.
     
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  21. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    At least this says CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia rd-93.
    Not sure if WS-13 is fully operational.
     

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