Israeli soldiers seen standing by as settlers use live fire against Palestinians

KS

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I am with you on the inherent combativeness of Islam. But the Israeli-Palestinian issue is not really a religious issue. It is territorial (for the Israelis) and a matter of national survival (for the Palestinians). This issue however is being used by Islamic fundamentalists across the region as an excellent rallying cry to galvanize popular Arab support around their brand. The worst thing is that the increasingly brazen land grab of the Eastern European Jews (new migrants to Israel) is making it harder and harder for moderate Arabs (Muslim Arabs) to argue against radical elements within their religion in the region and to support a much constructive approach/accommodation towards Israel.
It is as much a survival issue to Israelis as it is to Palestinians.

The Right to Return for instance which is considered a center piece of Palestinian demands would make the jews a minority in their own land and we all know what happens to minorities when Islam gains upper hand.

That being said , whatever they are, Palestinians do have a right to live as a state, side by side with Israel and hope they stop being pawns in the power games which the Iranis and Arbis are playing at their cost.
 
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pankaj nema

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Israel vacated GAZA completely and totally

That was an experiment done to see the reaction of the Islamic world

What happened ? You have rocket attacks from Gaza ; and smuggling of weapons from the
Egyptian border

The people of Gaza suffer when Israel hits them or enforces blockades

But this is what their MASTERS want The whole Anti Israel battle is controlled
from Riyadh Damascus Tehran Beirut and NOW from Egypt and Jordan too
 

pankaj nema

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If suppose Israel was to vacate West Bank too then West Bank being several times bigger
than Gaza would be Afghanistan like Haven for Islamists

When Gaza experiment has FAILED why will West Bank be friendly towards the Israelis
 

asianobserve

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Israel vacated GAZA completely and totally

That was an experiment done to see the reaction of the Islamic world

What happened ? You have rocket attacks from Gaza ; and smuggling of weapons from the
Egyptian border

The people of Gaza suffer when Israel hits them or enforces blockades

But this is what their MASTERS want The whole Anti Israel battle is controlled
from Riyadh Damascus Tehran Beirut and NOW from Egypt and Jordan too

Israel is partly to blame. It has consistently weakened the prestige of the Palestinian Authority either directly or directly. This is being exacerbated by the expanding settlements in the West Bank.

Of course the biggest blame goes to radical Palestinian elements (which now seems to be the mainstream). But this is a given factor in the equation. The challenge is how to work out a solution with them or around them (in case they're too unreasonable). The Israeli government has so far been unsuccessful in this respect.
 
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ejazr

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Again, although this is all off topic, some facts need to be repeated

There is borad and majority support among Arabs on the two state solution. I don't know why some people can't accept this basic fact. On top of that what is really important is that there is POLITICAL WILL among the Arab countries to accept the two state solution. This is shown in action by the public declaration and approval of the Arab Peace initiative led by Saudis since 2001. This had unanimous approval and included not just recognition of Israel but also full diplomatic and economic relations with it. In actioning a peace deal, political will as shown by Egypt and Jordan is sometimes more important than public opinion and here you have BOTH.

Here is a 2010 poll from six major Arab countries on this issue.
Poll: 85% agree to two-state solution - JPost - Middle East
WASHINGTON – A new poll finds that 85 percent of the Arab world would agree to a two-state solution with Israel and a plurality endorse a negotiated solution, though most doubt that such an outcome will happen.

Though 85% of those surveyed in six Arab countries said they were willing to support peace for a two-state solution in which Israel returned to the 1967 lines, including in Jerusalem, 55% thought Israel would not agree to give up the necessary territory, according to a poll by the Brookings Saban Center's Shibley Telhami, which was conducted by the University of Maryland in conjunction with Zogby International. Only 14% said Arabs should continue to fight even if Israel returned to the 1967 borders.

