Javed Akhtar talks on DAWN in a fiery talkbalk show

thakur_ritesh

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Pakistanis have not only made derogatory statements about Indians in general, but also about the 'dhoti wearing and vegetable eating' Hindus, 'munafiq' Indian Muslims, 'rice eating' Bengalis is East Pakistan and 'backward and uneducated' Baloch and Pathans. I recall seeing a cartoon of our revered Mahatma Gandhi that was in a very bad taste and I don't want to post it here. Let them make fun of others. It acts as an ego boost for them in the backdrop of a mutual history since 1947 in which they have had to face several military defeats in the hands of India.
its actually good. name calling, bad mouthing others, shows us the weakness and inferiority complex on part of the one doing it, and it confirms that all that we are doing is right.
 

mech-e

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we pakistanis dont care what this hinduized javed akhter thinks about pakistan, what derogatory remarks he can pass to quaid e azam and compare humiliatingly to RSS etc etc. the guy says quaid e azam was not religious??, and the reason is quaid used to drink and eat and blah blah, it doesnt men that not pretending to be religious doesnt make a person a non religious at heart...

javed said pakistan was made by jagirdars and waderas, so what about the support of indian muslims??, who gave support to this RSS similar muslim league and even some of them migrated to pakistan??

the fact is in indian history most of the time, sub continent was divided into different ethnic entities, with every rajah ruling separate state, if british had to conspire to breed muslim league just to divide india, then they could have easily divided the india into different states..

i for the first time heard this javed guy and with his BS about pakistan, i say to give kindly F off, u have no rights to pass derogatory remarks esp with little understanding of what BS you are believing in

indian concept of secularism has always changed, indian hasnt been tolerant enough like its now, in the past the discriminations against the minority religions have followed, discriminations against muslims have followed, shabana azmi his own wife was denied to own an apartment in mumbai just because she was a muslim...
 
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Virendra

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You are undoing yourself my friend. If you can't hear things about Pakistan, don't be saying about India then. Its so easy you know, to read one incident in newspaper and paste your mindset about an entire society or country on its basis. Horrendously stupid logical jump and over generalization it is. I can give you 1000 times more cases of the liberty and fundamental rights muslims and anyone else for that matter enjoys in this country, than the cases of discrimination you would give me. If discrimination were so rampant, count me the number of muslims who left India and came to Pakistan, post independence.
I don't say this is a perfect place, there is no such thing, but we live by a secular code here.
The occasional riots happen here, but they do because the people of all religions have the liberty to fight, if you know what I mean. And its back to business for everyone once the furor of few insane maniacs is over. I wish you could come and see to understand what it is like. Don't know what your propaganda sponsored media is feeding to you. But right now, more than India you need to worry about whats happening in Pakistan. Save your country.

Regards,
Virendra
 

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indian concept of secularism has always changed, indian hasnt been tolerant enough like its now, in the past the discriminations against the minority religions have followed, discriminations against muslims have followed, shabana azmi his own wife was denied to own an apartment in mumbai just because she was a muslim...
NOM my friend but statistically speaking if you see events in both countries since 1947, you will see that more muslims have been killed in pakistan in name of sunni/shia and moderate/hardcore than in India. Before you speak of Gujarat/Kashmir you should give a thought on number in 1971 too. You have got internet with you, figure out how many have been killed in 1980's, how many in last 10yrs.

And like most pakistanis you may not have a clue about condition of Hindus in pakistan. So before raising a finger against India please check 4 fingers pointing towards you,
 

chex3009

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pakistanis need not support of a foreign nation to support its foundations, alhamdulilah pakistanis are enuf to guarentee the cause of pakistan...
Thats the reason you people go begging to your dominators, the US and your masters China everytime you need money. Atleast we people live on our own, what we call "SWABHIMAAN" (Self-REspect).

While on the other hand, India has its own foreign policy, independent of any power bloc. We don't fear pakistan in any sense, its just that a messy country is creating big mess in our nighbourhood which any decent country could be worried of. Keep on countinuing your current activities and you will see where you people reach.
 
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JBH22

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Javed sahab just ripped the guy a new one.





