Japanese help in breaking string of pearls stratagem

[IndianHawk]

One of funny fallacies of indian posters is you often talk about your EXPECTATIONS as if they were REALITY. Yeah gotcha - Indians wish others would fight your war without your own toil. Unfortunately top notch Japanese are far smarter than Indian keyboard warriors.

How do Indians define an "alliance" / "ally"？ Or to be straightforward is Japan (or US or Australia, or Israel, or Russia) an ally of India on earth? Furthermore what would motivate Japan among others to become India's pawns in "breaking the string of pearls stratagem" ?? How would Japan weigh costs and gains for serving India's purpose?

Why do u take their support for granted while India has nothing to offer in turn?

Just take an easy example - Japanese Bullet Train coming to India
Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by rock127, May 31, 2013.

Mark my words here = let's check after another 4 years -would there be breaking-ground for even one Japanese-tech (or funded) high speed railway? :biggrin2:

That would be a touch stone for your alliance of breaking China's string.

Many thing could be done in 4 years. Sino-Myanmar pipelines was completed in 4 years on the string of pearls.

Japan sure has an interest in keeping all its trade routes free of pesky Chinese :biggrin2:
But I guess that is too much to comprehend for smart chincom. Anyway people who need their govt to decide for them how much child can they breed surely are very clever

 

[amoy]

And Chinese posters fallacy would be to assume India has nothing to offer in return. It's money and market. Can't help you if you don't understand how it works. Comparing Pakistani market base to Indias is like comparing a rat and an elephant.

In your own example......

http://m.economictimes.com/industry...um=emailshare&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons

This is how Chinese are begging India to be a part of the railway's project. You think they will want to be included if India has nothing to offer in return? As usual with their warning and advices. China can feel free to sell their trains to Pakistan and keep its advice and warnings to itself. Chinese posters are living in dreamland too my Friend.

Nah, as an flagged Singaporean u know what no-nonsense Chinese are about to have built Singapore into one of few Asian developed countries.

There is no so-called India railway project in the first place, but a scam.

A conversation btwn PM Shinzo Abe and an Japanese entrepreneur:

Abe: Modi-ji has kept on talking about "bullet trains" with our superior technology for four years. Where has it gone?
Entrepreneur: There's no such a project at all. Those Indians just put up a hoax to show how attractive India is as an investment destination.
Abe: And they made a media fuss that Chinese were also in the race as if it were a keen competition. WTF!
Entrepreneur: Sadly we bit their bait. Now we know Indians are not serious people to partner with.

Have u realized India's phishing drama by now?! U can fool some of Japanese some of time, but... sooner or later.

My friend, wake up now, not after another four years.

 

[Krusty]

Nah, as an flagged Singaporean u know what no-nonsense Chinese are about to have built Singapore into one of few Asian developed countries.

There is no so-called India railway project in the first place, but a scam.

A conversation btwn PM Shinzo Abe and an Japanese entrepreneur:

Abe: Modi-ji has kept on talking about "bullet trains" with our superior technology for four years. Where has it gone?
Entrepreneur: There's no such a project at all. Those Indians just put up a hoax to show how attractive India is as an investment destination.
Abe: And they made a media fuss that Chinese were also in the race as if it were a keen competition. WTF!
Entrepreneur: Sadly we bit their bait. Now we know Indians are not serious people to partner with.

No u see India's phishing drama?! U can fool some of Japanese some of time, but... sooner or later.

My friend, wake up now, not after another four years.

You left the other conference call participants. Optimus prime, Obi Wan Kenobi and Tony stark.

 

[Krusty]

@amoy You might want to learn more about Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed rail before giving everyone a display if your ignorance and subterfuge. Currently soil testing already in progress. Five other routes are in the pipeline 2 of which are already confirmed to be based on the Japanese Shinkansen. That's why China is frothing from its mouth. Don't worry, your deeper than ocean higher than mountain, richer than Arab Friend Pakistan will buy Chinese trains. Wake up from your fake dreamland bro...


