J20 Stealth Fighter

[J20!]

You think your achievements are so much greater than India when you both face the same problems. Your turbofan is no better than Kaveri, the difference is the Indians aren't dumb enough to risk the lives of their pilots on engines that don't meet specs. Apparently China isn't so confident as they keep importing AL-31s by the hundreds. It is technically easier to make a non-afterburning turbofan like WS-20( based on WS-10), but China still has to import D-30s. That is enough evidence for anyone to prove that the Chinese core is rotten.

The Chinese MIC, has a much larger, better equipped and better financed R&D base than its Indian counterpart. The Chinese defense sector has a much larger, better financed, better developed and technologically superior manufacturing and industrial base.
That's not what I think, that's a simple statement of fact based on realities on the ground.

WS10A and the Kaveri are not even in the same class @Armand2REP. One is a 28000lbf turbofan engine whilst the other is a 19000lbf engine.

One engine has a production run over 500 examples and flies on over 200 air-frames in active service with two branches of the Chinese military and has a fully industrialized supply and maintenance chain to support it. The other has yet to fly on the jet it was meant to power and has never been mass produced.

Stop trying to derail this thread with your nonsense "CHINI-EXPERT". Your fantasies are getting tiresome to rebut.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Chinese MIC, has a much larger, better equipped and better financed R&D base than its Indian counterpart. The Chinese defense sector has a much larger, better financed, better developed and technologically superior manufacturing and industrial base.
That's not what I think, that's a simple statement of fact based on realities on the ground.

WS10A and the Kaveri are not even in the same class @Armand2REP. One is a 28000lbf turbofan engine whilst the other is a 19000lbf engine.

One engine has a production run over 500 examples and flies on over 200 air-frames in active service with two branches of the Chinese military and has a fully industrialized supply and maintenance chain to support it. The other has yet to fly on the jet it was meant to power and has never been mass produced.

Stop trying to derail this thread with your nonsense "CHINI-EXPERT". Your fantasies are getting tiresome to rebut.

China is well known for throwing money down empty holes, or empty buildings or empty airports ect. As far as results, the proof is in the import figures from Russia as to how well that is going. That's not what I think, that's a simple statement of fact based on realities on the ground.

If you have 500 samples of reliable engines then why isn't AL-31F, and now AL-41F being excluded from the import list? Why is D-30 added when a non-afterburning core is easier to make? You keep buying these things from Russia yet claim to be self sufficient. Your claims don't add up... mine do.

The type of engine used is very important to this discussion, as well as the future of the programme.

 

[aditya10r]

Been through the last 20-22 pages.

Chinese trolls last more than chinese jet engines.

 

[J20!]

China is well known for throwing money down empty holes, or empty buildings or empty airports ect. As far as results, the proof is in the import figures from Russia as to how well that is going. That's not what I think, that's a simple statement of fact based on realities on the ground.

If you have 500 samples of reliable engines then why isn't AL-31F, and now AL-41F being excluded from the import list? Why is D-30 added when a non-afterburning core is easier to make? You keep buying these things from Russia yet claim to be self sufficient. Your claims don't add up... mine do.

The type of engine used is very important to this discussion, as well as the future of the programme.

As stated before, being an "expert" in matters concerning "Chini's" you will no doubt know that there are currently more than 100 SU-27SK's/J11A's in the PLAAF's inventory, as well as 90+ SU30MKK's in PLAAF and PLANAF service. Not to mention more than 300 in service J10A/B/C's.

All these aircraft, many which where purchased/produced in the 2000's fly with AL31F's or AL31FN's(in the J10's case). To keep the above-mentioned fleets operable, it therefore equates that theremust be a long lead contract for the purchase of replacement engines when engine life-cycles come to an end and can no longer be refurbished. Being an "expert" you will know that engine life-cycles are much lower than the lifetime of an air-frame.