You think the RSS is not a fascist organization? You need to revisit your definition of 'fascism' if you do not.

Btw, I've been told I'm a lil bit fascist leaning myself. But my 'fascism' is more intergrationist, as opposed to dichotomising and espouses unionism based on supra-religious principles.

P.S. Even the National Socialist Workers' Party (the Nazi party) did tremendous charity work.
You're most welcome to have your definition and i'm better off with mine as of today the RSS has not been engage in extermination of any minority so your comparison with Nazis is useless.The RSS has always been at the forefront when the country needed it and i don't buy the sh!t sold by some so called intellectuals,sickularist.

So RSS talks about infusing physical strength in HINDUS i don't see anything wrong in that they talk about standing against islamist what's wrong in that?
I believe that all people regardless of their religion are free to practice their religion in India but my problem is that when fundamentalist target hindus with their "holier than thou" attitude calling us infidels that pisses me off.
Finally i'm a hindu and proud to be so this doesn't make me a racist or not secular because these days hate HINDUS means secularism.
 

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we pakistanis dont care what this hinduized javed akhter thinks about pakistan, what derogatory remarks he can pass to quaid e azam and compare humiliatingly to RSS etc etc. the guy says quaid e azam was not religious??, and the reason is quaid used to drink and eat and blah blah, it doesnt men that not pretending to be religious doesnt make a person a non religious at heart...

javed said pakistan was made by jagirdars and waderas, so what about the support of indian muslims??, who gave support to this RSS similar muslim league and even some of them migrated to pakistan??

the fact is in indian history most of the time, sub continent was divided into different ethnic entities, with every rajah ruling separate state, if british had to conspire to breed muslim league just to divide india, then they could have easily divided the india into different states..

i for the first time heard this javed guy and with his BS about pakistan, i say to give kindly F off, u have no rights to pass derogatory remarks esp with little understanding of what BS you are believing in

indian concept of secularism has always changed, indian hasnt been tolerant enough like its now, in the past the discriminations against the minority religions have followed, discriminations against muslims have followed, shabana azmi his own wife was denied to own an apartment in mumbai just because she was a muslim...
Mate we can only laugh at your ignorance. Its not your fault though. This is what you are taught in your school. Cooked up history books just lke the one that was reported just last week about the Bangladesh liberation. Jinnah drank wine and ate pork is common knowledge to all those who have independently written history book. If that comes as news to you, no one would be surprised. We can only but console and commiserate you for being ignorant.
 

Ray

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Mech e


Did you know that Jinnah drank the most expensive wines and hogged on pork and bacon?

Mr Akhtar does not.

Who is a better Muslim by the book?

Shabana Azmi may have been denied a flat, but are you aware that Gujarati buildings do not allow anyone who is a non vegetarian?

Discrimination, right?

Are you aware that in England, Asians are not given flats on rent?

Brick Lane is a Bangladeshi area in London and are you aware that the parts of London that are heavily populated by pakistanis are:
(1) the north bank of the Thames between the river and the M25, and
(2) the south bank of the Thames between the river and the M25.

why?

Discrimination?

Birds of a feather flock together!
 
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Ray

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Mech -e

Some urgent education for you.

Education in Pakistan = half-truths, even falsehoods.


Written by:
Nadeem F. Paracha
Dawn Newspaper

Pakistan is a multi-lingual, multi-ethnic and a multi-religious society. Non-Muslims are an integral part of it. Many of them have contributed to the country's image, stature and well-being. However, according to the scholar and educationist, Professor A. H. Nayyar, the culture, the idiom and the manners of Muslim 'majority-ism' started gaining currency after 1971 and, in turn, got reflected in the educational process. A certain brand of Muslim sensibilities was imposed on all.


Another educationist, Dr Rubina Saigol, suggests that the attempt to mould the minds of the young through textbooks started in earnest in the early 1980s with the political agenda of Islamisation of the state. The syllabus was redesigned and textbooks were rewritten to create a monolithic image of Pakistan as an Islamic state and Pakistani citizens as Muslims only. According to Saigol, this clearly tells young non-Muslim students that they are excluded from national identity.