P.S: There is a big difference between no nonsense singaporean Chinese and mainland communist Chinese. Almost as if they are from different planets. Why do you reach out as far as Singapore. Just ask people from Hong Kong. They will be happy to explain.

 

[amoy]

Japan sure has an interest in keeping all its trade routes free of pesky Chinese :biggrin2:
But I guess that is too much to comprehend for smart chincom. Anyway people who need their govt to decide for them how much child can they breed surely are very clever

Hey Mr Hawk, there's already another hawk based in Diego Garcia patrolling the Indian Ocean.

Our Japanese friends can have a good sleep knowing American Hawk is reliable,
not Indian Hawk=IBM (intl big mouth).

 

[amoy]

@amoy You might want to learn more about Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed rail before giving everyone a display if your ignorance and subterfuge. Currently soil testing already in progress. Five other routes are in the pipeline 2 of which are already confirmed to be based on the Japanese Shinkansen. That's why China is frothing from its mouth. Don't worry, your deeper than ocean higher than mountain, richer than Arab Friend Pakistan will buy Chinese trains. Wake up from your fake dreamland bro...

Don't worry. I will show u a mirror after another four years.

Wait and see if Indias HSR will be completed in four years from now. Or it's just a trap for Japanese.

- Japanese Bullet Train coming to India
Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by rock127, May 31, 2013.

Then u'll know who is ignorant.

 

[Krusty]

Don't worry. I will show u a mirror after another four years.

Wait and see if Indias HSR will be completed in four years from now. Or it's just a trap for Japanese.

- Japanese Bullet Train coming to India
Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by rock127, May 31, 2013.

Then u'll know who is ignorant.

You know what the irony is, a Chinese warning India against traps LOL. What about the ones Chinese are setting up in Pakistan? The 50b$ debt trap for your sweeter than honey friends? Aaaah traps are good only if they are set by the Chinese huh? Wonder Why do Chinese think they are the thekaddar of common sense and wisdom and insist on giving advice to everyone?

In my line of work I have interacted with mainland Chinese and people from Japan. The Japanese say what they mean and stick to what they said to the last letter. Chinese are on the opposite end of the spectrum. When it comes to it, not all that different from Indian businessmen interms of attitude. And ok, I will wait for your 'mirror' till then, hope China doesn't moan anymore of being left out of the Indian market.

Btw that post you refer to, was the result of signing the MOU by Japan and India. Faesability study was complete in 2015 and in 2016 JICA was awarded the design study. Work is expected to start in 2018. I don't know what you are on about. You think this is some lego blocks to just start and finish in a couple of years?

 

[IndianHawk]

Hey Mr Hawk, there's already another hawk based in Diego Garcia patrolling the Indian Ocean.

Our Japanese friends can have a good sleep knowing American Hawk is reliable,
not Indian Hawk=IBM (intl big mouth).

The hawk with nest nearby shall always prevail over some bird whose nest is thousands mile apart. By the way IBM has two r&d center in India so our big mouth is quite productive.:biggrin2:

 

[amoy]

You know what the irony is, a Chinese warning India against traps LOL. What about the ones Chinese are setting up in Pakistan? The 50b$ debt trap for your sweeter than honey friends? Aaaah traps are good only if they are set by the Chinese huh? Wonder Why do Chinese think they are the thekaddar of common sense and wisdom and insist on giving advice to everyone?

P.S: in my line of work I have interacted with mainland Chinese and people from Japan. The Japanese say what they mean and stick to what they said to the last letter. Chinese are on the opposite end of the spectrum. When it comes to it, not all that different from Indian businessmen interms of attitude. And ok, I will wait for your 'mirror' till then, hope China doesn't moan anymore of being left out of the Indian market.

Don't worry. No hurry.

After 4 years u can revisit this thread if u're still around.

Then we'll see how Japanese and Indians from different poles of the world work out.

 

[IndianHawk]

Nah, as an flagged Singaporean u know what no-nonsense Chinese are about to have built Singapore into one of few Asian developed countries.

