JF 17 Truth

gokussj9

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Urdunama: Khas Dost | The Filter Coffee

Once upon a time, there lived two best friends"¦

Javed Chaudhry, Urdu columnist on The Express, had written an interesting article the Joint Fighter (JF-17) multi-role combat aircraft, purported to be the result of a Sino-Pakistan defense project. The Filter Coffee has pointed out previously, how this "all-weather" friendship between China and Pakistan is a elaborate farce that has fooled no one. Pakistan has entered into deals with China only when other avenues were closed, and China, fully cognizant of Pakistan's plight, has maximized its own gains to Pakistan's detriment. An old article by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa reinforces this point.

Mr. Chaudhry narrates the circumstances behind the Sino-Pakistan JF-17 project (اردو). LT @muladhara for bringing this article to my attention.

Air Marshall Shahid Latif is a decorated officer of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). In January 1983, he became one of the first in the PAF to receive training on flying F-16s in the U.S. He was also responsible for initiating Pakistan's bid to purchase F-16s from the U.S. In 2000, Air Marshall Latif was put in charge of the JF-17 [Joint Fighter] project, which was initiated in 1994 with the assistance of China. The project was meant to be a joint venture with a Chinese firm, CATIC. China and Pakistan hoped to joint-manufacture the jet to meet their defense needs and supply JF-17s to interested countries.

Pakistan felt compelled to enter into an agreement with China because Pakistan was unable to replace its aging fighter aircraft after being ostracized by the U.S. for "supporting terror groups," after the Afghanistan war. PAF faced the possibility of becoming a spent force, following the U.S.'s embargo and the obsolescence of its own aircraft. Thus, in 1994, the Benazir Bhutto administration entered into an agreement with China to co-manufacture JF-17 aircraft. However, no progress was made due to international pressure and Pakistan's own economic situation. The project was restarted in 2000, with Air Marshall Latif at the helm, and within three years, the JF-17 made its first successful test flight.

After JF-17"²s success, PAF labeled Air Marshall Latif the "AQ Khan of the JF-17." The project envisaged Pakistan and China contributing 58% and 42% respectively to manufacture components needed for the aircraft, which was expected to rival the F-16. Air Marshall Latif was expected to rise to the post of Chief of Air Staff after the success of this project; however, due to pressure from an unnamed country, another individual superseded him to the post.

After the new Chief of Air Staff took command, plans of the joint venture to co-manufacture JF-17s were abandoned. Instead, Pakistan entered into an agreement with CATIC to purchase the aircraft [thus altering the nature of the project and the relationship between the two parties]. The original cost of the project was expected to be $1 billion (Pakistan hoped to manufacture 250 JF-17s). As part of this new agreement, Pakistan obtained a loan, again from CATIC, at an interest rate of 7% to purchase these aircraft in 2008. The terms of this loan were excessive, given the world economic crisis and the fact that Pakistan had just entered into another loan agreement with CATIC at a considerable price for an aviation system. As a result, Pakistan was compelled to sign the purchase agreement with CATIC on March 18, 2009, at a final price of $10 billion. [The Express]
 

Decklander

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Urdunama: Khas Dost | The Filter Coffee

Once upon a time, there lived two best friends"¦

Javed Chaudhry, Urdu columnist on The Express, had written an interesting article the Joint Fighter (JF-17) multi-role combat aircraft, purported to be the result of a Sino-Pakistan defense project. The Filter Coffee has pointed out previously, how this "all-weather" friendship between China and Pakistan is a elaborate farce that has fooled no one. Pakistan has entered into deals with China only when other avenues were closed, and China, fully cognizant of Pakistan's plight, has maximized its own gains to Pakistan's detriment. An old article by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa reinforces this point.

Mr. Chaudhry narrates the circumstances behind the Sino-Pakistan JF-17 project (اردو). LT @muladhara for bringing this article to my attention.

Air Marshall Shahid Latif is a decorated officer of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). In January 1983, he became one of the first in the PAF to receive training on flying F-16s in the U.S. He was also responsible for initiating Pakistan's bid to purchase F-16s from the U.S. In 2000, Air Marshall Latif was put in charge of the JF-17 [Joint Fighter] project, which was initiated in 1994 with the assistance of China. The project was meant to be a joint venture with a Chinese firm, CATIC. China and Pakistan hoped to joint-manufacture the jet to meet their defense needs and supply JF-17s to interested countries.

Pakistan felt compelled to enter into an agreement with China because Pakistan was unable to replace its aging fighter aircraft after being ostracized by the U.S. for "supporting terror groups," after the Afghanistan war. PAF faced the possibility of becoming a spent force, following the U.S.'s embargo and the obsolescence of its own aircraft. Thus, in 1994, the Benazir Bhutto administration entered into an agreement with China to co-manufacture JF-17 aircraft. However, no progress was made due to international pressure and Pakistan's own economic situation. The project was restarted in 2000, with Air Marshall Latif at the helm, and within three years, the JF-17 made its first successful test flight.

After JF-17"²s success, PAF labeled Air Marshall Latif the "AQ Khan of the JF-17." The project envisaged Pakistan and China contributing 58% and 42% respectively to manufacture components needed for the aircraft, which was expected to rival the F-16. Air Marshall Latif was expected to rise to the post of Chief of Air Staff after the success of this project; however, due to pressure from an unnamed country, another individual superseded him to the post.

