'It's counter-Islamic terrorism, not Hindu terror'

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Oracle, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    On May 3, Suresh Joshi, a joint secretary of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, issued a statement condemning the attempt to link the arrests of suspects in the bomb blasts in Ajmer and Hyderabad by the Special Investigation Team with his organisation.
    Joshi's statement claimed that the RSS only believed in the Constitutional path. It said the RSS would not support or protect anyone indulging in violent activities. The crucial fact that emerged from the short statement was that the accused have been removed from any posts of responsibility in the RSS.

    Joshi also demanded that accused be investigated, but innocent people should not be harassed. The RSS is obviously worried. The organisation supported by millions and hated by millions has never been above controversy. But the arrests and investigation of some RSS office-bearers and activists is a matter too serious to be forgotten after a media statement.

    After all, Devender Gupta, who was arrested by the Rajasthan police in April in connection with the 2007 Ajmer blasts, is now also an accused in the Mecca Masjid blasts in Hyderabad that same year.

    Gupta was an RSS office-bearer from Bihar. According to the police he is linked to Sunil Joshi, an RSS pracharak in Mhow, Madhya Pradesh, who was murdered in December 2007.

    Sunil Joshi was connected to Sadhvi Pragya Singh and Lieutenant Colonel Srikant Purohit, who were arrested in the Malegaon blasts case.

    Sunil Joshi, who had been sacked from the RSS for his radical views, was associated with Abhinav Bharat, an outfit accused of inspiring the radical group who have resorted to terrorism.

    The Central Bureau of Investigation is on the look out for Sandeep Dange and Ramachandra Kalasangar, who are allegedly part of the terrorist group.

    Ram Madhav, the RSS's media savvy and sober face and member of its national executive, vehemently denies the organisation's direct or indirect involvement with these cases of terrorism and claims that his organisation is not infected by such radical elements.

    He spoke to Rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt.

    It is reported that the RSS is quite worried by the investigation against its members in three states -- Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh. This investigation is against an RSS office-bearer and the allegation is that he indulged in terrorism. Is the RSS worried?

    Absolutely not. We only said that there are certain agencies investigating certain incidents. One of the functionaries (of the RSS) Devender Gupta was arrested by the Anti Terrorism Squad from Bihar. He was working as a Vibhag Pracharak there.

    We said we want an impartial investigation and we don't want innocents to be troubled. We told them that if necessary, we will co-operate. If there is any evidence against any individual, then take necessary action, we told them.

    Don't you think it's a telling story that someone from your organisation is being investigated for such a heinous crime?

    This is the first of its kind that someone working with the RSS is accused of involvement. But this is only the charge. The agency will have to establish the evidence in court. The RSS doesn't support nor protect anybody involved in such activities.

    I am asking again, are you not worried that the people arrested are your office-bearers? So far, you were blaming Islamic terrorism. What is this if not Hindu terrorism?

    Number one, it is not a matter for us to worry about for these are charges against one person. He is arrested now. Let the charges be proved. We do not believe in such activities, so don't assume that the RSS is involved in it.

    If some individual is found to be involved in some manner, maybe he is not directly involved or maybe he is, let the investigation get completed.

    We don't know the charges yet. When we know about it, then we will certainly think about it. But beyond that there is nothing.

    Let me talk about the other part of your question. This vicarious satisfaction of people like you is amazing. The event (arrests of Hindus) doesn't mitigate the fact that there exists something called Islamic terrorism in this world, not just in India.

    There is something called global terrorism that is inspired by the ideology of jihad. It exists.
    Just because someone associated with the RSS or Bajrang Dal or any organisation gets arrested, it doesn't mean there is no Islamic terrorism. How can you say that?

    I am saying that there is no Hindu terrorism. For a simple reason -- at the most some Hindus have indulged in such acts which have to be condemned by everyone.

    At the most you can call these people's action as counter-Islamic terrorism. It is not at all Hindu terrorism.

    Nobody is indulging in terrorism in the name of Hinduism as Hinduism doesn't support or encourage such things.

