Israel or Iran who is the strategic partner?

[StealthSniper]

To add my 2 cents, I think Iran and Israel are both bad in some respects. I honestly don't think a nuclear Iran means the world is going to end but when they say they want to "wipe Israel off the map" I think they are shutting the door on them having the right to acquire these weapons. But I also will say that Israel has also commited henious crimes and has been the "aggressor" nation in the Arab community and they also possess nuclear weapons, so what higher power has told them who can have what.


On Hezbollah and Hamas, they are in my mind terrorist organizations but I also think that they have the right to attack anyone that threatens their country which has been mostly Israel. If they had decent military weapons like Israel does then they probably wouldn't have to resort to other means which are more barbaric. That's why Russia is helping Lebanon and America is helping Israel.


All in all I think Iran or Israel are both good for India technology and economy wise but when it comes to how both these countries act in the global arena, they both stink.

 

[VayuSena1]

Interesting poll. I feel that both can be strategic partners for India in different ways. Here are the different aspects I feel both can be good or not:

Militarily:

Here Iran is of not much use to India, firstly due to different equipment and technology, different doctrines, different threat perceptions and different mindset. While setting military base in Iran is not of any use to us either since our threat scenario is just adjoining us in both West and East.

Whereas Israel which shares almost similar threats, has more commonality with our weapons (since we buy from them or from companies that are in joint venture with Israeli firms), is the most experienced in dealing with urban warfare and urban counter-terrorism, has immense technological capabilities and acts as a window to the West.

Economically:

This is where Iran can have a slight advantage. Simply put, Iran is rather blessed in non-renewable sources of energy and due to reasonable close ties with them, I think that we can reduce our excessive dependence on Arabs; just a hint not to get too cosy with Pakistan on Kashmir issue or help the latter financially in 'different' ways. There is an additional advantage if there is something being thought about transporting oil and gas from Iran into India without bringing Pakistan into the equation. It might be expensive, but it is better to spend an additional couple of billion dollars than to have an unstable, fanatic, terror-ridden rival hold the entire nation at ransom.

Due to good ties between Russia and Iran, even Russian gas and oil can be taken through Iran, into the Arabian sea and enter India via Gujarat. This is seriously pocket draining matter but its better to be safe than sorry; the other option to get direct oil from either of these countries would be to invade POK and take it by sheer force. Not to forget all the political pandemonium after the invasion domestic and international and then having to again spend billions in drilling the mountainous terrain for pipelines.

Israel despite its limited resources, does still not lag behind Iran in this sphere very far away. Their stable government, strong pool of scientists and engineers and their immense technological capabilities means that Indian firms entering into new areas (already entered by Israelis) can have a huge potential for growth and development through sharing technological knowledge. This would enable our firms to operate along Israeli lines of cut-throat efficiency and get the best results for Indian consumers.

Strategically:

This is a sphere where both can be equally valuable for us. Iran despite its radical Islamic theocracy, still manages to set itself apart from the radicals of Arabs and hates them to the core. The Iranians pride themselves in their different ways of life, culture and ways of life and have far more warmer ties with India than the Arabian leading nations (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait who have a cold attitude of looking at India through the religious prism: While UAE and Qatar are neutral and Bahrain and Oman are closer to India).

Another fact that favors India is that so far, Iran is the only Islamic nation (barring Afghanistan) that supports India on Kashmir cause while the remaining 50 or so states strongly support Pakistan's stand. Here we earn a valuable strategic partner in the region that has a certain regional clout.

Israel with their immense qualitative superiority and powerful influence on American politics can have a positive impact for India. While Clinton Administration was considering a change in their opinion about India, it was the Bush government that actually did so in action; an action often considered in strategic circles as the pressure of the strong Indian-Jewish right lobbies in the US government that enabled the world's sole superpower to bend in our favor. Israel is also the only Middle Eastern country that not only unconditionally supports India's bid for permanent seat in the Security Council, but also supports the view of involving India more into global security matters with more power.

Therefore, I think India should keep a fine balance between the two whereas make sure that it keeps the balance such that it doesn't have to choose either.

