Japan unveils aircraft carrier

ice berg

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1. Destroyer or AC is just a name. it is an offensive weapon or not depend on different media.

2. Why no more peaceful nuclear test anymore? Don't want to contribute more on peace?
ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

According to the Japanese government, "'war potential' in paragraph two means force exceeding a minimum level necessary for self-defense. Anything at or below that level does not constitute war potential.

Chinen, Mark A. "Article Nine of Japan's Constitution: From Renunciation of Armed Forces "Forever" to the Third Largest Defense Budget in the World." Michigan Journal of International Law 27 (2005):60

I think most people know the difference between a rifle and LHA.
 

bose

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Japan is slowly and surely comming out of its futile pacifist model... An alliance is the need of the hour between Japan, USA, Vietnam & Phillipines...
 

trackwhack

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so far japan hasn't had any f35B, it will be long time before they get it.
Yes, but they will get them around the same time that the ship is inducted. If the f35 program does not get shelved by then.
 

asianobserve

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ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

According to the Japanese government, "'war potential' in paragraph two means force exceeding a minimum level necessary for self-defense. Anything at or below that level does not constitute war potential.

Chinen, Mark A. "Article Nine of Japan's Constitution: From Renunciation of Armed Forces "Forever" to the Third Largest Defense Budget in the World." Michigan Journal of International Law 27 (2005):60

I think most people know the difference between a rifle and LHA.

How can a non-Japanese say that a Japanese military acquisition is violative of its Constitution when the Japanese themselves don't see it that way? I think most of Asia is now ready for a normal Japan, one with a normal military capability cmmensurate with its economic might. Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten, which we should thank China for (ironically the most affected by Imperial Japan's actions).
 
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no smoking

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How can a non-Japanese say that a Japanese military acquisition is violative of its Constitution when the Japanese themselves don't see it that way?
Because they killed millions of civilians of its neighbours 70 years ago! In order to calm its neighbours down, they made up that constitution to prove that they will never get into war against them proactively. This constitution is one of the major reasons that Japan paid a lower price for its war crime even though they killed far more civilians than Nazi.

So, yes, we have the right to say that.

I think most of Asia is now ready for a normal Japan, one with a normal military capability cmmensurate with its economic might. Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten, which we should thank China for (ironically the most affected by Imperial Japan's actions).
Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and but not forgotten thanks to their own politicians keep reminding us how friendly they were in WW2. But it is true that most of asia is now ready for a normal Japan because each of us beocmes far stronger than 70 years ago. It will be lot easier to fight a normal country rather than the fake peaceful one.
 

asianobserve

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Because they killed millions of civilians of its neighbours 70 years ago! In order to calm its neighbours down, they made up that constitution to prove that they will never get into war against them proactively. This constitution is one of the major reasons that Japan paid a lower price for its war crime even though they killed far more civilians than Nazi.

So, yes, we have the right to say that.

The Pacifist Japanese Constitution is a brainchild of the Americans. If China had a say in the fate of postwar Japan then Japan would have been razed to the ground...


Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and but not forgotten thanks to their own politicians keep reminding us how friendly they were in WW2. But it is true that most of asia is now ready for a normal Japan because each of us beocmes far stronger than 70 years ago. It will be lot easier to fight a normal country rather than the fake peaceful one.
What is more important to China's smaller neighbors now is not what happened 70 years ago. What is more important is reigning in China (the new aspiring Asian Imperial power) so that what happened 70 years ago will not happen anymore. And in this quest Japan plays, or should play, an integral part.
 

bose

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What is more important to China's smaller neighbors now is not what happened 70 years ago. What is more important is reigning in China (the new aspiring Asian Imperial power) so that what happened 70 years ago will not happen anymore. And in this quest Japan plays, or should play, an integral part.
Great Analysis... Asia have to move on from what has happened 70 years back, where we all condemn Japan's war time activities...

The new challenge is China a country who has not been able to come out of its past reverses to put it in nice words... China is out to bully its small neighbors and steal their resources, so the only way is to come together and fight is 21st century evil or else history will repeat itself"¦
 

SajeevJino

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next step for Japan is to test nuke, for its self defence.
Nope ..Testing Nuke Warheads puts Japan once again into 1950 they will lost their personality they will loss their economy , their Technology supports from other Countries and Import export too


In my view we should join our Hands with Japanese more Stronger than ever .we may go for Joint innovations like 5th gen Fighter , Ship Building and Infrastructure Development
 

asianobserve

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There's no need for a nuclear Japan. It's the US' role to provide nuclear umbrella to Japan and other American allies in the region. What Japan needs to do is to dramatically ramp up its conventional forces so that it can take the initiative against China when needed. (I don't think China will go nuclear in a conventional forces skirmish with Japan.)
 