    How can you say it is counter-Islamic terrorism when Hinduism doesn't permit even counter-terrorism?

    I am saying the same thing. I am saying Hinduism doesn't sanction any such things.

    Hinduism and terrorism cannot go together.

    At least three major bomb blasts are being investigated for Hindu radical links. There are many people being investigated. All of them are linked with either the RSS or its ideology.

    Remember one thing you are insisting that there are many people arrested or investigated. The police arrested 11 people for the Malegaon blasts and three for the Ajmer blasts. Only one, Devender Gupta, happened to be our Vibhag Pracharak, who is normally in charge of three districts.

    Is it not true that Ramanarayan Kalsangra is an RSS member. He is absconding.

    No way! If you go by technical facts, we don't have membership. Nobody is a member of the RSS. I am admitting that one functionary of the RSS was arrested. We want the facts to come out and until then we don't want to commit either way.

    All other arrested people are linked to the RSS ideology.

    What do you mean by that? They could be participating in other political activities too.

    As a responsible organisation and as responsible citizens, we say that we don't defend any acts of terrorism nor we are going to protect anybody.

    Are you not shocked by Gupta's arrest? He was one of you.

    It is true that someone who was our Vibhag Pracharak is being charged. It is an unfortunate thing.

    Mere investigation against one individual cannot make us disturbed or worried.

    You are asking me repeatedly, but please tell me what is the charge against him? Is it proved?

    The charge against him is that Gupta helped a person called Sunil Joshi, who is dead. The entire allegation is indirect. The police claim Gupta helped somebody who was supposed to be behind the violence.


    What do you have to say about Abhinav Bharat? Most of those who have been arrested are directly involved with it.

    We have nothing to do with Abhinav Bharat.

    Was Sunil Joshi a member of the RSS?

    Yes, he was our pracharak. He was removed from the RSS in 2003.

    Has the core group of the RSS debated about these so-called Hindu terrorists getting arrested?

    There is no Hindu terrorism.

    There is nothing going on to sit and discuss. Since you are asking so seriously, I will give you the perspective. All this began sometime in 2008 in and around Indore, you can say Madhya Pradesh.

    There were some arrests after the Malegaon blasts in 2008. Till 2008 there was nothing.

    What does it suggest? If there is any involvement of any group, that might be a small group somewhere. The police are investigating that group, they will find out. But it is not a pan-Indian phenomenon. There is nothing to worry.

    There were some incidents in which allegedly some group is involved. The group is being investigated and interrogated by the agencies.

    Nowhere else are any other such incidents taking place.

    I am saying that none of our functionaries will be allowed to get involved in such activities. If anybody is found involved, he will be immediately removed.

    The RSS is a cadre-based party which inculcates certain views and ideology of India and its future. Then how come this kind of thing has happened -- what you called an 'aberration'? So far you were known for your training and discipline.

    If the charges are taken to be true -- and they are levelled against one individual of the RSS, then I can say it is an aberration.

    The RSS has half a million people who have some responsibility or role in the organisation. At least 6 million, 7 million people are formally associated with it. It is a huge organisation. Anybody can walk in and join our activities.

    Most people will not be charitable about this 'aberration'. They would say the RSS has a certain ideology that is isolating Muslims and creates a kind of 'us versus them' divide.

    In reality, even if the RSS is not involved behind the group who indulged in terrorism, your ideology was responsible for leading them to this violence.


    This argument is as old as the RSS. It is weird logic. Now you are saying ideology is responsible, not you.

    I am saying that what you understand is not our ideology.

    Our ideology is unity and strengthening of Indians. We want a strong India and a united India.

    Do you teach young minds not to be violent? Do you ensure that?

    We teach them the great principles of Hinduism.

    http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2...nterview-rss-ideologue-on-hindu-terrorism.htm
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Keyword "terrorism". Then you can add all the prefixes, doesn't matter. By the way to that gentleman in the interview, islam too doesn't teach terrorism. Its the interpretation and the kind of preacher that makes or breaks things, I am reminded of the movie my name is khan and the scene in the mosque where the radical has his version and the principal character his. Now chose between the two.
     