With regards to the D30-KP-2 purchases, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that China operates 20+ IL76MD's, IL76-based KJ2000 AWACS and IL78 tankers which all run on D-30-KP-2 engines. In addition to these air-frames, the PLAAF also operates newly commissioned Y20A's which also run on D30-KP-2's and are still coming off the production line.

i don't understand why it is necessary to explain to a self proclaimed military expert why the acquisition of replacement items are necessary or why such orders should be in long-lead contract form. Are you suggesting that the PLAAF stop ordering AL31F's and D30-KP-2 engines then retire air-frames with valuable flight-hours still left on them?

But I realize that you're simply trolling to side track fr(om the fact that the J20 is finally being tested with a WS10 variant. Which seems to irk you for some reason.

Where is it written that designing and producing a non-afterburning turbofan is easier than producing an afterburning engine? In CHINI-EXPERT school? Again, why are you trolling?

 

[J20!]

LOL.... hopeless loser..
the others in the world are advancing , the loser could only whining there....
but this scene is quite enjoyable for us...

---------------------
the new and latest prototype of J-20 project, the PT-2021

the high speed taxi happened yesterday and the maiden flight took place this afternoon around 1pm. it lasted around 27 minutes...

the first show of WS-10B powered J20 ... the serrated edges of the nozzle is the another highlight.

Not of the best quality, but here's is a GIF of prototype 2021's first flight:

Hope we eventually get the specifications of the engines mounted on this air-frame. T:W ratio, dry and wet thrust statistics, engine weight etc.

 

[albertshen]

I am not equating India with China...nor i am denying Chinese technological advances....i am only stating that Chinese media often overhypes their achievements....Like the exaggeration of new light tank and many things like that...

Just like Indian did with their decade-old Tejas and Atrash-jun tank.

 

[albertshen]

You guys can stick with the thought that all Chinese made product is bad. Indian can only whine and itself made no progress over the decade. It can only buy, buy, and buy. Just look at your military equipment. It's a MESS! from US, Russia, France, Isreal can you even make anything your own?

 

[albertshen]

Been through the last 20-22 pages.

Chinese trolls last more than chinese jet engines.

I bet there are few to none Chinese because they simply don't care.

 

[albertshen]

China is well known for throwing money down empty holes, or empty buildings or empty airports ect. As far as results, the proof is in the import figures from Russia as to how well that is going. That's not what I think, that's a simple statement of fact based on realities on the ground.

If you have 500 samples of reliable engines then why isn't AL-31F, and now AL-41F being excluded from the import list? Why is D-30 added when a non-afterburning core is easier to make? You keep buying these things from Russia yet claim to be self sufficient. Your claims don't add up... mine do.

The type of engine used is very important to this discussion, as well as the future of the program.

Throwing money on infrastructure is better than spending money on wasteful projects such as Tejas and Arjun tank. If the Indian government are willing to spend money on infrastructure instead of buying weapons from other countries, Indian cities will not look like a shthole. Yes, China is still buying some hardware from Russia but at the same time, they are spending money on developing their own engine.

 

[albertshen]

You think your achievements are so much greater than India when you both face the same problems. Your turbofan is no better than Kaveri, the difference is the Indians aren't dumb enough to risk the lives of their pilots on engines that don't meet specs. Apparently China isn't so confident as they keep importing AL-31s by the hundreds. It is technically easier to make a non-afterburning turbofan like WS-20( based on WS-10), but China still has to import D-30s. That is enough evidence for anyone to prove that the Chinese core is rotten.

The Chinese don't just brag about their achievements just because of their military. This country is once extremely poor with life expectancy less than 40 years. If you compared life from 1980 to 2017 it is a night and day different. If you compared Indian in 1980 to 2017 the difference is not as dramatic. Just take Xiamen, the BRICS host city as an example. Just take a look at this 2nd tier city, I bet this city is better than 99% of the city in India. In fact, most Chinese cities are better and more modernized than most Indian cities. This is not a result of throwing money at random building or airport. You even mentioned "empty airport". NO, there is no empty airport in China. As to pouring money, take Shenzen as an example and I don't need to say anything more about this you guys should know.

