Japanese help in breaking string of pearls stratagem

[Adioz]

Japan is an ally of India. It is also highly dependent on trade routes through Indian ocean. Understandably, it has made India a cornerstone in its counter-China policy. It means that the Japanese plan to help India in establishing and maintaining its supreme control over Indian Ocean. This is Japan's best bet against Chinese influence in IOR. Towards this end, it should be obvious that Japan needs to help India in countering China, and the best way to do that, is to throw its economic heft and geopolitical clout behind India's, to effectively counter Chinese investment in South Asia. In other words, where Indian investment alone cannot match Chinese investment in BIMSTEC, the Japanese can help close the gap. This is the best way for India to counter string of pearls with the help of a reliable partner (instead of unreliable uncle sam).

This thread exists for the purpose of documenting and discussing such moves made by the Japanese.

 

[Adioz]

Japan keen on making Sri Lanka a centre for strategic maritime surveillance

Key takeaways:-

• JMSDF is the second most frequent visitor to Sri Lanka (second only to India).
• The 40 year old Colombo Dockyard Ltd (CDL), one of the most successful enterprises in Sri Lanka is a joint venture between the government of Sri Lanka and Onomichi Dockyard of Kobe, Japan.
• Japanese implored Sri-Lanka to become a member of Malabar exercises.
• Izumo will dock in Japan before Malabar-2017.
• Japanese propose to sell P3C Orions and OPVs to Sri Lanka.

 

[IndianHawk]

The best bet for both Japan and India is to formulate official quad of India USA Japan and Australia. This quad should literally take responsibility for freedom of navigation in Asia Pacific thus blowing Chinese air out of water:biggrin2:

Japan India could also lease a base in Singapore and guard Malacca starait from that base.

 

[Adioz]

The best bet for both Japan and India is to formulate official quad of India USA Japan and Australia. This quad should literally take responsibility for freedom of navigation in Asia Pacific thus blowing Chinese air out of water:biggrin2:

Japan India could also lease a base in Singapore and guard Malacca starait from that base.

Well, I am of the opinion that we need to keep USA out of such alliances. Japan and India need to lead such an alliance so that we are the ones in the driver seat, and not a pawn on some chessboard. US can be engaged bilaterally, but we need a multilateral effort based on India-Japan leadership. The health of India-Japan bilateral is critical for this to succeed.

 

[Willy2]

The best bet for both Japan and India is to formulate official quad of India USA Japan and Australia. This quad should literally take responsibility for freedom of navigation in Asia Pacific thus blowing Chinese air out of water:biggrin2:

Japan India could also lease a base in Singapore and guard Malacca starait from that base.

Joining of Uncle Sam will made it anti-Russia automatically , Help Chinese propaganda , that all of this is US conspiracy , rather USA we need local nation like Vietnam , Myanmar,SOKO , Australia etc

 

[IndianHawk]

Well, I am of the opinion that we need to keep USA out of such alliances. Japan and India need to lead such an alliance so that we are the ones in the driver seat, and not a pawn on some chessboard. US can be engaged bilaterally, but we need a multilateral effort based on India-Japan leadership. The health of India-Japan bilateral is critical for this to succeed.

Keeping china out of Indian ocean is a common agenda for USA and India. On other issues we can always differ but on this one we must cooperate. Japan is more comfortable against china with USA backing we must remember that.

Anyway at present neither India not Japan have naval power to cover the entire Indian ocean / Pacific pathways thus USA needs to be involved as a fulcrum.

We can only be in driver's seat when are the predominant economy and military force in the region that will take two decades till then we must tolerate the American presence(which I believe is beneficial for us in face of chinese rise) and focus on economic fruits of such stability.

 

[IndianHawk]

Joining of Uncle Sam will made it anti-Russia automatically , Help Chinese propaganda , that all of this is US conspiracy , rather USA we need local nation like Vietnam , Myanmar,SOKO , Australia etc

Russia has joined CPEC and is willing to join china in almost all programs.

The only problem with local nations is that they have no significant naval or air power.
And we can't finances them just yet.

 

[roma]

i voted for the fact that it is a partial help .....but every partial help adds up

the other partial help could come from indonesia ...... hey have a lot of naval choke points and if they really get angry with the regional bully, could ask india for help to do something

 

[Willy2]

Russia has joined CPEC and is willing to join china in almost all programs.

The only problem with local nations is that they have no significant naval or air power.
And we can't finances them just yet.