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  4. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    This man's responses are laughable. His outfit may not sport virulence that is global in nature or directly faith based unlike his radicalized Muslim nut job counterparts; but it doesn't change the fact that he is associated with an organization that carries out terrorist activities, and who's crimes are no less punishable.

    As a side note, I am unable to fathom the idiocy of the dummies who either support or sympathize with organizations like the RSS and its numerous offshoots. Based on the explosive Pakistani experience next door, anyone in India (or anywhere else for that matter) who supports organized indoctrination and proliferation of terrorism, religious fanaticism and religious fascism is nothing short of being criminally stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
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  5. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Firstly please do not interpret my views as sympathetic to those so-called "Hindu terror" outfits. They're terrorists, and should be dealt with like terrorists.

    That said, where does a vast nearly-billion strong Hindu population that's treated to the government's deliberate inaction towards dealing with Muslim terrorists, find its vent? The government can spend all it wants on counter-terrorism, but ideologically, the Indian Government does NOT see "Islamic Terrorism" without the "Islamic" prefix, and under the pretense of being labelled "a secular government", does everything it can to keep the Muslim vote-bank at peace. Now I completely acknowledge that moderate Muslims don't approve of terrorism, but isn't the government's methods being overly suggestive of it being the other way round? And in the process, isn't this only contributing to communal disharmony rather than "secularism"? Doesn't a deliberately-inactive government then induce vigilantism/terrorism among Hindus?

    If there's anyone, absolutely anyone who is to blame for the mushrooming of "Hindu" terror outfits, or even attaching prefixes, it's the Government of the day. Hindu terror groups are consequences, not problems.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
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  6. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    /\/\/\ You are right. But I would like to make the point that ordinary Hindu citizens do not have the need to pick up arms and kill innocent Indian Muslims. We are not in Pakistan and certainly not Pakistanis. Non violence is a virtue we Indians cultivated and gave to this world. Terrorism by anyone, irrespective of caste, creed or religion is a No No, whatever he/she's explanations are. There are other peaceful ways.
     
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  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    What inaction of government has led to the rise of "hindu" terror?? Lame excuse actually. We have "leaders" not in uncertain terms wanting "hindus" to turn to violence. The topic of afzal guru is one reason used very often. Is that the be all of government action that will put the so called "hindu" terror to rest?
     
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  8. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Any entity rejecting Indian constitution while using violence is outlaw regardless of its purpose or grounds of foundation. Tomorrow after suppressing this 'Islamic Terrorism', Hindu Terrorists will fight among themselves in camps of Brahmin-Marathas, North-South etc.

    Its a plain BS excuse IMO.
     
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  9. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    I second that. Infact I want all the reservations and all BS to go away. That creates more division amongst us.
     
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  10. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I was speaking in general and not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

    There really isn't much the GoI can do against Islamic terrorism emanating domestically or spilling over from the border. The primary reason for the ineffectiveness is dysfunction; both governmental and societal, basically a situation where hardly anything ever actually works (security related or otherwise). Now how much blame is to be put upon the ruling class or the society at large is a separate philosophical issue. What is clear however that this is not solely the government's fault, the citizenry shares part of the blame.

    Placating the Muslim populace for the sake of vote bank politics exacts a huge toll; that however has lot more to do with socioeconomic development and not really terrorism or radicalism, at least not directly. I don't think I get what exactly you're referring to when you mention the government's inaction inducing Hindu vigilantism and terrorism vis a vis Islamic terrorism.

    I really don't see a link. There really is no reason for Hindu fanatics to take matters into their own hands since there's no real target to hit when it comes to retribution. This is why we end up with messy pogroms, riots, mobs, lynching and bomb blasts which are designed with the hope of killing more Muslims than Hindus.

    Blaming the Indian government for the rise of Hindu fundamentalism is just as invalid an excuse as when Muslim terrorists blame Kashmir, Israel and George Bush to justify their acts.
     