In an extensive study conducted by Nayyar and Ahmad Salim, in 2002, the following four themes emerged most strongly in history textbooks in Pakistan: that Pakistan is for Muslims alone; the Ideology of Pakistan is deeply interlinked with faith; one should never trust Hindus and India; and students should take the path of Jihad and martyrdom.


Scholars like Ayesha Jalal and Pervez Hoodbhoy have argued that the term 'Ideology of Pakistan (Islam)' is an after-thought; it was absent at the time of the creation of Pakistan. According to them Jinnah never used the words 'Ideology of Pakistan' (especially in respect to Islam). For fifteen years after the establishment of Pakistan, the Ideology of Pakistan was not known to anybody, until in 1962 some members of the Jamat-i-Islami used the words for the first time. The 'Ideology of Pakistan' had no historical basis in the Pakistan movement. It was coined much later by those political forces that needed it to sanctify their particular brand of politics — especially those Islamist parties which had earlier been against the creation of Pakistan. Even though in a report the famous Justice Munir strongly noted that Jinnah never uttered the words 'Ideology of Pakistan,' the curriculum documents insist that the students be taught the Ideology of Pakistan that was laid down by the Quaid.


No textbook has ever been able to cite a single reference to Jinnah using the term. On the contrary, Mr Jinnah's speech to the Constituent Assembly on the 11th of September, 1947, completely defies the so-called 'ideology', as it has come to be presented in textbooks. It was during the Islamisation era of General Ziaul Haq that the use of the term was consolidated and made to appear in the curriculum documents. It was also firmly turned into an article of faith.


Nayyar, Jalal, Hoodbhoy and Saigol suggest that associated with the 'Ideology of Pakistan' is an essential component of hate against India and Hindus. Some time after Pakistan's defeat in the 1971 war, Indo-Pakistan history was replaced with Pakistan Studies, whose sole purpose was to define Pakistan as an Islamic state. Students were deprived of learning about pre-Islamic history of their region. Instead, history books now started with the Arab conquest of Sindh and swiftly jumped to the Muslim conquerors from Central Asia.


Nayyar and Salim have pointed out the following examples of the expression of hate in post-1971 history textbooks: that: Hindus have always been an enemy of Islam; Hindus worship in temples which are very narrow and dark places, where they worship idols; Hindus declared Congress rule as the Hindu rule, and started to unleash terror on Muslims; Hindus always desired to crush Muslims as a nation; Gandhi was as an extremist.


What's more all history in these books is along religious lines while social, historical, material and economic causes are missing. After 1979, the themes of Jihad and martyrdom in textbooks become strong. In this period, history and social study books eulogise Jihad and martyrdom. According to Nayyar, in Pakistan the impression one gets from Pakistan Studies textbooks is that the students don't learn history, but rather a carefully crafted collection of half-truths, even falsehoods. For example, in these books, Muhammad bin Qasim is declared the first Pakistani citizen. The story of the Arabs' arrival in Sindh is accounted as the first move towards Pakistan with the glorious ascendancy of Islam. A widely taught history book insists that, 'Although Pakistan was created in August 1947, present-day Pakistan has existed, as a more or less single entity, for centuries.'


Both Nayyar and Salim conclude that one should not be surprised at the irrational hate and confusion that ensconce Pakistani children after what they have learnt in school.
education-in-pakistan-half-truths-even-falsehoods
 

Ray

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Some more for you:

http://www.muziqpakistan.com/board/index.php?showtopic=10122

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/htm...00303110025.asp

Slouching toward fanaticism in Pakistan

President Bush's comparison of the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (reputed to have planned the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon) to the liberation of Paris in 1944 was certainly hyperbolic, but the arrest was a political blessing for the U.S. president all the same. For Pakistan's Gen. Pervez Musharaf, Mohammed's apprehension is a mixed bag: It gained a pat on the back from Bush but simultaneously revealed the falsity of Musharaf's claims that Pakistan is largely al-Qaida free. Indeed, it is now starkly apparent that much of al-Qaida and its top leadership prefer refuge in Pakistan to any other place.
The reason would be obvious to anyone who witnessed the recent "million man march" in Karachi organized by Pakistan's newly formed coalition of religious parties, known as the MMA. Called to protest America's impending attack on Iraq, marchers set effigies of George W. Bush and Tony Blair on fire as smiling portraits of Osama bin Laden, draped with fresh flowers, looked on. Speaker after speaker accused Musharaf's government of treachery and denounced its cooperation with the FBI in nabbing al-Qaida members.

