Japan-China dispute: India should follow middle path

[arya]

open front aginst pakistan when china busy with japan .

 

[hello_10]

Middle path should be to niggle China and act coy!

sir yesterday I was talking that common Indian Members of Indian Forums can't rally understand war politics, as much as Russian side understand. I mean, common people can't even think to the level of war politics, which Russians deal with while talking in common, as per my experience with russian friends too.....:ranger:

we do know that Russian military strength is undoubtedly superior to China, but we used to talk in common that we all should learn Chinese now, while sitting in common lounge etc with my Russian friends. i mean, ... if you want to put China directly against US/NATO then you do need to make them think like a Super Power, and Chinese as Super Men ..... i mean, when i see Chinese members posting pictures of PLA, with showing 1000s of tanks, aircrafts altogether then we would only say, "we got scared, but we hope we may defend India from China....."

and this is the belief we need to build in Chinese/China if we want to make them think like Superpowers, otherwise if India is a power too then they would first worry for the nation on their border???? and here, if Indian side is also meant to defend itself only then we do know that China has as much strength that it may successfully bring US down to its foot, mainly because of its growing economy, trade etc, along with bigger military preparation too...:thumb:

(Russia also had war with China in past, have land disputes too, but even if China has been copying russian arms, cloning too, Russia has been supplying engines for the same arms as Chinese couldn't copy engines of those aircrafts....

if you want to make a country always going against the NATO then you do need to prepare a proper ground for that. its also meant to openly discuss superiority about China, being threatened with he pictures of PLA, with efforts to learn Chinese Language as the time has come, the common talks. :thumb:


=> I mean, regardless any border disputes, there mustn't be any reason why your people remain inferior just because this is the Western publicity in the market, while its the Indian professionals who made the key technologies for US/UK for a long time. they get the most competent people from India, in 1000s number of those who score 95%+ in the international exams. but after using talent of the same Indians, they make them 'SlumDog', as they have media/ Oscars/ Nobel etc to do this type of publicity????? one day I discussed that, have a look on the GMAT exams, Indian high scores vary for 760 to 790 on average, while none of European institute we find in 700+, except INSEAD i saw with around 702 average last year, while US's institutes could have 700+ due to the marks by international students who raised overall average score..... the concept of 'Neo-Colonialism' is now more visible, but propaganda from the Western Media keep them superior on the world platform, and we need a resistance to these efforts. we dont want our people to have wrong image in world, regardless any border issues.....

 

[hello_10]

Maybe you should check the detail of your India-Japan pact. There is no term indicate that India or Japan would bear any obligation for each other when one side is in a conflict or war with a third country. In other words, these new treaties may bring Japan and india closer, but still far away from being allies.

By the way, neither Chinese nor japanese thinks that india has the neccessary power to provide any military support in eastern asia currently. The key role in this potential Sino-Japan conflict will always be US. With US support, Japan don't need india. Without US support, India's support is meaningless to Japan.

common Indians are always impressed with Japanese as they could prove this Asian race superior to Western during last half century, with making the best technologies of world in this Asian country. Indian media has habit to learn from the success of Japan, Korea, Singapore, with willing to perform like ASEAN, as what I used to commonly read during 90s in India. but this story stop here,

Rise of China has much more meaning than how China handle its neighbors, which is not of our concern. Indian strength is meant to defend itself only, and there is only China we have which may always resist US/West, with military and economic power both. Rise of China has much more meaning than how India deal with rest of Asian countries, :ranger:

 

[hello_10]

why would all the details be made public?? Since India's support is meaningless
China does need to be concerned.