After the new Chief of Air Staff took command, plans of the joint venture to co-manufacture JF-17s were abandoned. Instead, Pakistan entered into an agreement with CATIC to purchase the aircraft [thus altering the nature of the project and the relationship between the two parties]. The original cost of the project was expected to be $1 billion (Pakistan hoped to manufacture 250 JF-17s). As part of this new agreement, Pakistan obtained a loan, again from CATIC, at an interest rate of 7% to purchase these aircraft in 2008. The terms of this loan were excessive, given the world economic crisis and the fact that Pakistan had just entered into another loan agreement with CATIC at a considerable price for an aviation system. As a result, Pakistan was compelled to sign the purchase agreement with CATIC on March 18, 2009, at a final price of $10 billion. [The Express]
OMG, It can't be true? $10billion for 250 JF-17. That makes it $40million/ac.
 

gokussj9

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OMG, It can't be true? $10billion for 250 JF-17. That makes it $40million/ac.
Well, that $10 billion may include the transfer of technology etc. too. Main thing is the the interest rate of 7% and the overrated hype of JF 17 being a JV.
 

gokussj9

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farhan_9909

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jft is awesome fighter Considering paf and limited budget

no sanction tensions
helping aviation industry
low price
replacing older fleet

while in multirole capabilities it has even left f16 behind

sead capability with mar 1
Ashm/SOM with cm400akg
bvr with sd10
A2G /A2A

while in f16 case they dont have antiship,stand off or sead role
 

gokussj9

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jft is awesome fighter Considering paf and limited budget

no sanction tensions
helping aviation industry
low price
replacing older fleet

while in multirole capabilities it has even left f16 behind

sead capability with mar 1
Ashm/SOM with cm400akg
bvr with sd10
A2G /A2A

while in f16 case they dont have antiship,stand off or sead role
jf 17 vs f-16 :rofl:
Some senior would better smash your claim as I do not have extensive
deep knowledge regarding fighter jets unless I can provide fanboy stuff like you.
Chinese JF-17 is a Cheap Competition For The F-16 - RP Defense
Read on.

And it is certainly not "low price" considering the $10 billion amount and 7% interest rate.
Why Paki's are so hellbent on su**ng the Chinese, I just don't understand.
 
Last edited:

farhan_9909

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f16 is Indeed more capable and a medium class fighter but for paf it doesnt offer as much multirole as the jft is offering
 

Blackwater

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Jf-17( lafunder), the most over hyped fighter plane in the world.


JF-17 wo goli ha jo na nigli jaye na nikali:laugh::laugh:
 

Agnostic Muslim

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Does anyone have links to the PAF-CATIC agreement of $10 billion for 250 JF-17 aircraft?

Given the continued development of the JF-17, its evaluation with improved avionics, IFR etc. I don't see how either China or Pakistan could sign an agreement this far in advance for hundreds more aircraft, not knowing what the final configuration, and therefore cost, of the JF-17 will be.
 

gokussj9

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Does anyone have links to the PAF-CATIC agreement of $10 billion for 250 JF-17 aircraft?

Given the continued development of the JF-17, its evaluation with improved avionics, IFR etc. I don't see how either China or Pakistan could sign an agreement this far in advance for hundreds more aircraft, not knowing what the final configuration, and therefore cost, of the JF-17 will be.
As the 153+ Mirage are going to retire, it makes sense to induct 200+ jf-17.
For links to the contract, you better look for Javed Chaudhary's articles since
I do not know Urdu. IMHO, he seems to be an honest journalist who continues
to expose Pak establishment. As per this article, All-weather doormat | The Filter Coffee,
I have no qualms that Paki's continue to appease the chinese and the chinese keep
milking them.:rofl:
 

sayareakd

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why dont you guys Change all the fighters with junk fighter, after all you guys have complete TOT for it.

after all it is such a great fighter with your super pilots.
 

sayareakd

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Ray

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If Pakistan finds the aircraft comforting, then it is good for them.

I am sure it must be a real super aircraft or else why should they have them, though I would also agree that the market for them to shop around is limited given the cash outflow they can manage.

Or maybe I am wrong, who knows?
 

Agnostic Muslim

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As the 153+ Mirage are going to retire, it makes sense to induct 200+ jf-17.
For links to the contract, you better look for Javed Chaudhary's articles since
I do not know Urdu. IMHO, he seems to be an honest journalist who continues
to expose Pak establishment. As per this article, All-weather doormat | The Filter Coffee,
I have no qualms that Paki's continue to appease the chinese and the chinese keep
milking them.:rofl:
It makes sense to replace retiring aircraft with new aircraft, but it does not make sense to sign a contract years in advance for hundreds of aircraft when the final technological composition and per-unit cost of those aircraft is not known, and when the PAF is also evaluating the J-10.

And while I cannot comment on the 'honesty' of the journalist, having seen some of his programs and his nonsensical monologues, often utilizing some historical figure from Islamic history and their actions, I don't consider him by any means qualified enough to understand, let alone accurately compose an article on, technical military issues.

His shows are on YouTube and elsewhere, take a listen yourself and let me know what you think.
 

gokussj9

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It makes sense to replace retiring aircraft with new aircraft, but it does not make sense to sign a contract years in advance for hundreds of aircraft when the final technological composition and per-unit cost of those aircraft is not known, and when the PAF is also evaluating the J-10.

And while I cannot comment on the 'honesty' of the journalist, having seen some of his programs and his nonsensical monologues, often utilizing some historical figure from Islamic history and their actions, I don't consider him by any means qualified enough to understand, let alone accurately compose an article on, technical military issues.

His shows are on YouTube and elsewhere, take a listen yourself and let me know what you think.
Javed: Corruption - Pakistan vs India - YouTube
Javed: Education - Pak vs India & China - YouTube
Javed: US Control over Pakistan - YouTube
Javed: "Hypocrisy" - Key Pakistani Trait - YouTube
Javed: Buddha's Advice to Pakistan - YouTube

Seems fine to me. He quotes from Buddha also BTW.
It hurts for Paki's to listen to him because he exposes their
weaknesses. Anyways, keep su**ing hard just as you did with
US and blow up the shit**le asap.
 

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