ice berg

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How can a non-Japanese say that a Japanese military acquisition is violative of its Constitution when the Japanese themselves don't see it that way? I think most of Asia is now ready for a normal Japan, one with a normal military capability cmmensurate with its economic might. Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten, which we should thank China for (ironically the most affected by Imperial Japan's actions).
1. I am not aware that you have to be a Japanese to comment on their constitution. If we follow your logic then you are never supposed to discuss internal politics of another country.
2. When did I say that their military acquisition is in vialation of the Constitution? Read carefully what I quoted.
3. Who told you what it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten? You talked to any koreans or chinese? Seen any of their newspapers whenever some politicians visited the shrine to boost their standings?
4. It was not China who is most affected by Imperial Japans actions. It was Korea. Learn some history, kid.
 

mattster

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Every country in South East Asia should support Japan building a strong powerful Navy that can stand up to China.
India is too far away to project power. A militarily strong Japan is good for all the smaller south Asian states.
 

asianobserve

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1. I am not aware that you have to be a Japanese to comment on their constitution. If we follow your logic then you are never supposed to discuss internal politics of another country.
Discuss internal politics of any country and the wisdom of their laws, yes, but comment on the interpretation of their laws, NO, unless of course you have studied their legal system. Local laws have legislative intentions and interpretations unique to the country where they were enacted. The Japanese certainly does have an interpretation of their Constitution different from your and your country's legal opinions on the matter. Otherwise, if the Japanese share your ideas on the matter then the budget for the Izumo would not have passed the Japanese Diet for being unconstitutional. There are certainly hordes of Communists and die hard pacifists in Japan that would have loved to skewer the Izumo by citing Constitutional prohibition.

2. When did I say that their military acquisition is in vialation of the Constitution? Read carefully what I quoted.
Then that make your case even worse. From your above statement I gather that you don't even understand the things that you are posting. Anyway, to explain to you how I ended up with my comment, please remember that in your comment to Kunal Biswas you were implying that the Izumo is an "LHA," an offensive weapon that is prohibited by the Japanese Constitution. You drew the distinction between an assault rifle and an LHA in making your point. Here it is:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

According to the Japanese government, "'war potential' in paragraph two means force exceeding a minimum level necessary for self-defense. Anything at or below that level does not constitute war potential.

Chinen, Mark A. "Article Nine of Japan's Constitution: From Renunciation of Armed Forces "Forever" to the Third Largest Defense Budget in the World." Michigan Journal of International Law 27 (2005):60

I think most people know the difference between a rifle and LHA.
3. Who told you what it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten? You talked to any koreans or chinese? Seen any of their newspapers whenever some politicians visited the shrine to boost their standings?
Well as far as the rest of Asia is concerned it's as good as forgotten. Nobody except China is really afraid that Japan will suddenly turn back into Imperial Japan and start island hopping across the Pacific to capture back territories that they lost during WW2. Maybe you Chinese believe this stuff, not us. But what we don't forget is the lesson learned from that War: that a fellow Asian with imperial ambitions in Asia is bad for everybody.


4. It was not China who is most affected by Imperial Japans actions. It was Korea. Learn some history, kid.
Learn how to "google," boy! Here is a comparison of WW2 deaths between China and Korea (North and South) in Wikipedia:

China - 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 (est. military deaths) - 7,000,000 to 16,000,000 (est. civilian deaths during the war) - 10,000,000 to 20,000,000 (est. total deaths)
Korea - 378,000 to 343,000 (est. civilian deaths, no figures on military deaths since Korea did not have a military at the outbreak of WW2)
World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can also take a survey at other estimates of casualties but overall pictures does not differ much in that China has suffered substantially more deaths than Korea during WW2.
 
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ice berg

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Discuss internal politics of any country and the wisdom of their laws, yes, but comment on the interpretation of their laws, NO, unless of course you have studied their legal system. Local laws have legislative intentions and interpretations unique to the country where they were enacted. The Japanese certainly does have an interpretation of their Constitution different from your and your country's legal opinions on the matter.

To which I gave their interpretations if you bother to read my quotes. And anyone can comment on that. Your argument of legal expertise can be applied to various fields. If we follow that logic then you can not comment on economics of certain country nor the political system unless you have studied their system since they all have their unique characteristics.
Otherwise, if the Japanese share your ideas on the matter then the budget for the Izumo would not have passed the Japanese Diet for being unconstitutional. There are certainly hordes of Communists and die hard pacifists in Japan that would have loved to skewer the Izumo by citing Constitutional prohibition.

They dont need to share my idea on the matter. That is not a prequirement for participating in a discussion.
Then that make your case even worse. From your above statement I gather that you don't even understand the things that you are posting. Anyway, to explain to you how I ended up with my comment, please remember that in your comment to Kunal Biswas you were implying that the Izumo is an "LHA," an offensive weapon that is prohibited by the Japanese Constitution. You drew the distinction between an assault rifle and an LHA in making your point. Here it is:

Code:
Are you saying that there is no difference between Izumo and an assualt rifle? If so then I gather that you dont even understand the things you are posting. Google is your friend, son.