3 Sides of World Politics

sir, US/West advocate a world which always fight with each other and needs help from West, finally. even if they included China in NPT, as a nuclear power country among P5s this way, then it was mainly meant to make China's neighbors understand that they need help from US/West while always being threatened from China. and geo-political experts do know that regardless any type of threat from China, there is no reason to surrender our sovereignty to US/West, no matter what....

and with my Russian friends, I have got more knowledge to deal with those tricks which make make US/West threatened with China, and hence asking for help from Russia, and also from India this way. there are 3 sides of War Politics of world, one which is aggressive, the second one which is on defensive side, and the 3rd one which takes benefits out of the conflicts between the first two. ..... US/West always want two neighbor Asian countries to fight with each others and ask for help from US/West this way, while we are working in the direction to bring China against them in such a way that US/West will finally have to do what we tell them :thumb:

 

[LETHALFORCE]

These are pacts between two Asian countries Japan-India I am sure both nations
are more concerned about their own national interests that be a tool of the west.

 

[Sam2012]

Japan-China dispute: Why India should follow middle path - The Times of India

As Chinese and Japanese surveillance ships and aircrafts shadow each other around Senkaku/Diaoyu islands tension is rising. But both the powers are also engaged in smile diplomacy to woo India, creating diplomatic openings for the country. Preoccupied with territorial disputes with Japan and its Southeast Asian neighbours, and concerned about the US pivot China is showing unusual warmth towards India. Coincidentally, the newly-elected Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, a long-time friend of India, has issued a thinly veiled call for an anti-China alliance. By steering a prudent course between competing suitors India could significantly improve its position in the region. Any misstep, however, could hurt India`s economic progress and endanger its long-term security.

In December, Liberal Democratic Party under Abe won a landslide victory fighting on a nationalist platform. Within weeks of becoming prime minister he published an unusually blunt editorial in which he charged that the South China Sea seems set to become "Lake Beijing", where "the People's Liberation Army's navy [could] base their nuclear-powered attack submarines". This development, he wrote, surpassed what he imagined in 2007 when he sought India`s friendship. "Anxious that such a development could arise, I spoke in India of the need for the Indian and Japanese governments to join together to shoulder more responsibility as guardians of navigational freedom across the Pacific and Indian oceans." Abe now wants to put "greater emphasis" on India developing regular bilateral service-to-service military dialogues and start official trilateral talks that include the US. He praised India for signing an agreement to provide Japan with rare earth minerals — a key component of which China holds near monopoly, and stopped exporting to Japan following a marine incident.

China's newly-elected party secretary general Xi Jinping, meanwhile, has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that China will "pay great importance to developing relations with India". He said China "expects to carry out close cooperation with India to create a brighter future of their bilateral relations". At the end of the recent defence dialogue in Beijing deputy chief of general staff of PLA Lt Gen Qi Jianguo was quoted as saying that "China sincerely hopes to become a strategic partner of India based on equality, mutual trust, mutual learning and cooperation. "There are indications that this is not just polite noise by a new leadership in China. Indian diplomatic sources say that in recent months China has been all sweet and honey, relieved that India has not joined American-led efforts against China. Despite entreaties by some Asean countries to step up its presence in the region India has been cautious, letting the countries know to not count on India to fight China. By publicly supporting Asean, India wants to give the grouping a margin of manoeuvre without provoking China. The diplomats say that China is wary of Pakistan`s instability and its role in training Uighur militants. While Beijing would not change the low-cost policy of supporting Pakistan as a proxy to curb India`s regional power, China may be more appreciative of India`s stabilising role in Afghanistan. Though a border agreement with China is not for tomorrow, the fact of working towards the goal gives India breathing room.

The possibility of cooperation with China on international forums from Brics to climate change talks — and expanding economic ties could proceed while India strengthens cooperation with US and Japan. India`s growing military cooperation with the US and joint exercises with Japan, not to mention expanding economic ties with Japan, which is making significant investments, is as much for India`s growth as it is a hedge against China. But India would calibrate carefully its embrace of Japan so as to not fall into a de facto alliance against China.

The fact is that despite tough talk by Abe, Japan itself is ambivalent about how to deal with the Chinese challenge. Steady escalation of Chinese pressure on Japan over Senkaku seems designed to force Japan to acknowledge that the island is a disputed territory. The US is publicly and privately urging Japan to show restraint against Chinese provocation. Abe will also have to listen to Japan`s business community, which is anxious to not lose Chinese market and manufacturing platforms by slipping into a conflict. While India and Japan share an interest in freedom of navigation and curbing China`s ambition, India will have more clout by staking a middle ground rather than being seen as Japan`s ally.