Besides, there is almost unanimous world opinion that recognises Palestinains right to self-determination as can be seen in the most recent Dec 2011 GA resolution on the right to self determination of Palestinians.

Right of the Palestinian people to self-determination - GA vote (Plenary) - Press release (Excerpts) (19 December 2011)
The draft resolution on the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination (document A/66/461) was adopted by a recorded vote of 182 in favour to 7 against, with 3 abstentions, as follows:
In favour: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against: Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, United States.

Abstain: Cameroon, South Sudan, Tonga.

Absent: Kiribati

Might I also add that Palestininans include Christians as well as Muslims and have been prominent politicans and activisits from the PLO times till today. If people can remove their Islam/Muslim bashing glasses and look at the issue objectively, they will realise that it is in the Israeli interests AND the Palestinians interests to adhere to the two state solution. Any other option is a disaster for Israel because it will be living within an apartheid system and ofcourse, the Palestinains have already been living under military rule for the past half a century.

Just visiting Israel is not enough to understand the conflict. You have to visit Gaza and West Bank as well (that is if you are allowed to do so )
 

pankaj nema

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Some time back Mr Ahmedi nijad President of Iran made a statement

That Israel should be RE LOCATED to Europe or North America

Why because The basic point is that Arabs and the entire Muslim world believes that Israel has
no right to exist at all and that ONE day Israel will be defeated and destroyed
by Muslims

The entire Islamic world is ONE when it comes to Israel

That is why we have Egypt Lebanon Syria Iran Saudi Pakistan ; WHO have absolutely nothing
to do with Israel ; that is Israel has not taken any part of their territory ; Hate Israel and want
its destruction

The Islamic world believes that the Entire area where Israel is located belongs to ONLY Muslims
 

asianobserve

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If suppose Israel was to vacate West Bank too then West Bank being several times bigger
than Gaza would be Afghanistan like Haven for Islamists

When Gaza experiment has FAILED why will West Bank be friendly towards the Israelis

The moderate branch of the Palestinian Authority has so far failed in Gaza. But this is not yet the case in West Bank. This may seem counter-intuitive but if Israel wants to have a lasting peace at least in this area (West Bank) then it needs to strengthen the PA so that it can have a credible peace agreement with it. This ever expanding settlements in the West Bank is simply not helping.
 
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asianobserve

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Some time back Mr Ahmedi nijad President of Iran made a statement

That Israel should be RE LOCATED to Europe or North America

Why because The basic point is that Arabs and the entire Muslim world believes that Israel has
no right to exist at all and that ONE day Israel will be defeated and destroyed
by Muslims

The entire Islamic world is ONE when it comes to Israel

That is why we have Egypt Lebanon Syria Iran Saudi Pakistan ; WHO have absolutely nothing
to do with Israel ; that is Israel has not taken any part of their territory ; Hate Israel and want
its destruction

The Islamic world believes that the Entire area where Israel is located belongs to ONLY Muslims


Note that Israel only needs to have peace with the Palestinian government (at least the most dominant and should be the most moderate). The rest of the Arab World's opinion in the end will not matter if the Palestinians themselves decide to enter into a lasting peace with Israel.

I have good reason to believe that a large section of Palestinian moderates partly blame their Arab brothers for their problems. But faced between the frying pan and the flame they would naturally choose dancing in the pan (with their Arab neighbors).
 
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maomao

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20-30 % of Israel is Muslim, North and North East is muslim majority in Israel......How many neighboring Islamic countries have Jews as their citizens, that too with equal rights? (lol, funny shit, liberals love to ignore this shyt)

How many Israeli muslims - would love to leave Israel, and live with their pious Ummah of neighboring Islamic Dar-ul-Islams? (lol this is funny too)

Black September? Hell yeah, the Palestinians where wiped out by their own Ummah, more have been killed by muslims than Jews! (Oh man this got to be that the eye opener, however, I expect nothing from....)