Before the terrorist attacks on America and the ouster of the Taliban in next-door Afghanistan, Pakistan's religious parties had few seats in either the federal or provincial assemblies. Resentment against the United States after the bombing of Afghanistan rocketed the religious alliance's popularity sky-high. The religious alliance has now formed governments in two of Pakistan's four provinces, the Frontier and Baluchistan, and openly declares its intent to shatter Pakistan's pro-American policy.

The rise of the MMA is sure to make a fundamental change upon not only Pakistani foreign policy but also upon the country's society and culture. Almost immediately after assuming office, the new governments ordered an end to music in public transport, required public buses to stand still for the five daily prayers, and closed down video shops and cinema houses. Folk singers have been threatened, abducted, and forbidden to perform in public. Cable television operators see their premises ransacked.

More of this awaits. New laws, expected to be passed by the Frontier Assembly soon, follow the lead of Afghanistan's former Taliban government. For example, women without "hijab" and a chaperone may not leave their homes; shops shall not advertise the sale of sanitary pads or undergarments; hair-removing creams and lotions may not be sold; use of perfume and makeup will be banned; women will not be allowed to use male tailors; male doctors may not treat women patients; women guests at hotels will not be allowed in the swimming pool; coeducation has been identified as a cause of fornication and is to be phased out; family planning shall be declared un-Islamic, and the sale of contraceptives banned.

Driven by its compulsion to make war on Iraq at all costs, Washington has shown little inclination to consider the war's long-term impact on countries lying at the periphery of the war zone. In a special trip to Islamabad, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christina Rocca sought to reassure a visibly nervous Pakistani government that the war would be "quick and short."

Even if Rocca is right, the anger flowing in Pakistan's streets will drastically weaken moderate opinion while further radicalizing Islamic groups. However, if the war drags on, if Baghdad comes under siege with heavy civilian casualties - or if weapons of mass destruction are actually used - all bets could be off. Mounting anger within the Pakistan army, whose soldiers exchanged fire with American troops two months ago, would make Musharaf's isolation total, perhaps forcing him to abandon the American-led coalition.

To appease radical opinion, Islamic militant leaders who were jailed a year ago are now operating freely again. A taped speech by the released head of the Lashkar-i-Tayyaba, Hafiz Saeed, was played on Kashmir Day at mosques in Rawalpindi. Lashing out at India and America, the firebrand cleric rhetorically asked: "Allah has told us to make atom bombs. America is telling us not to. O Muslims, to whom shall we listen, Allah or America?"

Meanwhile, across the border in Afghanistan, U.S. forces are experiencing frequent ambushes and rocket attacks upon their bases. This has led to aggressive U.S. army sweeps, backed in some cases by heavy bombers.

The heightened activity, much of it concentrated along the Pakistani border, suggests that some of Pakistan's army intelligence officers have resumed their support of the Taliban and its friends. Waiting for spring to come is ex-mujahideen commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar - a former favorite of the CIA and Pakistan's ISI during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. He is massing his forces and weapons for a determined strike against American forces. Hekmatyar and al-Qaida expect their task to be easier since the enemy is likely to have its attention focused on Iraq.

Fighting terror backed by radical Islam requires a sophisticated understanding of its political and economic roots. America's plan to liberate Iraq with cruise missiles betrays not only crude ignorance, but also a lack of will to try and deal with the causes of terrorism. America's strategic myopia may well provide bin Laden and his kind with a fresh flood of recruits and make Pakistan, the Islamic world's only nuclear-armed state, ungovernable.



Pervez Hoodbhoy, one of Pakistan's leading pro-democracy advocates, teaches physics at Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad. - Ed.


(Copyright: Project Syndicate)


By Pervez Hoodbhoy
 

Ray

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Mech -e,

A must read for you.