Except Russia,Isreal no one else have supported india more on war time . Why should we get into the spat between Japan & China?

Remember the same japan slapped sanctions on India after pokhran 2 , china opposed pokhran 2

hence both are not friend or ally of India , Only russia is Indian ally & Isreal true friend:thumb:

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Except Russia,Isreal no one else have supported india more on war time . Why should we get into the spat between Japan & China?

Remember the same japan slapped sanctions on India after pokhran 2 , china opposed pokhran 2

hence both are not friend or ally of India , Only russia is Indian ally & Isreal true friend:thumb:

It takes a lot to have a large nation like India committed to any one side. Japan had the
staunchest opposition to the Indian nuclear deal. Japan is also responsible in many
ways for the Chinese economic rise.

 

[average american]

China spends five times as much on its military as India, I expect when it comes to China India is going to keep its head down.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/China/India/Military

A good example is India has 950 tanks, China has 11,000

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/top10-military-powers-of-the-world.html

 

[no smoking]

why would all the details be made public?? Since India's support is meaningless
China does need to be concerned.

Well, China need to be concerned. But not India's military support but political support.

 

[average american]

3 Sides of World Politics

sir, US/West advocate a world which always fight with each other and needs help from West, finally. even if they included China in NPT, as a nuclear power country among P5s this way, then it was mainly meant to make China's neighbors understand that they need help from US/West while always being threatened from China. and geo-political experts do know that regardless any type of threat from China, there is no reason to surrender our sovereignty to US/West, no matter what....

and with my Russian friends, I have got more knowledge to deal with those tricks which make make US/West threatened with China, and hence asking for help from Russia, and also from India this way. there are 3 sides of War Politics of world, one which is aggressive, the second one which is on defensive side, and the 3rd one which takes benefits out of the conflicts between the first two. ..... US/West always want two neighbor Asian countries to fight with each others and ask for help from US/West this way, while we are working in the direction to bring China against them in such a way that US/West will finally have to do what we tell them :thumb:

A person can ask me to do something I may or may not do it, but they take their life in their hands when they tell me to do something Same with America befor we would be ordered to do something I would rather see the earth be a radioactive cinder.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Well, China need to be concerned. But not India's military support but political support.

Can you provide a link for military support claim? Security pacts between nations
Are usually defense related.

 

[arya]

well we will do what ever we can do for them

 

[hello_10]

A person can ask me to do something I may or may not do it, but they take their life in their hands when they tell me to do something Same with America befor we would be ordered to do something I would rather see the earth be a radioactive cinder.

there was a time when Indians were considered 'totally' inferior, just 2-3 years before. but now at least we know that Indian origins are the richest in America and Britain both, the highest qualified and mostly talented too. there was a time when Western superiority based on being white/christian/western were quite 'obvious', but now we do know, how western women try for 'rich' asians, while Americans/British are just not interested in their own country, want to leave from there as they have lost that pride, due to being heavily indebted and mainly because of their current state. along with high growth rate of India, which has made more Middle Class than its total population at 1947, an emerging economy which will only go up. Im running many threads in this regard, check them on the bottom..........

look, no one want to do prostitution but if you have to then slowly slowly you get habituated of it. just wait for few more years and you will have similar experience as an American- British

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/americas/44014-rise-neo-nazi-groups-usa-8.html

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/europe-russia/43996-uk-eurozone-crisis-live-4.html

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...y-impact-westernization-indian-culture-3.html

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...indu-americans-rank-top-education-income.html

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...061-india-china-gain-reverse-brain-drain.html

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-s-transition-receiver-donor-foreign-aid.html

 

[average american]

there was a time when Indians were considered 'totally' inferior, just 2-3 years before. but now at least we know that Indian origins are the richest in America and Britain both, the highest qualified and mostly talented too. there was a time when Western superiority based on being white/christian/western were quite 'obvious', but now we do know, how western women try for 'rich' asians, while Americans/British are just not interested in their own country, want to leave from there as they have lost that pride, due to being heavily indebted and mainly because of their current state. along with high growth rate of India, which has made more Middle Class than its total population at 1947, an emerging economy which will only go up. Im running many threads in this regard, check them on the bottom..........