Russia invited by Chinese , they are't join yet , Russian spokesperson denied any of these .
Also Russia have no problem with counter china ally if US stay out of it .
And it's laughable if we say we , Japan , SOKO don't have money , nobody says to build NATO like full fledge military org where every member force to contribute . It will be more like a promise , with regular joint military exercise(twice a year) both land , air and sea .
Asking US to sort China is like asking another devil for help to driven existing devil , we are;t porki who think that they can live forever as slave , if we can't lead a small org , we should give up our hope of superpower

 

[I am otm shank]

Chinese string of pearls is aimed at India so only india can break it.

expecting someone to absorb your inherent threats to your sovereignty is not only a weakness but just a delusion that they'd defend you in a time of war..look at Taiwan. .it's even doubtful ameica would defend Phillipines over spratleys . why would a far weaker nation fight against the premier Asian power like China that's they're biggest economic partner when India has nothing to offer?

 

[IndianHawk]

Russia invited by Chinese , they are't join yet , Russian spokesperson denied any of these .
Also Russia have no problem with counter china ally if US stay out of it .
And it's laughable if we say we , Japan , SOKO don't have money , nobody says to build NATO like full fledge military org where every member force to contribute . It will be more like a promise , with regular joint military exercise(twice a year) both land , air and sea .
Asking US to sort China is like asking another devil for help to driven existing devil , we are;t porki who think that they can live forever as slave , if we can't lead a small org , we should give up our hope of superpower

Chinese string of pearls is aimed at India so only india can break it.

expecting someone to absorb your inherent threats to your sovereignty is not only a weakness but just a delusion that they'd defend you in a time of war..look at Taiwan. .it's even doubtful ameica would defend Phillipines over spratleys . why would a far weaker nation fight against the premier Asian power like China that's they're biggest economic partner when India has nothing to offer?

You guys are jumping guns. Who says we are going to outsource our security to US.
Nothing stops from developing our own strength regularly.

Alliances are only bonus points for us. Also remember as we grow stronger either we include other powerful nations into our orbit(including US ) or we alienate them and bacome the common new enemy for one and all just like china today.

Choice is very clear.

 

[captscooby81]

Well i will be bit wary about the indonesia with the way the country is heading into Radical islam its no more the country of Nehruvian NAM days .. Its more heading towards another Islamic state and the hate Radical islam spreads on the hindu s with especially kashmir is shown in muslim world as hindu oppression of the peaceful muslim kashmiri s ..But who knows i may be totally wrong also ....

i voted for the fact that it is a partial help .....but every partial help adds up

the other partial help could come from indonesia ...... hey have a lot of naval choke points and if they really get angry with the regional bully, could ask india for help to do something

 

[roma]

Chinese string of pearls is aimed at India so only india can break it.
expecting someone to absorb your inherent threats to your sovereignty is not only a weakness but just a delusion that they'd defend you in a time of war..look at Taiwan. .it's even doubtful ameica would defend Phillipines over spratleys . why would a far weaker nation fight against the premier Asian power like China that's they're biggest economic partner when India has nothing to offer?

Many of us will find it hard to agree with your idea of giving up before even having started
Remember rumour is that Churchill managed to drag usa into a war that wasn't really theirs
Also id like to ask if you've hear of marketing, commmuications, and persuasion?
It seems to me that you are not availing the nation of these areas to be used

I feel we CAN and MUSt use communications ( diplomacy ) and persuasion to get others to our point of view
that is not dependence in any way but rather a good use of our otherwise latent talent
and its a lot better than having the spirit of resignation which i seem to find in your post ...perhaps i am mistaken about that

and if you think asean countries like prcchina well then i dont think were on the same wavelength at all - no theyre forced to deal with them because the other possibilities are japanese or Korean products ,( too expensive) or Indian products ( often not delivered on time)

Well i will be bit wary about the indonesia with the way the country is heading into Radical islam its no more the country of Nehruvian NAM days .. Its more heading towards another Islamic state and the hate Radical islam spreads on the hindu s with especially kashmir is shown in muslim world as hindu oppression of the peaceful muslim kashmiri s ..But who knows i may be totally wrong also ....

firstly the current wave of islamic nationalisation which is at the durface these days is an internal matter where the local people of the capital city wanted to replace an ethnoc chinese indonesian with a muslim person ....it was a sense of threat that another ethniity was trying to take over them and so there was a reaction and the ulim lement is connet to that ....it is not an external muslimm brotherly linkage but totally internal affair

secondly even if there were religious sentiment and big talk about packland brother - that would still be fine and dandy

but when it comes to countering prcc aggression and occupation of Indonesian waters , then it is an entirely different story

They WILL run to usa japan India for assistance and we should price it at the right level, treat it as an economic transaction ( with some strategic bias ) and not free handouts as per JNeh's style

 

[no smoking]

Japan is an ally of India.

Since when? In which treaty, Japan and India promised each other the obligation as an alliance?

It is also highly dependent on trade routes through Indian ocean. Understandably, it has made India a cornerstone in its counter-China policy.

2 questions to ask yourselves:

1. Does Chinese have the capability to block Japanese sea transportation when Americans guaranteed the safety of sea routes to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE? Considering, Japan is the genuine ally of USA, I don’t see how American can stay neutrally in this scenario.