Change of Demographics of Lebanon and then its consequences on Christians? (that gotto hurt)

If given a choice to all of ya 'Secular' flag-bearers, where would you go and live Israel or an Islamic nation? Think before you open your mouth against Israel and favor the creating of another Islamic nation in the middle east led by certified Kuffar Blood Lusting Terrorists! (Catch 22)

While majority of Israelis are Liberal and Secular -- we all know what Palestinians and their brethren are? (Yeah I am a Zionist Yindooo baniya)

Bring on the armchair self-inflicting liberal - Blabbering (aka BS) ! ;)
 
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ejazr

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@pankaj nema

Since when did Ahmedjinad become the spokesperson of the entire Muslim world. He doesn't even represent everyone in Iran. So you conflating his political rhetoric to the entire Muslim world is ridiculous.

In my post I gave you links and proofs of the Arab political leadership lead by Saudi Arabia who have approved and got all Arab league countries including the Palestinian Authority to endorse the Arab Peace initiative. I gave you a link of a 2010 poll of how 85% of six major Arab countries had supported the two state solution. But you still choose to ignore this and come up with your own fanatastical claims.
 

ejazr

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Note that Israel only needs to have peace with the Palestinian government (at least the most dominant and should be the most moderate). The rest of the Arab World's opinion in the end will not matter if the Palestinians themselves decide to enter into a lasting peace with Israel.

I have good reason to believe that a large section of Palestinian moderates partly blame their Arab brothers for their problems. But faced between the frying pan and the flame they would naturally choose dancing in the pan (with their Arab neighbors).
asianobserve,

The Arab League has atleast since 2002 given a formal endorsement to the two state solution plan. This is still on the table. The Arab Peace Plan led by King Abdulla of Saudi Arabia, not only calls for full recognition of Israel in return but also full diplmatic and trade relations as well. Here is a political commitment that is being made in publicly so why the need to second guess what they would do?

Here is the Arab Peace Plan text first aired in 2002 and reiterated in 2007

The Arab Peace Initiative

The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,

Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government,

Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel,

Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194.

III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.

For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit:

The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states.

After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option.

The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following:

* Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines.
* To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194.
* To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397.

In return, the Arab states assert the following:

* To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this.
* To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region.
* To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel.

The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future.

It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative.

The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council.
 

pankaj nema

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@pankaj nema

Since when did Ahmedjinad become the spokesperson of the entire Muslim world. He doesn't even represent everyone in Iran. So you conflating his political rhetoric to the entire Muslim world is ridiculous.

In my post I gave you links and proofs of the Arab political leadership lead by Saudi Arabia who have approved and got all Arab league countries including the Palestinian Authority to endorse the Arab Peace initiative. I gave you a link of a 2010 poll of how 85% of six major Arab countries had supported the two state solution. But you still choose to ignore this and come up with your own fanatastical claims.
Mr Ejaz ALL the two state solutions /proposals/ ideas that you have written about are
just pieces of paper

Before any long lasting and durable peace ie a TWO state solution to ever take place why cannot
ENTIRE Muslim world take the first few steps

1 Recognise Israel and establish embassies
2. Start trade
3. Stop assisting Hamas and Hezbollah
4 Make Iran give up its Nukes

Stop dreaming man Just the other day Egyptian Islamic brother hood has restarted its
old Conflict with Israel

And What problem has Turkey Saudi and Pakistan got with Israel

SO please accept this reality There can never be peace between Muslims and Jews
 

ejazr

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I detest and oppose when anyone says that Israel should be removed and not because Israel is the most powerful country and the only nuclear power in the ME and a country which has unconditional support of the US. I have argued personally among Muslims who don't know much about the issue on why Israel was created and how Israel basically comprised of the Jewish majority areas in the 1940s. Anyone who says that Jews in Israel today are not the real jews e.t.c. are missing the point. Jews existed in historical Palestine even before Israel. They have prosperous communties across the Arab and Persian world.