look, no one want to do prostitution but if you have to then slowly slowly you get habituated of it. just wait for few more years and you will have similar experience as an American- British

I seldom if ever see an American women with an Asian or Indian,,I see a lot more american women with blacks whom they consider much more masculine then Asians or Indians. I expect if you have 1.4 biliion people and you take the best and the brightest, usually rich by Indian standards, and educated them up the yin yang and send them to american they would do pretty good for them selves and we are greatful.

Heres a list of 162 countries listed from 1 to 162 as far as being the best place for women, USA ranks 8,,, India list 141
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-worst-countries-for-women-the-full-list.html

 

[hello_10]

I seldom if ever see an American women with an Asian or Indian,,I see a lot more american women with blacks whom they consider much more masculine then Asians or Indians. I expect if you have 1.4 biliion people and you take the best and the brightest, usually rich by Indian standards, and educated them up the yin yang and send them to american they would do pretty good for them selves and we are greatful.

yaah, nowdays more American women, with their 'lone family' kids, are either seen near the food stamps or preferring the 'oldest' business. we do know, except beer and prostitutes, we import almost everything in US, UK, Australia, Canada, as per the local talks i used to be part of .....

=>

Over a quarter of US kids on food stamps

Almost 20 million children out of 73.9 million under the age of 18 were in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), or food stamps, in 2011, according to data from the United States Department of Agriculture and US Census Bureau.

Over a quarter of US kids on food stamps, under-50s dying young – reports — RT

=> Escape from America

=>

The real jobs numbers: 41% of America unemployed, 1 in 3 doesn't want work at all. Foreword by Fred Brownbill

For now, 58.7 per cent of American adults are working if the actual employment-population ratio is taken into consideration, leaving about 82 million, or almost 41 per cent of people unemployed. Only 8 per cent, however, are even interested in work, leaving 33 per cent of Americans not only jobless — but with no desire for work.

Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee released findings this week showing that the government spent roughly $1.03 trillion on welfare programs last year, funding 83 separate efforts to provide assistance to Americans. Days earlier, a separate study out of Capitol Hill revealed that the number of people enrolled to receive federal assistance by way of food stamps has hit a new record high with roughly 47 million US residents. (15% of population )

The real jobs numbers: 41% of America unemployed, 1 in 3 doesn't want work at all. Foreword by Fred Brownbill | Save America Foundation

 

[no smoking]

Can you provide a link for military support claim? Security pacts between nations
Are usually defense related.

Simply because india navy doesn't have the equipment, training and logistic support to fight a war 3000 kilometres away from Indian Ocean.

You need to provide the your evidence regarding your "secret" term in India-Japan security pact.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Simply because india navy doesn't have the equipment, training and logistic support to fight a war 3000 kilometres away from Indian Ocean.

You need to provide the your evidence regarding your "secret" term in India-Japan security pact.

They are part of a anti -chinese alliance set up by USA, would work with other nations
in the alliance. I not going to define what security means look up the definition then look up
pact definition.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

US, Japan, India & Australia announce military alliance against China - Topix

new 'strategic partnership' against China

Ships, aircraft and submarines from four countries begin week-long war games in the Bay of Bengal on 4 September.

It is the first flexing of muscles by the newly-formed "Quadrilateral Initiative", which brings together the US, Japan, India and Australia.

Singapore also has a small presence in the exercises.

Many analysts see the manoeuvres as efforts by a democratic coalition to "contain" rising Chinese power.

Although the participants deny this, Beijing seems to be increasingly worried.

Beijing unconvinced

When the four powers set up the initiative (informally named the Quad) in Manila last May, a deeply-concerned Beijing sent formal protests to the four governments.

Quad members reassured China that their "strategic partnership" was only aimed at maintaining regional security, and was not targeting any particular power.

