Japanese may sell sea rescue aircraft US-2 to India

[arnabmit]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Jet engines mean more operational costs.

SAR aircrafts do not require missiles.

U2 can fly 1200Km more than the Be-200. So, would not need extra fuel tanks. U2 can basically fly from Andaman to Okinawa nonstop with internal fuel alone.

Plus it can handle (Take off and land) 3m waves.

this looks much better,

it have jet engines , and room for hard points for fuel tanks,missiles

unlike u2,there is no room for extra hard points because of its engines.

 

[ninja85]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

U2 can fly 1200Km more than the Be-200.

that's one major advantage.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

It suit exactly our needs, BA-200 is not design for military purpose and not reliable in harsh conditions but US-2 is a military grade design aircraft for specific SAR and transport duties under harsh sea conditions ..

IN pilots indeed ..

@Ray @Decklander @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd

Is US-2 the best in its category, or most suited to our requirements ? None of the alternatives ( if any ? ) are worth consideration ?

IN pilots are going to operate it ?

 

[charlie]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

A 40 was the military purpose aircraft

Beriev Aircraft Company

It's sad that Russia could not continue with this project or it would have changed the scenario of wars

EKRANOPLAN-part 1/3 (Caspian Sea Monster) - YouTube

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

India, Japan officials' meet on amphibious aircraft on December 23


NEW DELHI: India's ambitious mission to have an amphibious aircraft in its navy is likely to move a step forward when an Indo-Japan Joint Working Group (JWG) meets later this month to decide on the modalities of its induction.

The options to be discussed include outright purchase of the aircraft or joint manufacturing or a combination of both.

The JWG meeting, expected on December 23, will be the second since September 12 and is likely to be followed by another high-level meeti ..

Read more at:
India, Japan officials' meet on amphibious aircraft on December 23 - The Economic Times

 

[arnabmit]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Off-topic...

Since Japan is opening up to India, maybe ADA can rope in Mitsubishi's ATD-X program to help with AMCA?


Mitsubishi ATD-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the only program in the same class worldwide which is at an more advanced stage than AMCA.

 

[Kyubi]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Off-topic...

Since Japan is opening up to India, maybe ADA can rope in Mitsubishi's ATD-X program to help with AMCA?


Mitsubishi ATD-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the only program in the same class worldwide which is at an more advanced stage than AMCA.

Well sir i had thought about this earlier but never brought to notice in this forum. Also i was little skeptical since ATD-x program is in advanced stage and any collaboration with the AMCA project might just delay it(AMCA) further same as in FGFA, another point is till now the kind of co-operation that exists between India and Japan is merely restricted to providing monetary aid to infrastructures projects , to think of engaging in a R&D collaboration is IMHO a step to far given Japan's self imposed arms trade ban... Even for the sake of argument if Japan does engage in R&D collaboration they might not commit to 100% involvement, they might argue that our military industrial complex is not as advanced as there's and our lack of a robust semiconductor industry

 

[arnabmit]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Well sir i had thought about this earlier but never brought to notice in this forum. Also i was little skeptical since ATD-x program is in advanced stage and any collaboration with the AMCA project might just delay it(AMCA) further same as in FGFA, another point is till now the kind of co-operation that exists between India and Japan is merely restricted to providing monetary aid to infrastructures projects , to think of engaging in a R&D collaboration is IMHO a step to far given Japan's self imposed arms trade ban... Even for the sake of argument if Japan does engage in R&D collaboration they might not commit to 100% involvement, they might argue that our military industrial complex is not as advanced as there's and our lack of a robust semiconductor industry

That is why we can gain a lot from them. Japan has ban on arms trade, not RnD, AFAIK!

 

[Kranthi]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Military and technical cooperation between India and Japan could be promising - News - Society - Russian Radio


India and Japan intend to promote defence cooperation. This was stated by the heads of government of the two countries at a news conference soon after their meeting in Tokyo on Monday.

"From this day on, Prime Minister Modi and I will work hand-in-hand to dramatically strengthen relations in every field and elevate ties to a special, strategic global partnership," Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said.
"We intend to give new thrust and direction to our defence cooperation, including collaboration in defence technology and equipment," Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said.

India is the acknowledged leader in software. Japan is famous for producing complicated electronic chips. Consequently, mutual cooperation between the two countries could be quite promising, says editor-in-chief of the "National Defence" Russian magazine Igor Korotchenko.