At the same time, I don't agree with people who say that just because most Palestinians are Muslims (and hence somehow evil) that they should either be ethnically clensed from the Arab majority regions of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem OR given a second class status where they don't have political rights which is their condition today. The Israeli Arabs living in proper Israel do have political rights ofcourse better than what we could say for many other Arab countries, but don't confuse and conflate their political rights to the Palestinans living in West Bank & Gaza who don't.

Also, although the Israeli settlements have been removed from Gaza, its entry and exit points including its sea coast are still controlled by the Israeli military and is effectively under its control. No one can go into or out of Gaza or import or export products from Gaza without Israeli approval. Similarly, if people want to go from Gaza to West Bank or between villages within the West Bank, you have to have permits and go through Israeli military checkpoints. This is why its an enromous cost not just to Palestinians but also for the Israelis to occupy and maintain territories which have historically had Arab majorities.

I hope people can undertand the ground realities of the situation rather than just make meaningless statements wether its Israeli bashing or Arab bashing.
 

ejazr

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Mr Ejaz ALL the two state solutions /proposals/ ideas that you have written about are
just pieces of paper

Before any long lasting and durable peace ie a TWO state solution to ever take place why cannot
ENTIRE Muslim world take the first few steps

1 Recognise Israel and establish embassies
2. Start trade
3. Stop assisting Hamas and Hezbollah
4 Make Iran give up its Nukes

Stop dreaming man Just the other day Egyptian Islamic brother hood has restarted its
old Conflict with Israel

And What problem has Turkey Saudi and Pakistan got with Israel

SO please accept this reality There can never be peace between Muslims and Jews
I though you were being reasonable but let me give one last try in bringin some sense into the debate

First, grow out of this notion that there is unified political Muslim opinion or force. Only loonies either Muslim loonies or anti-Muslim loonies think that this is true.

A negotiation is given and take. The "give" by the Arab countries is that they will recognise it and have trade relations with it. The "take" is that Israel will establish a Palestinan state. That should take care of point 1 and 2. Despite that some countries like Turkey, Egypt and Jordan among other already have diplomatic and trade ties and other have trade offices only like Qatar. Most GCC Arab countries including Pakistan have intelligence links with MOSSAD either directly or indirectly.

(3) Most Arab and Muslim countries actually DON'T assist HAMAS and Hizbullah. Its only Iran and to an extent Syria that helps them. Infact, if you have been following wikileaks the Saudis nontheless offered a creation of Muslim-led UN force to go into Lebanon and remove Hezbullah. When Israel tried to destroy Hezbullah in 2006, the Saudis enthusiastically supported it. Similarly HAMAS is quite isolated in the Arab world and its only Iran that helps it in propping it up.

(4) The Gulf Arab countries are actually more keen to get Iran rid of its nuclear program than Israel belive it or not. The GCC Arab countries are pretty much working with Israel in lockstep to force the US Congress to act on the Iran nukes issue.
The reality is that countries like Russia, China and India actually have more influence in making Iran give up its nuke program

Turkey, Saudi and Pakistan govt. have their ups and downs with Israel. Dont' go by the rhetoric on the street. During the 1980s, the MOSSAD was confiscating AK-47s from PLO activists and sending them to the ISI so that they can send it onwards to the Afghans to use against the Soviets.

And finally only the loonies think of this as a Muslim jewish issue. Muslims-Jewish relations have been historically much better than say Christian-Jewish relations. This is a Israeli-Palestinian issue and should be looked at as a humanitarian issue. This is the reality
 

pack leader

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this is a waste off time the Israeli peace camp is dead the Palestinians in Gaza ruled by genocidal Hamas
the pa in the west bank survives only du to Israeli military presence and American cash

we don't care anymore by 2030 we will annex the west bank ( large Jewish majority )
the UN , Arab league and Hamas can do what ever they like in Gaza
the solution was set in motion in 2005 after the disengagement plan failed
 