A month later, Chinese President Hu Jintao sought clarification from Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the G8 summit in Germany. Although he received reiterations of peace and friendship, Chinese commentary suggests Beijing was not convinced.

Dubbed Malabar 07-02, these are the biggest joint manoeuvres Indian warships have participated in.

They were preceded by extensive discussions in Delhi.

In July, Australia's Defence Minister, Brendan Nelson, set out the policy framework of defence collaboration.

A month later, Admiral Russell Shalders, commander of the Australian navy, visited India - to work out the mechanics of collaboration and the details of the exercises.

Just days later, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe arrived in Delhi, offering substantial economic and commercial assistance if India agreed to anchor "an Asian arc of freedom" stretching across the Indian and Pacific Oceans and providing a democratic bulwark - presumably against non-democratic powers.

Defence coalition

As Mr Abe prepared to leave, his Defence Minister, Yoriko Koike, and the Commander of US Pacific Command, Admiral Timothy Keating, arrived in Delhi, to finalise details of defence co-operation and Malabar 07-02.

This flurry of senior-level exchanges and the size and complexity of the manoeuvres add weight to the arguments of those who say that the Quad is rapidly gelling into a defence coalition.

Two US aircraft carriers and one from India, as well as 11 other US ships will join more than a dozen vessels from India, Australia and Singapore to test out how well they can work together against common threats.

Although Quad members insist China has nothing to fear, a similar exercise (Malabar 07-01) involving US, Indian and Japanese warships churned the waters of the South China Sea in April.

Bilateral war games are not new for Quad members, but there seems recently to have been a new momentum.

Defence papers issued by all four governments have described China as a potential threat, and that combined with the launch of the Quad suggest a pattern of alliance-building activities that China cannot ignore.

Perhaps as a sign of things to come, 1,600 Chinese troops travelled to Russia's Ural mountains to join several thousand mostly Russian troops in "Peace Mission 2007" manoeuvres in August.

These ended as President Vladimir Putin hosted Hu and the presidents of four other Shanghai Co-operation Organisation countries (after their annual summit in the Kyrgyz capital, Bishkek) at the closing ceremony.

Mr Putin then announced the resumption of long-range bomber sorties towards Nato airspace, which had been suspended after the Soviet collapse.

The Cold War may not be back, but with trade and security tensions rising between the US, China and Russia, a chill wind seems to be blowing as Asia redesigns its strategic alignments.

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India, Japan focus on expanding defence cooperation - Livemint

India, Japan focus on expanding defence cooperation

The India-Japan talks come against the backdrop of Tokyo and Beijing being embroiled in an increasingly bitter territorial dispute over an East China Sea archipelago, called the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyu islands in China, which Japan nationalized in mid-September.
India over the weekend observed the fiftieth anniversary of a bruising war with China in 1962 that has resulted in ties being mired in suspicion and a lingering border dispute.

The potential for further expanding India-Japan defence and security partnership got a fillip last year when Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda lifted a longstanding national ban on arms exports. Under the new guidelines announced in Tokyo in December—just before a visit to India—Japan can sell weapons and military equipment for use in peace-keeping and peace-building operations. Japanese can also now jointly develop weapons systems and military technology with selected partner nations.

 

[cinoti]

India, Japan focus on expanding defence cooperation - Livemint

India, Japan focus on expanding defence cooperation

The India-Japan talks come against the backdrop of Tokyo and Beijing being embroiled in an increasingly bitter territorial dispute over an East China Sea archipelago, called the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyu islands in China, which Japan nationalized in mid-September.
India over the weekend observed the fiftieth anniversary of a bruising war with China in 1962 that has resulted in ties being mired in suspicion and a lingering border dispute.

The potential for further expanding India-Japan defence and security partnership got a fillip last year when Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda lifted a longstanding national ban on arms exports. Under the new guidelines announced in Tokyo in December—just before a visit to India—Japan can sell weapons and military equipment for use in peace-keeping and peace-building operations. Japanese can also now jointly develop weapons systems and military technology with selected partner nations.

hahah
Very entertaining.