 

[VayuSena1]

Iran's hardline stance makes life difficult for countries who support it, as well. What extremist Hindutva is in India, is the islamic revolution in Iran. The problem is as a democracy on our own, self correcting mechanisms can adjust our policies. In Israel too, they can replace nethanyahu with a moderate in the next election. But that doesn't seem to be the case with Iran, its hardliners control power above the judiciary and franchise. So, in the long run Iran would definitiely be an adversary than ally.

Ben, there has to be a certain level of hardline elements in each nation. Because otherwise, the result would be a corrupt, unchecked pacifist state. You are extremely wrong in comparing the Hindu Right with the Ayatollahs of Iran. There is a large difference. The difference is that while the Hindu right wants to improvise on their blunders and win the seat democratically without a fanatic and bloody armed revolution, the Islamist zealots took power by force and showed how concerned they are about their people during the latest re-election of Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, where a mini-Tianmen square massacre happened.

Netanyahu and his likes rule Israel whether severe right or center-right, that is why Israel exists today despite being surrounded by enemies. Had liberals been governing without any hardliners in either countries, both India and Israel would end up being extinct from the map. Kashmiri massacres would happen daily while secularism would be nothing more than a mockery (the term has already lost its credibility in India after 1984 and 1989 and has nothing left of it now).

Extremes in anything is bad whether right or centrist. Which is why there is a reasonable good political balance in Israel and India. While UK ruled today by extreme liberals has become the second hub of terrorism (as you might know from the daily increasing arrests of potential terrorists), the fanatic regime of Iran has become an insult to the Iranians who are now fed up of the non-Iranian Arabic ways of life unlike their previous well balanced life-style.

You should compare the Iranian regime with the Communists of India. I am surprised how despite seeing the ruthless killings of security personnel by an armed "revolutionary" wing of Communists in the eastern states of India, how you wrongly jumped to the Hindu right immediately. The right has its flaws but the Center and the Left have greater black spots throughout the country's modern history.

Therefore, a balance of all these elements is essential for a stable country. It is just like the food you eat. Have too much butter and you would grow obese while having just fibrous foods will drastically reduce your weight. You need a balance in them to remain healthy.

 

[pyromaniac]

This is a very delicate matter..Israel is a very important strategic partner because the perks of having them as friends are many. First of all is the fact that they are one of the most militarily advanced countries in the world..their special forces are arguably the best in the world. The fact that they are close to America is also a plus.
Iran on the other hand is equally important...the fact that they are right next to Pakistan on the map makes them a very important player geographically. Their vast reserves of oil is also a very important factor. The fact that China has employed a "surround India" strategy makes it imperative that we have a few friends in the neighborhood who can directly affect the oil flow into China.

 

[AJSINGH]

Bad choice on the part of India to vote against Iran,USA and other countries are acting only on their own interest ,nothing else drives them.for india ,trade with Iran is important,very much,Israle is too important for weapons (but weapons can be bought from russia too and collaboration with other countries is also possible)

 

[VayuSena1]

Bad choice on the part of India to vote against Iran,USA and other countries are acting only on their own interest ,nothing else drives them.for india ,trade with Iran is important,very much,Israle is too important for weapons (but weapons can be bought from russia too and collaboration with other countries is also possible)

I think not so, Singh ji. Israel specializes in the kinds of weaponry that Russia is yet to master-- electronic warfare. Through sheer dedication, Israel has developed a range of sophisticated radars, ECM systems etc that Russia has just entered in. Due to limited funding on part of Israeli government, the country doesn't go for large scale projects unlike USA and European Union. Lavi was almost about to undo that, however due to the reasons I mentioned above, Israel couldn't realize the project.

I believe that there is still nothing lost even after us voting against Iran. We could offer Iranians some economic deal that can compensate this loss of face. I am sure that they will understand that we had to take the decision in the favor of national interest. As such India is well known for thinking about other countries, while it in itself might be undergoing hell.

I am not very well-educated in terms of economics and commercial business and therefore, those members who are so, can definitely think up of a logical solution for this in business spheres.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I vote for Iran. We just need to remember India can survive without fancy weapons but not without oil.