 

[Armand2REP]

i don't understand why it is necessary to explain to a self proclaimed military expert why the acquisition of replacement items are necessary or why such orders should be in long-lead contract form. Are you suggesting that the PLAAF stop ordering AL31F's and D30-KP-2 engines then retire air-frames with valuable flight-hours still left on them?

I don't understand why it is so hard for you to accept that WS-10 was designed to replace Russian engines when the evidence is painfully obvious.

Now I am just looking for a picture of one powering your grandma's wheelchair.

I am suggesting you take the engine you made to replace Russian engines and ..........

Actually replace Russian engines. But that is not possible because........

 

[gadeshi]

Well, there are rumors about Chinese want to buy Al-41F-1S (117S) instead of Al-31F Series 3...

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[leap-x]

Well, there are rumors about Chinese want to buy Al-41F-1S (117S) instead of Al-31F Series 3...

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Most unlikely. Actually 117S is not good enough for J-20. The only reason to buy 117S is WS10X production can not meet requirement of both J16/J11 and J-20.

 

[nimo_cn]

I know you don't read Russian so I saved you the trouble. Am I supposed to tell anything from this blurry picture of WS-10? Does China make the worst cameras on the planet?

really, you are complaining about the blur? AGAIN? you never learn, do you?

I still recall that in 2009, when the first picture of j20 was posted, you said the same thing that the blurry picture was a failed PS job.

 

[Armand2REP]

really, you are complaining about the blur? AGAIN? you never learn, do you?

I still recall that in 2009, when the first picture of j20 was posted, you said the same thing that the blurry picture was a failed PS job.

It is 2017 now, I expect your cameras to get better. That first photo was of a blur in the air, it didn't fly until 2011 so it was indeed a PS.

 

[aditya10r]

It is 2017 now, I expect your cameras to get better. That first photo was of a blur in the air, it didn't fly until 2011 so it was indeed a PS.

Btw my made in china Canon camera just went Kaput.

Hope that info comes in handy.

#chinesetrollslastmore

 

[gadeshi]

really, you are complaining about the blur? AGAIN? you never learn, do you?

I still recall that in 2009, when the first picture of j20 was posted, you said the same thing that the blurry picture was a failed PS job.

It is clearly visible that inner nozzles on photo belong to D-30F-10/11 - a MiG-31BM and S-37 Berkut power plant inside a Chinese outer nozzle cowling

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[gadeshi]

Most unlikely. Actually 117S is not good enough for J-20. The only reason to buy 117S is WS10X production can not meet requirement of both J16/J11 and J-20.

I haven't mebtioned J-20 in context of 117S purchases. I've mentioned Al-31F related info.
And it's a quite obvious thing that 117S will be used on T-10 platform only (if Chinese won't order lower gearbox version for J-10).

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[shiphone]

It is clearly visible that inner nozzles on photo belong to D-30F-10/11 - a MiG-31BM and S-37 Berkut power plant inside a Chinese outer nozzle cowling

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

please...I have noticed your hobby of big mouth on china stuff but I always chose not correct those funny statements... maybe an exception today...lol

imported D30 is the version without afterburner for H-6K and Y-20.

and It's clearly visible that you know nothing about the so called inner nozzle of WS-10 serial...

BTW...as the part of 24 Su35 contract and spare parts, the AL41F1S arrived in last november just before the delivery of first batch of Su35s for the ground maintance training purpose.

 

[Armand2REP]

BTW...as the part of 24 Su35 contract and spare parts, the AL41F1S arrived in last november just before the delivery of first batch of Su35s for the ground maintance training purpose.

That is what you are calling ripping apart an item for reverse engineering these days?