The Subtle Subversion
The State of
Curricula and Textbooks
in Pakistan
Urdu, English, Social Studies and Civics
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT POLICY INSTITUTE
Editors: A. H. Nayyar and Ahmad Salim

Contents
Preface i
Summary v
Recommendations ix
Chapter 1 Introduction 1
Chapter 2 Insensitivity to the Religious Diversity of the Nation 9
A. H. Nayyar
Chapter 3 Historical Falsehoods and Inaccuracies 63
Ahmad Salim
Chapter 4 Omissions That Could Have Been Enriching 73
S. Khurshid Hasanain
Chapter 5 Glorification of War and the Military 79
A. H. Nayyar and Ahmad Salim
Chapter 6 Class & Gender in School Texts 91
Aamna Mattu and Neelam Hussain
Chapter 7 Primary Education:A Critique of the Curriculum 101
Mohammad Pervez
Chapter 8 Teaching Human Rights 107
Syed Jaffar Ahmad
Short Notes
Note 1 Teaching of Urdu, Class 6 to 10 119
Tariq Rahman
Note 2 Teaching Social Studies, Class 6 to 10 123
Hajra Ahmad
Note 3 Peace Studies: a proposed program of studies in schools 127
Zarina Salmat
Note 4 Thoughts on Curriculum Objectives 131
Appendices
I: Curriculum Documents Covered 135
II: List of participants in the project 137

http://www.sdpi.org/whats_new/reporton/State of Curr&TextBooks.pdf
I hope all this educates you and remove the cobwebs spun over your eyes, ears and head!

It was written by PAKISTANIS!
 

shuvo@y2k10

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moral of the story is pakistan is the biggest failed state in the world whose economy runs by begging aid from US,CHINA.
 
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Tshering22

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The RSS may have done "charity work", but so does the SIMI have claim to doing "charity work". Are you going to brand them an inclusionist organization based on that?
SIMI's charity included blowing bombs all over the country that uses shrapnel such as nails and marbles to hurt people. How many bombs has RSS blown and how many buildings has RSS brought down? Only ALLEGATIONS have been made by political opponents to show the agency down. Other than that, even the law has proven them not guilty of terrorism. You still want to compare RSS to SIMI? A typical excuse of pseudo-secularists to defend their foreign-backed votebanks. Have you ever wondered why I myself being a technical minority am saying this? Think about it.

I am sorry to hear your condition in the north east. And as a secular, not "sickular, suckular, sucular" or whatever kinds of pseudonyms people can come up with, I am truly sorry to hear that. But that does not justify the fact that the RSS is an integrationist organization.
Sorry isn't the word enough to make all our aches go away. The government is given taxes from our side to protect us; I have 3 brothers in the armed forces who risk their neck everytime these so called "mis-guided innocent youths" decide to go bomb happy. Having family in nationalist societies to know their truth deep enough is very different from those who have families in institutions following same nobles ideologies and who genuinely risk their necks for the nation unlike the "sorry" that your India-style secular (not genuine meaning of secularism which is "separating religion from state" and not specific appeasement). We don't want your sorry because we are not some hapless beggars. We want action.. And we rely on this bloody government by paying our taxes and don't take the law in our hands because we have a respect for the national setup. In the past when the so-called "secular" leaders have run away with tails between their legs, our people have tackled menace far superior alongside foot soldiers of Indian army shoulder to shoulder with whatever meagre resources our villages had then. And it doesn't take us long to take weapons and start doing clean up again.

But we expect the government to do it because it is their duty and dharma to do what it right.

Chidambaram is shameless to declare the "color" of terror much before even the judiciary had declared it, but has no words to say apart from "we condemn terrorism" when it comes to some other specific communities. This.. is pseudo-secularism and an insult to national oneness. Rahul Gandhi's pathetic comments is another proof of how much that Italian knows about this country, its culture, the concept of our way of life and his interest in this country apart from power.

Our standard for democracy, is not the Middle east.
Israel, Russia, Singapore, United States, France, Switzerland are also democracies and FAR MORE transparent and genuine democracies than us. Democracy doesn't mean cowering in front of a bunch of whining votebanks. That is anarchy. Lot of difference.
 

mech-e

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Thats the reason you people go begging to your dominators, the US and your masters China everytime you need money. Atleast we people live on our own, what we call "SWABHIMAAN" (Self-REspect).