"Japan is one of the leaders in the high-technology area, including defence technology. Reportedly, Japan is participating in the American missile defence programme. The potential of Japan's military industrial complex is quite high. Consequently, cooperation with Japan for India, country with high geopolitical ambitions and which is interested in strengthening its military potential, could be interesting from the standpoint of getting access to advanced military technologies to solve its geopolitical tasks," Korotchenko said.

As the first step in the way towards promoting military and technical cooperation, the prime ministers of the two countries agreed on the supply of ShinMaywa US-2 Japanese amphibious aircraft designed for sea-air rescue operations to India. Significantly, the Japanese aircraft easily won India's tender offer. In fact, the participants of the tender were Canada's Bombardier Aerospace with Bombardier 415, Russia's Beriev Corporation with Be-200 amphibian aircraft and American Dornier Seaplane with the SeaStar CD2 project. The success of the Japanese aircraft was determined by its unique characteristics. The Japanese plane is a 43-ton amphibian equipped with four turboprop engines and is capable of lifting off from high seas up to 5 points on the scale. Here is an opinion from Igor Korotchenko.

"India is diversifying weapons and military hardware purchasing sources. As it establishes partnership relations with various countries, India choses the segments that could produce tangible results. In case of Japan, it is India's consistent policy to get access to military products the production of which is interesting for the Indian army," Korotchenko said.

The Japanese amphibious plane will be modernized up to US2i with the participation of Indian specialists. India plans to buy 15 amphibious aircraft. The first two will be assembled at ShinMaywa facilities, while the rest at Indian enterprises from the components supplied from Japan.

India might show interest in Japan's naval developments. All classes of ships, including aircraft carriers could be built at Japanese shipyards. Most likely, Japan will participate in the forthcoming Indian tender for non-atomic submarines of the Project 711. At present, the Soryu Class diesel-electric submarine is the world's best. It is equipped with advanced electronic systems capable of covering the undersea and over sea situation. These submarines are adapted to carry out military missions in shallow water areas, as well as in deep oceans. This is very important for India as these submarines could be equipped with BrahMos missiles.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Navy's US-2i amphibian order to move to DAC​

After confusion over who would decide the commercial aspects of the order, the case is set to move to the Defense Acquisitions Council (DAC), headed by the defense minister, for Acceptance of Necessity (AoN).


The Indian Navy's plan to procure the amphibious Japanese ShinMaywa US-2i aircraft, under discussion for some time now, finally seems to be making some headway.

After confusion over who would decide the commercial aspects of the order, the defense ministry appears to have resolved the issues and are set to turn over the case to the Defense Acquisitions Council (DAC), headed by the defense minister, for Acceptance of Necessity (AoN).

The two countries have been discussing the planned procurement by the Indian Navy through a Joint Working Group (JWG) since November 2013, which was considering the Indian order for US-2i aircraft, and other technical and commercial cooperation in the aeronautics sector. The JWG has held three meetings and six sub-committee meetings, so far.

But the order was also under consideration by the Indian defense ministry's Services Capital Acquisition Plan Committee (SCAPC), which considers procurement cases under the five-year Services Capital Acquisition Plan (SCAP). The defense ministry was keen that the process under the Defense Procurement Procedure (DPP) of 2013 for seeking AoN be followed first .

Confusion had arisen over whether the commercial aspects of the order, such as appointment of domestic partners, licensed production and transfer of technology would be decided by the intergovernmental JWG or mandated by the DPP of 2013. But discussions between inter-governmental agencies and the Indian Navy finally seem to be resolved the issue and the case is now expected to be recommended for DAC approval.

It now seems that the selection of domestic partnerships, for instance, have been left to the discretion of the JWG and the Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) without being nominated, decided and mandated by the defense ministry, as has been done in some earlier cases.

The JWG is mandated with discussing all aspects of the proposed order and in that sense, the commercial aspects, too, could be expected to come under its terms of reference.

But the procurement of aircraft from Japan is a case sui generis. This is the first time since the Second World War that Japan has approved the export of defense-related technologies and is also of strategic significance considering attempts by both, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Prime Minister Narendra Modi to build closer relations between the two countries. The usual procurement practices may not, then, apply and even the DPP allows for such deviations.