There is no so-called India railway project in the first place, but a scam.

A conversation btwn PM Shinzo Abe and an Japanese entrepreneur:

Abe: Modi-ji has kept on talking about "bullet trains" with our superior technology for four years. Where has it gone?
Entrepreneur: There's no such a project at all. Those Indians just put up a hoax to show how attractive India is as an investment destination.
Abe: And they made a media fuss that Chinese were also in the race as if it were a keen competition. WTF!
Entrepreneur: Sadly we bit their bait. Now we know Indians are not serious people to partner with.

Have u realized India's phishing drama by now?! U can fool some of Japanese some of time, but... sooner or later.

My friend, wake up now, not after another four years.

Chiese are studying rail routes in india and offering their technology .If Indian are not serious then chinese must be stupid . I agree with you on this one

 

[Krusty]

Don't worry. No hurry.

After 4 years u can revisit this thread if u're still around.

Then we'll see how Japanese and Indians from different poles of the world work out.

Perhaps I will. Delays aren't something out of the ordinary in large projects like these especially in India. Regardless, Chinese still won't get in and global times will still froth from its mouth and keep warning India

 

[Krusty]

http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-...y-china-doesnt-publish-fatal-train-crash-data

Chinese HSR operating in stable terrain has a bad reputation when it comes to accidents.
Japan on the other hand has been operating HSR for far longer and on far more geologically unstable surface and has an impressive track record when it comes to safety. If you can afford it, why not go for the trusty Japanese tech?

 

[nimo_cn]

http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-...y-china-doesnt-publish-fatal-train-crash-data

Chinese HSR operating in stable terrain has a bad reputation when it comes to accidents.
Japan on the other hand has been operating HSR for far longer and on far more geologically unstable surface and has an impressive track record when it comes to safety. If you can afford it, why not go for the trusty Japanese tech?

depends who are operating the trains, in the hands of indians, i doubt it's gonna be that safe.

MiGs are not flying coffins before they came to India.

 

[nimo_cn]

Chiese are studying rail routes in india and offering their technology .If Indian are not serious then chinese must be stupid . I agree with you on this one

I guess there is no harm in doing that, at least it's good for publicity.

given the current animosity between china and India, Chinese are not very optimistic that India is gonna choose China over Japan, but it's worth a try.

 

[Krusty]

depends who are operating the trains, in the hands of indians, i doubt it's gonna be that safe.

MiGs are not flying coffins before they came to India.

Agreed. Handling the equipment is one thing. But the least we could do as a customer is to choose proven technology. That is why the Japanese route.

I still remember back in 2011 or 2012. A Chinese high speed train stopped dead on its tracks after being hit by a lightning. What kind of design is that? Needless to say it didn't end well for the trains passengers and those of the train that rammed into it from behind. There was a total failure interms if both design and management. Taking out as many weakness as you can out of the equation is common sense.

 

[IndianHawk]

I guess there is no harm in doing that, at least it's good for publicity.

given the current animosity between china and India, Chinese are not very optimistic that India is gonna choose China over Japan, but it's worth a try.

Also Japanese loan turned out to be far cheaper than what Chinese could muster.
And since Japan lacks the manpower it will be Indian person involved in building running the whole show unlike Chinese style of employing only Chinese as we see in Africa and pakistan.

 

[nimo_cn]

Agreed. Handling the equipment is one thing. But the least we could do as a customer is to choose proven technology. That is why the Japanese route. Ofcourse there is the geo political part as well.

I still remember back in 2011 or 2012. A Chinese high speed train stopped dead on its tracks after being hit by a lightning. What kind of design is that? Needless to say it didn't end well for the trains passengers and those of the train that rammed into it from behind. Taking out as many weakness as you can out of the equation is common sense.

China is operating a HSR system larger than the rest of world combined, so far it's still robust and safe.

indians who are still drawing bullet trains on paper are in no position to judge Chinese HSR technology.

amoy contend that indian HSR plan is a trap, that is al, your disapproval of Chinese technology is irrelevant.