 

[anoop_mig25]

I vote for Iran. We just need to remember India can survive without fancy weapons but not without oil.

sorry i dont think so we can survive both without weapons and oil if we try to develop alternative to both.for eg there is some company(i forget the name) in iseral which is trying to and has develop car running on power provided by batteries and it also tying with local oil stations that will replace the battery with new charged one ,once your old batteries get discharged. it same like mobile recharge .

second i dont think iran supported india either during NTP/ctbt or kashmir issue(infact none of muslims nation supported us on kashmir issue) or recently durning debate in ntp regarding indias nuclear trade with ntp members.

third i think its all iran government faults specially their president who whenever gets opportunity shows his dislike for isreal. i mean what is this if u want to develop nuclear weapons quietly develop.when its fully develop test and declare it to world. one day world would automatically accept if u act as n responsible nation like india

i dont think isreal would had problem with iran hadn`t they supported hams or Hezbollah. in effect isreal would have helped iran against sunni terrorism.plus nuclear powered iran wont be ever to attack iseral becaue isreai is very small country so once u nuke isreal what would happen to plastien living there they to would be wiped out.iran must stop funding Hezbollah and terrorist working against isreal.that would help whole world.

i don`t think usa will able to strike iran in near future(of course untill they have president like G buah).

india should have good relations with iran more as it can act gateway towards CSA conutries plus other benefits as stated in previous post by others.



can any one explain how nuclear powerd iran is against india?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

sorry i dont think so we can survive both without weapons and oil if we try to develop alternative to both.for eg there is some company(i forget the name) in iseral which is trying to and has develop car running on power provided by batteries and it also tying with local oil stations that will replace the battery with new charged one ,once your old batteries get discharged. it same like mobile recharge .

second i dont think iran supported india either during NTP/ctbt or kashmir issue(infact none of muslims nation supported us on kashmir issue) or recently durning debate in ntp regarding indias nuclear trade with ntp members.

third i think its all iran government faults specially their president who whenever gets opportunity shows his dislike for isreal. i mean what is this if u want to develop nuclear weapons quietly develop.when its fully develop test and declare it to world. one day world would automatically accept if u act as n responsible nation like india

i dont think isreal would had problem with iran hadn`t they supported hams or Hezbollah. in effect isreal would have helped iran against sunni terrorism.plus nuclear powered iran wont be ever to attack iseral becaue isreai is very small country so once u nuke isreal what would happen to plastien living there they to would be wiped out.iran must stop funding Hezbollah and terrorist working against isreal.that would help whole world.

i don`t think usa will able to strike iran in near future(of course untill they have president like G buah).

india should have good relations with iran more as it can act gateway towards CSA conutries plus other benefits as stated in previous post by others.



can any one explain how nuclear powerd iran is against india?

The fact is India has alternatives to high tech weapons(Russia, France, Britan) but we don't have alternatives for oil. I am even a stauch supporter of India-Iran gas pipe line.

Have you heard aboutRevai!
Finally not to forget Israel is a puppet in hands of US and if US decides to sanctions us Israel will have to obliged.

 

[Parashuram1]

I vote for Iran. We just need to remember India can survive without fancy weapons but not without oil.

Don't talk like a ten-year-old, man. With your entire neighborhood at your throat and a neighbor 3 times your size, 4 times your economy and almost 3 times your armed forces modernizing at at least 45% faster than your own military, you really want to bank on some statement like that? Think again, mister.

Chinese don't really announce their invasions nor their capabilities before invading and you have already seen that in 1962. Nor does Pakistan whose new-found method of "thousand cuts on India" seems to be quite effective. What are you going to do to them with oil? Soak them to death?

You need weapons as much as you need oil. When you make statements like that, you must remember that your country is located just beside the epicenter of all of today's global menace be it Islamic terrorism, be it Communist Naxalite violence suspected via Chinese sponsorship, being one of the 3 countries that is armed with nuclear weapons and surrounded by two neighbors that are hostile as well as equipped with nuclear weapons.

After this, you really want to stand by your statement?

 

[Parashuram1]

As far as I have researched, Israel has given better deals than France of Britain could ever do with considerable technology transfer that you would never have got from Europe. I am impressed with Indian foreign affairs when they planned on building ties with Israel back in 1992. IPI gas link is only a suicide to your economy no matter what you think about it.