Well as far as the rest of Asia is concerned it's as good as forgotten. Nobody except China is really afraid that Japan will suddenly turn back into Imperial Japan and start island hopping across the Pacific to capture back territories that they lost during WW2. Maybe you Chinese believe this stuff, not us. But what we don't forget is the lesson learned from that War: that a fellow Asian with imperial ambitions in Asia is bad for everybody.

I see that you still like to play your favourit game of pretending to speak on behave of Asia. Truth to tell your country has no influence on ASEAN politics. I dont believe Japan will return to their imperial past. I cant speak for China. I will leave the predictions and second guesses to you.

Learn how to "google," boy! Here is a comparison of WW2 deaths between China and Korea (North and South) in Wikipedia:

China - 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 (est. military deaths) - 7,000,000 to 16,000,000 (est. civilian deaths during the war) - 10,000,000 to 20,000,000 (est. total deaths)
Korea - 378,000 to 343,000 (est. civilian deaths, no figures on military deaths since Korea did not have a military at the outbreak of WW2)
World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

learn to read, boy! That was your sentence: Whatever it did 70 years ago is already past and forgotten, which we should thank China for (ironically the most affected by Imperial Japan's actions). .So we are moving away from the "most affected by Imperial Japans actions to who lost most people?" What about this: In Southeast Asia, the Manila massacre of February 1945 resulted in the death of 100,000 civilians in the Philippines. It is estimated that at least one out of every 20 Filipinos died at the hand of the Japanese during the occupation.
What about this: a New York Times editorial on March 6 .2007said:

These were not commercial brothels. Force, explicit and implicit, was used in recruiting these women. What went on in them was serial rape, not prostitution. The Japanese Army's involvement is documented in the government's own defense files. A senior Tokyo official more or less apologized for this horrific crime in 1993 ... Yesterday, he grudgingly acknowledged the 1993 quasi apology, but only as part of a pre-emptive declaration that his government would reject the call, now pending in the United States Congress, for an official apology. America isn't the only country interested in seeing Japan belatedly accept full responsibility. Korea, China, and the Philippines are also infuriated by years of Japanese equivocations over the issue.So if your parents was forced to that , it is ok by you cause they are not dead, thus not considered a crime against humanity? Only murder can be considered a crime? What did you learn that exactly?
You can also take a survey at other estimates of casualties but overall pictures does not differ much in that China has suffered substantially more deaths than Korea during WW2.
No kidding, sherlock, China had a far larger population too. What is the percentage of death compared to the population? I already gave you an exemple of Phillipine. Google the rest.
 

asianobserve

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No kidding, sherlock, China had a far larger population too. What is the percentage of death compared to the population? I already gave you an exemple of Phillipine. Google the rest.

I cannot quote your post except above. Did you do it on purpose?

Anyway, I don't know how you quantify the extent of an aggression/war on a country, in my case I count it on the number of deaths a country suffered. But even based on your metrics of deaths to population ratio, the casualties China suffered is still higher than Korea based on their 1939 census: 1.93 to 3.85 for China and Korea's ratio is 1.6 to 2.06. Of course there was Unit 731's macabre biological laboratories in China and the Rape of Nanking?

Interestingly, as you said the Philippines suffered more deaths per population than China and Korea (based on the data posted on Wikipedia the death to 1939 population ratio of the Philippines is estimated to be 3.48 to 6.6), yet the Philippines seems to be very enthusiastic about giving Japan a bigger military role in the neighborhood...
 

ice berg

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I cannot quote your post except above. Did you do it on purpose?
Why would I do that?
Anyway, I don't know how you quantify the extent of an aggression/war on a country, in my case I count it on the number of deaths a country suffered. But even based on your metrics of deaths to population ratio, the casualties China suffered is still higher than Korea based on their 1939 census: 1.93 to 3.85 for China and Korea's ratio is 1.6 to 2.06. Of course there was Unit 731's macabre biological laboratories in China and the Rape of Nanking?

You couldnt, that was my point. It is not a numbers game as you tried to put it. Would you prefer to be send to a japanese pleasure house or be killed? Is the extent of an aggression solely based on people killed? Crimes against humanity, as defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum, "are particularly odious offenses in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of human beings. Was a country less "affected" by the japanese actions if fewer of their population were killed?
Interestingly, as you said the Philippines suffered more deaths per population than China and Korea (based on the data posted on Wikipedia the death to 1939 population ratio of the Philippines is estimated to be 3.48 to 6.6), yet the Philippines seems to be very enthusiastic about giving Japan a bigger military role in the neighborhood...
Proof that some people have short memories. Recall their decision to deny US bases and a few years later begging them to come back.
 

asianobserve

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Proof that some people have short memories. Recall their decision to deny US bases and a few years later begging them to come back.
Forget about the Americans. What is more noteworthy is the openness of the Philippines to Japanese military being stationed in their country. Of course the singular credit for that should go to China.
 

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