The removal of confusion over these commercial aspects is expected to speed up the estimated USD 1.65 billion order for 15 aircraft, which is expected to provide enhanced enhanced fleet support, disaster relief, island support, search and rescue, interception and interdiction capability in rough seas to the Indian Navy, and could resolve incidents like the New Year's Eve attempted infiltration of an alleged Pakistani terror boat around Indian waters.

The progress of the case was also discussed by Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida in a meeting held on Saturday in New Delhi.

Navy's US-2i amphibian order to move to DAC | StratPost

 

[cobra commando]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

US-2i aircraft plan moves forward

February 02, 2015: The Indian Navy is progressing its effort to acquire 12 Japanese-built Shimaywa US-2i amphibious aircraft. The $1.65 billion deal for a dozen specialised jets is being progressed as part of the Services Capital Acquisition Plan (SCAP) for 2015 at the MoD. Indian and Japanese teams, part of a working group set up with former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited Japan in May 2013, are currently working out the modalities of what will be Japan's first defence export to India, a milestone event for a country that constitutionally bars the export of military technology. The visit of PM Modi to Japan last year has stepped up momentum on the deal, with the possibility of at least a draft final agreement this year. The Indian Navy needs the aircraft for a variety of missions, including surveillance around its island territories, specifically the Andaman & Nicobar Islands where the first fleet of aircraft are likely to be based. It is also understood that the Indian Navy's full requirement will be a larger number, which will be communicated once the first deal is finalised and all financial, technology and assembly details are fully worked out. Officially, the Navy requires the aircraft for search and rescue missions, inter- island communication, rapid response duties and reconnaissance of islands, but also as an offset to China's growing strength at the north end of the Andaman islands.
US 2i aircraft plan moves forward - SP’s Exculsive

 

[SajeevJino]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

Aero India 2015: ShinMaywa confident of progress on US-2 sale to India​

ShinMaywa officials at Aero India 2015 believe that Japanese and Indian government support for the sale of 12 US-2 amphibian aircraft to the Indian Navy (IN) means it should overcome delays that could threaten the deal.

The IN requirement for a long-range search-and-rescue platform, first mooted in 2012, is awaiting approval by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), which has to approve all programmes before contract negotiations can begin.

Senior IN officers told IHS Jane's in January that the USD1.65 billion US-2i procurement featured "prominently" in the Services Capital Acquisition Categorisation Committee (SCAPCC) meeting at the Integrated Services Headquarters in New Delhi on 31 December 2014.

All major Indian materiel acquisition proposals are mandatorily routed through the SCAPCC by the respective service headquarters.

Partha Dutta Roy, ShinMaywa's senior manager in charge of sales and business development in India, told IHS Jane's on 18 February that "a fair amount of work has been done" on outlining the various elements of the proposed deal so that work can move ahead quickly once DAC approval is given.

A joint working group set up in 2014 to expedite the acquisition has held a number of meetings that have prepared the groundwork for transfer of technology, offsets and contract negotiations, Roy said at the biennial defence show in Bangalore.

The IN plans to directly import two US-2is and assembling and licence building the remaining 10 in collaboration with a private-sector Indian manufacturer.

IN officials have previously said the service anticipates increasing the number of platforms it buys as its operational requirements and those of the Indian Coast Guard (ICG) are rapidly expanding in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

Roy said the 47-tonne US-2i, powered by four Rolls Royce AE-2100J turboprop engines and with an operational range of 4,700 km, can "reach wherever you are in the IOR in three hours max".

Unlike helicopters, "it's not limited by sea state or range", Roy said, making it "the ideal platform for replenishment and long-range search and rescue".

Aero India 2015: ShinMaywa confident of progress on US-2 sale to India - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Compersion]

Re: In a first, Japan offers to sell aircraft to India

i get feeling that we might get overwhelmed with a lot of sudden announcements (all over the place) in around march period and send some people into (super) enlightenment ... sometimes the patience and wait can get on the nerves

but all good things take time :thumb:

 

[cobra commando]

Aero India: Amphibian SAR aircraft to be built in India - News - Shephard

 

[grampiguy]

Something is missing in this aircraft contract story. India wants to buy this aircraft ASAP, Japan wants to sell it ASAP. Then why is the contract not coming to completion? I don't see any price issue and there are many companies eager to grab its production contract in India. On top, Modi is in love with Japan and Shinzo Abe with India. Then, where is the missing piece?