It would be better if your government can somehow plan an undersea pipeline system without involving Pakistan into the deal. You already have half your northern region under siege from Islamic militants. Do you want your entire country to be at the mercy of an unstable, hostile, nuclear neighbor? Ponder over that.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

@Parashuram1,
Before posting your comments please read my post, I never said we don't need weapons I just said we can survive without fancy weapons and before any relations with Israel we did. The matter of fact is that our relationship with Israel is give and take while the same can't be said for Iran. Iran has supported us many occassion. I say don't break relation with Israel but be need to bring Iran close to us and win their confidence.
In international arena your intrest come first.
Remember to just google the oil shortage and problem faced by India.
Judging by post 90 it seems you don't know about anything fighting war. I advice you do some research. As a matter of fact India is not capable of invading any of its neighbour, even do such research on it.

 

[anoop_mig25]

The fact is India has alternatives to high tech weapons(Russia, France, Britan) but we don't have alternatives for oil. I am even a stauch supporter of India-Iran gas pipe line.

Have you heard aboutRevai!
Finally not to forget Israel is a puppet in hands of US and if US decides to sanctions us Israel will have to obliged.

can u tell me how many times iran or another Muslim nation have supported us on Kashmir issue. and regarding oil issue iran imports more oil than it exports.regarding IPI pipeline how can iran make us sure that in event of any Pakistan-India standoff Pakistan wont turnoff supplies of oil to India.and last but not lest even Russia uk and French can deny high tech military under pressure from USA.

 

[x11]

X-factor...

Which other country the size of Kerala would take over 3 arab countries simultainously.[1967 war]
The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war. This has been practiced well in Israel.

We Indians are awaken only after there is an agression 1948, 1965, Kargil.
But isralites have it in them to ensure that the enemy does not grow.

Their strategic tactics

1. Plant people in world's wealthiest countries [Read US] Control US money and the politics.
If you cant beat the other monkey, get the lion on your side.

2. War is won by three things Intelligence, Intelligence and Intelligece...[In the words of an Israli military analyst]

How they studied the shift change Egypt AF base, while choosing the right time to bomb them.

How they planted high ranking Army officers in Syria, close enough to advice the Generals and then bombed them in well known locations.

These intelligence operations require no less than 10 years.

The guns that they developed are most suitable for close combat situations, to take on enemies in their bunkers. Eg Uzi was designed to counter ak-47 and syrians suffered most casuelties in bunkers.

How they motorable/suitable tracks for navigation in the desert during peace time and used them extensively to attack Egypt.

How they could conduct long range bombing operations in Libya, in revenge for their men killed in terrorist attack in Libya. [Read op Desert Storm, not sure about the name]- [What could we do after 26/11]

Dont tell me pakistan has nukes....we did not let them get hold to it.

Israel ensured that their enemies did not get hold of nuclear weapons...Indirectly through US. How they bombed nuclear installations in Iran which is not even in their border.

How they managed to rescue to rescue hi-jacked passengers from Uganda. [What could we do in kandahar?]




All of these, you can call Planning / Intelligence / Strategic thinking / Gods hand / what-so-ever

I briefly termed it as x-factor.

We have a lot to learn from them and that is why they are a strategic partner.

 

[sandeepdg]

For the time being, we should play our cards right and keep both Israel and Iran in the loop as strategic partners. Iran, after all is the only country that we have in the Middle East that supports us on the Kashmir issue and is crucial source of our energy requirements be it crude oil or LNG. Israel, on the other hand has to be a more important strategic partner not only because of the weapons that they are supplying but there's a lot that we can learn from them in the spheres of anti-terrorism and other essential security issues given their long experience in handling these types of matters as well as benefit from cooperation in the field of cutting edge science and technology with them.

 

[roma]

like many other countries which do have ties with israel, they keep it quiet ...... so they can get the best ( or so ) of both worlds ..ie muslim numbers and voting in the UN , plus Israel technology .... as India is THE BUYER of israel military produce , so we can name our terms and that is to keep the friendship on the quiet side , meanwhile exhibit our relations with the muslim sountries including, well hah , ok iran as well

 

[A.V.]

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