While on the other hand, India has its own foreign policy, independent of any power bloc. We don't fear pakistan in any sense, its just that a messy country is creating big mess in our nighbourhood which any decent country could be worried of. Keep on countinuing your current activities and you will see where you people reach.

sweet words from you, as expected keep it comin

btw pakistanis have got much more self respect than you can ever imagine..

we are not getting aids, we are just being paid for the servce we are giving to americans in their war on terror simple as that, if india was inplace of pakistan it would be doing much more than 'begging' to except such a money in a war war situation..so be careful now before you mention the 'begging' next time..
 

The Messiah

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we pakistanis dont care what this hinduized javed akhter thinks about pakistan, what derogatory remarks he can pass to quaid e azam and compare humiliatingly to RSS etc etc. the guy says quaid e azam was not religious??, and the reason is quaid used to drink and eat and blah blah, it doesnt men that not pretending to be religious doesnt make a person a non religious at heart...

javed said pakistan was made by jagirdars and waderas, so what about the support of indian muslims??, who gave support to this RSS similar muslim league and even some of them migrated to pakistan??

the fact is in indian history most of the time, sub continent was divided into different ethnic entities, with every rajah ruling separate state, if british had to conspire to breed muslim league just to divide india, then they could have easily divided the india into different states..

i for the first time heard this javed guy and with his BS about pakistan, i say to give kindly F off, u have no rights to pass derogatory remarks esp with little understanding of what BS you are believing in

indian concept of secularism has always changed, indian hasnt been tolerant enough like its now, in the past the discriminations against the minority religions have followed, discriminations against muslims have followed, shabana azmi his own wife was denied to own an apartment in mumbai just because she was a muslim...
:emot15:

what can one do except laugh at this nonsense ? he is clearly brainwashed person and there's no point in reasoning with him.
 

SpArK

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Though not fully agreeing to his understanding and his opinion on RSS , i must admit that it was nonetheless, a classic interview. The host who was keen on embarrassing got himself dwarfed by Javed. The reply regarding Jinnah's secular projection was rebutted by Javed in a very convincing way which has left the host speechless for a few seconds and had to make a comeback saying something really stupid.

And kudos to ejazr for digging up another gem of a thread.
 

karra

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indians..always obsessd with words like failed state/partition/artifcial state etc etc its like you want us to feel connection with you we never had .i am punjabi en i can damn wel say dat vast majority of indian are alien to me ..have nothing in commen with most indian zo where does this talk of nation or so comes from?i mean india a nation??we can aswell call afrika a nation
 

Oracle

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indians..always obsessd with words like failed state/partition/artifcial state etc etc its like you want us to feel connection with you we never had .i am punjabi en i can damn wel say dat vast majority of indian are alien to me ..have nothing in commen with most indian zo where does this talk of nation or so comes from?i mean india a nation??
I know it hurts, but we would not have given a damn about Pakistan, if Pakistan would not have adopted Terrorism as a state policy to bleed India. Look at where your Pakistan is today? For the last couple of years, Pakistan is in the Top 10 among failed & dangerous countries. Does that make you happy? If so, then yes you too are among those delusional Pakistanis who have been brought up with sermons filled with anti India chants. As about being a Punjabi, you are a Pakistani first. That's your Nationality, well er! if the word "Nation" still applies after some more years.

we can aswell call afrika a nation
Africa is a Continent, if I may well add to your sea of Geography!
 

smartindian

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indians..always obsessd with words like failed state/partition/artifcial state etc etc its like you want us to feel connection with you we never had .i am punjabi en i can damn wel say dat vast majority of indian are alien to me ..have nothing in commen with most indian zo where does this talk of nation or so comes from?i mean india a nation??we can aswell call afrika a nation
a countryman who does not want to use is own country flag, hides behind other country's flag. is now perching India and Indian, pakistan is a failed state ,world is saying , pakistan will disintegrate if presents situation continues, pakistan is a cancer to the world . this are the word used by west to describe pakistan, why are you blaming us for your own failures
 

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