Is there something which both sides are not saying? What is the issue stuck on?

 

[Arjun25]

India-Japan $1.6 billion Deal For ShinMaywa US-2 Aircraft To Be Back On Track

 

[busesaway]

I hope Japan opens up its military industry to India. The country has sound military production companies and is a major military power; it it becomes more militarized, India might have a new best ally too!

This would promote my idea that India shouldn't rely on one import partner but actually diversify, and prefer equipment built on national soil. I'm unsure as to whether "NATO" should be treated as one block for the purposes of diversification...

 

[sorcerer]

I'm unsure as to whether "NATO" should be treated as one block for the purposes of diversification...

India already is a strong ally of Japan and Japan - India is countering china big way already.


Oh..bad..thats bad.
If NATO is treated as one block..then INDIA's defence purchase would be soon portrayed as in the NATO BLOCK by parties with vested interests.

Is that what is china selling today!! NATO BLOCK purchase vs NON NATO block Purchase.

India is dealing on technology with Individual nations and thats soo right and free about it. India does Govt to Govt not Govt to terrorist(china to pak) or Govt to NATO defense deals.

 

[busesaway]

India already is a strong ally of Japan and Japan - India is countering china big way already.


Oh..bad..thats bad.
If NATO is treated as one block..then INDIA's defence purchase would be soon portrayed as in the NATO BLOCK by parties with vested interests.

Is that what is china selling today!! NATO BLOCK purchase vs NON NATO block Purchase.

India is dealing on technology with Individual nations and thats soo right and free about it. India does Govt to Govt not Govt to terrorist(china to pak) or Govt to NATO defense deals.

I support India's "special relationship" with Japan. I think Japan should become India's strongest ally. The two nations are already among the most favored nation by each country's populace and the two have a long history of amicable friendship. A strong military alliance would counter any cultural hegemony that develops from friendly ties with western nations too.

India is not a member of the UN Security Council, and is also a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Pakistan is a [forced] member of NATO, but India and China are not.

I don't think India should fear China that much. The main point of concern is Pakistan, and both the United States and NATO have been holding back from defending India against Pakistan.

I think too many on this forum see China as too "evil" a threat, when in reality the threat is solvable though diplomatic processes (unlike Pakistan or Palestine) - though the focus of dialogue shouldn't be on border disputes, since border disputes are still ongoing concerns in developed western places such as Europe.

I worry about a possibly turning into a literal "tributary" or "vassal" or "colony" of NATO or the United States. Regardless of what the media might say, India is still a major economic rival to the EU and USA.

 

[DingDong]

I support India's "special relationship" with Japan. I think Japan should become India's strongest ally. The two nations are already among the most favored nation by each country's populace and the two have a long history of amicable friendship. A strong military alliance would counter any cultural hegemony that develops from friendly ties with western nations too.

India is not a member of the UN Security Council, and is also a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Pakistan is a [forced] member of NATO, but India and China are not.

I don't think India should fear China that much. The main point of concern is Pakistan, and both the United States and NATO have been holding back from defending India against Pakistan.

I think too many on this forum see China as too "evil" a threat, when in reality the threat is solvable though diplomatic processes (unlike Pakistan or Palestine) - though the focus of dialogue shouldn't be on border disputes, since border disputes are still ongoing concerns in developed western places such as Europe.

I worry about a possibly turning into a literal "tributary" or "vassal" or "colony" of NATO or the United States. Regardless of what the media might say, India is still a major economic rival to the EU and USA.

You must read India's Foreign Policy guidelines which have been redefined by the current government. India no longer seeks long-term defense/strategic alliances with select nations. Rather, India will prefer broader issue-based engagement with countries whose interests converge with ours'. We have collaborated with both China and the US when and where our national interests converged and we will continue to do so in future.

You read the general sentiments on this forum incorrectly. China is a Rival, Pakistan is an enemy. India and China have collaborated over more number of issues than we have fought over, the most recent being the Climate Change.

China is a rising power and it's ambitions have destabilizing effect in South Asia, our backyard.

There is little likelihood of India turning into a vassal state, India strives to become a major global power.

India doesn't view Japan as a reliable strategic partner because of Japan's diplomatic Somersaults in past. However, Japan is viewed favorably in India primarily because Japan has always been a major donor, investor and trading partner.