Adux

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I am with you on the inherent combativeness of Islam. But the Israeli-Palestinian issue is not really a religious issue. It is territorial (for the Israelis) and a matter of national survival (for the Palestinians). This issue however is being used by Islamic fundamentalists across the region as an excellent rallying cry to galvanize popular Arab support around their brand. The worst thing is that the increasingly brazen land grab of the Eastern European Jews (new migrants to Israel) is making it harder and harder for moderate Arabs (Muslim Arabs) to argue against radical elements within their religion in the region and to support a much constructive approach/accommodation towards Israel.
There is no such thing as moderate arab muslim, like it or not, the hardcore muslims have complete and total control of Islam and the region. They will peer pressure any such 'moderate' muslim even if they existed, they think 'secularism' is a dirty word. Israel is the starting point of slamming of the muslim arab some sense, modern sense. That they will have to secular or they will be made to. The eastern european jews, or jews who have had to escape persuction of muslims and newly converted muslims from jews, a long time back, today has the power and capacity to take back what was theirs. I completely support them.

Palestnian cause, just like the Kashmiri cause is a Islamic one, it has nothing to do with territory, in both case the muslims in questions, cannot fathom to live alongside Hindu's and Jews as equals. That is the simple truth. While they Hindu's and Jews are ready to give them equal footing; how can I as a true secularist ever side with the muslims in this cause?
 

The Messiah

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why is it that Indians are only the first ones to compare palestine with kashmir ? :facepalm:
 

Adux

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A negotiation is given and take. The "give" by the Arab countries is that they will recognise it and have trade relations with it. The "take" is that Israel will establish a Palestinan state. That should take care of point 1 and 2. Despite that some countries like Turkey, Egypt and Jordan among other already have diplomatic and trade ties and other have trade offices only like Qatar. Most GCC Arab countries including Pakistan have intelligence links with MOSSAD either directly or indirectly.
Not good enough,

(3) Most Arab and Muslim countries actually DON'T assist HAMAS and Hizbullah. Its only Iran and to an extent Syria that helps them. Infact, if you have been following wikileaks the Saudis nontheless offered a creation of Muslim-led UN force to go into Lebanon and remove Hezbullah. When Israel tried to destroy Hezbullah in 2006, the Saudis enthusiastically supported it. Similarly HAMAS is quite isolated in the Arab world and its only Iran that helps it in propping it up.
Complete humbug and total taaqiya, I have personally seen donations for HAMAS and its front organizations in Abu Dhabi and in Saudi Arabia

(4) The Gulf Arab countries are actually more keen to get Iran rid of its nuclear program than Israel belive it or not. The GCC Arab countries are pretty much working with Israel in lockstep to force the US Congress to act on the Iran nukes issue.
The reality is that countries like Russia, China and India actually have more influence in making Iran give up its nuke program
Wrong, Iran will not give up its nuke, they have seen the good 'effects' of having a nuke with Pakistan. They wont give it up.



And finally only the loonies think of this as a Muslim jewish issue. Muslims-Jewish relations have been historically much better than say Christian-Jewish relations. This is a Israeli-Palestinian issue and should be looked at as a humanitarian issue. This is the reality
Taaqiya again. Muslims have always treated everybody else as second class citizen's and lets not for get 'jaziya'
What the christians did to the jews along with the Romans, less said the better and even with Hindus, pagans and natives of various lands America and South America, but that is history, unlike muslim atrocities which happens today as speak against minority christian, parsi, jew and hindu's in middle east and south asia. Also against immigrant workers non-muslims especially in middle east from various countries, you on the other hand as muslim is enjoying australia's secularism.
 

asianobserve

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There is no such thing as moderate arab muslim, like it or not, the hardcore muslims have complete and total control of Islam and the region.
I think the reach for the combative side of Islam for political ends is of more recent vintage. The Arabs fought Israel mainly due to mindless nationalism.
 

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