2. If you assume that Chinese is capable of blocking Japanese boat even with American intervene, then why won’t Chinese do it just in west Pacific ocean which is far closer to her navy ports rather than Indian Ocean which is 3000 miles away.


Indian Ocean is the worst place to carry out the blocking task: vast area, thousands of boats going through every day and critical to half of the world commercial transportation. Anyone wants to do blocking there will piss the whole world off.

It means that the Japanese plan to help India in establishing and maintaining its supreme control over Indian Ocean. This is Japan's best bet against Chinese influence in IOR.

The control over Indian Ocean was, is and will be within the hands of USA which has been the best ally of Japan after WW2. The Japanese has no intention to help anyone but American in establishing and maintaining the supreme control over Indian Ocean.


Nobody wants to see Indian controlling Indian Ocean.

 

[F-14B]

Since when? In which treaty, Japan and India promised each other the obligation as an alliance?

I am sorry should we get the approval of your politburo to identify our allies and enemies
or is uncle han telling you to type all this nonsense in the morning
now dear kindly hop along to your local party office and read the writing of commered bad breath aka Mao

Nobody wants to see Indian controlling Indian Ocean.

why cant we apply the same logic you are using in the south seas ( no I will not call it china ) ??

 

[The Ultranationalist]

String of pearls is already an failed strategy, chinese cant do shit in the IOR, besides it is weakness to look for allies to counter a foe, instead we should focus on building an all powerful and a fearsome naval force, yes MAKE THE INDIAN OCEAN INDIA'S OCEAN

 

[Butter Chicken]

Japanese are investing billions of dollars and providing soft loans to India at row rates of interest.They are already helping us the best possible way-making India stronger economically

 

[busesaway]

I don't think India should embark on an aggressive military strategy simply because the country is too poor. We don't have the economic or diplomatic might to counter the superpowers of China and the Middle East; we're already losing the war in many western countries with racism against Non-Muslims reaching sky-high peaks.

I would try to adopt a strategy that sees India court China's diplomatic and economic power, but remains fairly against any relations between China and the Middle East (Muslims), against any relations between China and Maoists, and supportive of Tibet's right to cultural independence (i.e. ceremonial Dalai Lama).

We should make it clear that we want to allow China to grow economically and diplomatically. We could even allow it the similar privileges that we provide the United States! But we should make it clear that we will not put ourselves in a economically or diplomatically untenable position, and that we're allying with Japan/Korea/Taiwan/SEA because we think that China will harm important trade routes in the region.

We should also diplomatically support the political independence of Taiwan - but for the sake of "practicality", in that it just makes foriegn relations easier.

 

[The Ultranationalist]

I don't think India should embark on an aggressive military strategy simply because the country is too poor. We don't have the economic or diplomatic might to counter the superpowers of China and the Middle East; we're already losing the war in many western countries with racism against Non-Muslims reaching sky-high peaks.

I would try to adopt a strategy that sees India court China's diplomatic and economic power, but remains fairly against any relations between China and the Middle East (Muslims), against any relations between China and Maoists, and supportive of Tibet's right to cultural independence (i.e. ceremonial Dalai Lama).

We should make it clear that we want to allow China to grow economically and diplomatically. We could even allow it the similar privileges that we provide the United States! But we should make it clear that we will not put ourselves in a economically or diplomatically untenable position, and that we're allying with Japan/Korea/Taiwan/SEA because we think that China will harm important trade routes in the region.

We should also diplomatically support the political independence of Taiwan - but for the sake of "practicality", in that it just makes foriegn relations easier.

You yourself are confused and you are advocating pacifism and a teethless foreign policy, china is no lesser enemy than the porkies theemselves, we should focus on settling the old scores with them, say 1962.

 

[busesaway]

You yourself are confused and you are advocating pacifism and a teethless foreign policy, china is no lesser enemy than the porkies theemselves, we should focus on settling the old scores with them, say 1962.

I group the paki problem into the construct called "The Middle East", along with Islamists and the pirates in the Arabian Sea. This entire issue can be dealt with by getting help from the United States and NATO.


China isn't going to wage a war against India. It would be diplomatically untenable since the only countries that hate India enough a Muslim countries - of that only the Middle East hates India enough to wage war.

And we simply do not have the money for posturing against China. We need to face facts that China is far more richer, far more developed, and far more diplomatically powerful than India.

We should come to a diplomatic arrangement so we can spend money on creating jobs and investing in research & development; our scientists and engineers can have fun discovering new scientific knowledge and building domestically produced military hardware.

And while I do believe that self-defense is a positive virtue to have, I think we have right to defend ourselves against the Islamic threat. Are you advocating that we launch a military intervention into Africa in order to gain wealth for us like the European colonialists? Because that would be impossible without alienating us from the rest of the globe.