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  11. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Nah, Afzhal Guru is not the only case. In general, the Goverment does not dispense political will required when for conducting large-scale surveillance and searches (for busting Pakistani sleeper-cells, which are suspected to be taking cover in predominantly Muslim parts of the city), no political will for making preventive arrests, all so it could keep the Muslim vote-bank in good terms.

    We all know Ajmal Kasab is going to end up like Afzal, and that there's a "long queue for execution and proper judicial process in place" for those two is Jersey-grade bullshit.

    Once again, there's no excuse for terrorism, and that these outfits must be neutralized ASAP. But a lot of communal bad-blood is going to be shed in the process. It's the government which has created those prefixes, and the government which is nurturing them by its methods.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  12. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    "it s counter Islamic terrorist" by killing innocents................ they desperately want to justify their actions, all those who are responsible should be send behind bars.
     
  13. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Any terror group, anywhere is a problem. And am sure all terror groups portray themselves as the "consequence"; perfect example in the likes of the Khalistani Sikh terrorists who also describe themselves as consequences, not the problem itself. Than there are the communist guerrillas in the North East, who again, are self-styled consequential movements. Also, totally agree that vote-bank politics is wrong though that doesn't mean that it justifies terrorism; otherwise, just imagine the amount of terror groups which would prop up all over the country, from ethnic vote-bank to caste vote-bank to religious vote-bank; that list is very long. As for secular, this country has never been fully secular, in the terms, that it has never really applied one common law for all its citizens in its constitution. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, Muslims, have all been identified individually in the Indian constitution from day one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
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  14. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Sigh..nobody is trying to give validity to Hindu terror groups here, not me. But it's the government's soft policy towards Pakistan, and overly selective policy when dealing with terror groups from minorities, that has given a plank to take advantage of, and spread terror. In essence, it's the government's methods that are pretty much inducing Hindu terror groups. Any clown out there is able to cite the government's flawed internal security, foreign, and justice-delivery policies and try to justify his acts.

    There's no need for "hum sab ek hai" jingoism here, that's not my point, and I didn't disagree with secularism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  15. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

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    I fail to understand all the hoopla going on in this thread. He condemned the attacks and said that anyone found guilty of terrorism will be removed from his organization. That is all he is expected to do. He is not bending or breaking the law. An organization cannot, should not, and will not cease to exist, just because it has one or two bad members. However, if the sleuths find that RSS is a hotbed of people who are a red flag to internal security, they should by all means close it down. This is not the case yet, so RSS stays.
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Tarun,

    Why should their be this "Hindu" Terror against Indian Muslims for the misdeeds committed by Pakistan who happen to be Muslims?? So the Indian muslims have to bear the brunt of Pakistan sponsored terror?
     
  17. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

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    Oh, and by the way, Hinduism permits counter-terrorism. Its called Dharm Yuddha. Pretty much a 'response or counter-op' to any terrorism, islamic or otherwise, because terrorism brainwashes, slanders and intimidates. Hinduism is not buddhism and should not be considered such. Gandhi's principles were more Buddhist than Hindu. However, Dharm Yuddha is not possible by vigilantes, because they don't have either the know-how or the resources to go after terrorists.
     
  18. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    They should do it in Pakistan not in India.
     
  19. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

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    They should do it everywhere they are threatened. The drawback here is that these terrorists run away after committing heinous acts. Its not about honor anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  20. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

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    If this is to be allowed, then the Islamist would start saying their terrorism is 'Counter-Westren' terrorism or 'Counter-Jewish' terrorism. Everybody has a reason for becoming a terrorist, but that hardly matters.

    Also how the hell is it consider 'counter-islamic' terrorism, when they are just bombing innocent Indians going to Mosques. I mean its not like they are killing LeT or Jaish, these guys are just killing fellow Indians.
     
  21. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    The problem is that the Islamic Terrorists justify their terrorism by quoting Islam, the other terrorists like the Sikh, Hindu, Christian don't justify terrorism by quoting their religion but as a response to the prevailing circumstances.
     

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