Japanese have been promoting its HSR for decades since it was invented, not until the recent they succeeded for the first time in pitching it to taiwan. I wont surprise that it takes china longer to sell HSR abroad.

 

[nimo_cn]

Also Japanese loan turned out to be far cheaper than what Chinese could muster.
And since Japan lacks the manpower it will be Indian person involved in building running the whole show unlike Chinese style of employing only Chinese as we see in Africa and pakistan.

everything has a price tag, which you are gonna pay sooner or later, one way or another, that is all I am gonna say.

Japanese offered the similar thing to China when Chinese were contemplating about a HSR line linking Beijing and shanghai, the two most important Chinese cities in early 1990s. China turned it down.

A HSR line built by Japanese technology with Japanese fund, very tempting I must say. but how Japanese are gonna recover their investment?Japanese stuff are known to be expensive, they are not out there doing charit, right? you have to pay them one way or another, then what is the price gonna be?

in my humble opinion, once Japanese plan is successfully fulfilled, the whole indian HSR market is gonna be in the hands of Japan. all HSR lines to be built later are gonna base on Japanese technology, the maintenance and upgrade followed will be taken over by Japanese. when that time comes, India is gonna understand what the real price is!

 

[Krusty]

China is operating a HSR system larger than the rest of world combined, so far it's still robust and safe.

indians who are still drawing bullet trains on paper are in no position to judge Chinese HSR technology.

amoy contend that indian HSR plan is a trap, that is al, your disapproval of Chinese technology is irrelevant.

Japanese have been promoting its HSR for decades since it was invented, not until the recent they succeeded for the first time in pitching it to taiwan. I wont surprise that it takes china longer to sell HSR abroad.

rage. Cool down bro. Chinese systems are robust and safe? Questionable at best. China suppresses news and the ones that trickle out is caught by the international media. That in itself makes for a poor record. Who knows how many accidents CCP hid away? China is hard to trust. That's another point against. Indian rail manufacturers possibly cannot judge Chinese HSR. Agree. But as an individual, I am free to draw my own conclusions. I am not a mainland Chinese in china to be kidnapped if I judge anything against the country. Cool down collect your composure. Don't start acting like global times frothing against India. My disapproval is irrelevant yes. But it seems to have touched a nerve with you chinese trains won't roll in India. Best that you, CCP and global times accept it move on. As I said, you always have your deeper than ocean, higher than mountain and richer than Arab friends to sell stuff to.

 

[IndianHawk]

everything has a price tag, which you are gonna pay sooner or later, one way or another, that is all I am gonna say.

Japanese offered the similar thing to China when Chinese were contemplating about a HSR line linking Beijing and shanghai, the two most important Chinese cities in early 1990s. China turned it down.

A HSR line built by Japanese technology with Japanese fund, very tempting I must say. but how Japanese are gonna recover their investment?Japanese stuff are known to be expensive, they are not out there doing charit, right? you have to pay them one way or another, then what is the price gonna be?

in my humble opinion, once Japanese plan is successfully fulfilled, the whole indian HSR market is gonna be in the hands of Japan. all HSR lines to be built later are gonna base on Japanese technology, the maintenance and upgrade followed will be taken over by Japanese. when that time comes, India is gonna understand what the real price is!

Loan is 15 billion dollars at 0.5% interest to be payable over 50 years. Thats cheaper than any world Bank/ADB loan. As for as financing goes its gold standard.

Now again about technology. Japan participate in similar manner in Delhi metro project loan of which is quite easily paid. And now India is exporting coaches for metro trains all over the world.

Many Chinese HSR train are running only because of subsidized fare India can't do that so it will keep HSR track very limited . Only on select very profitable route for now. For such short track length investing billion dollars and decades in research is just not worth it. Anyway in a decade or two new technologies will evolve hyperloop etc it's much prudent for us to invest time and effort in that.