Israel eying Pakistan as ally in Muslim world

[bhramos]

it is correct that covert diplomatic ties between Pakistan and Israel have existed in the past with exchange of delegations too had taken place during the past 50 years. The Pakistani delegation comprise officials from fia and mi. Even some mullahs from Pakistan travelled to Israel via egypt and jordan in the past. Pakistan Times | Top Story: 174-member delegation from Pakistan reaches Israel Israel already has some contacts with military establishment in Pakistan. Still a formal and open diplomatic relations seems impossible due to public intolerance to israel.

ISLAMABAD: Carrying complete official and political blessings, a 174-member Pakistani delegation led by Maulana Ajmal Qadari reached Tel-Aviv on Saturday, reports noted journalist Aroosa Alam.

This is the first declared Pakistani delegation which has directly gone into Israeli Capital.

The delegation arrived in Amman Jordan via Dobai and is believed to be comprising religious scholars, businessmen and some officials.

DG Middle East at Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ms Humeira Hasan did not like to comment when approached by 'Pakistan Observer'. Information officer of the FO however said that Ministry is not aware of any such delegation visiting Israel.

He said Pakistan's position on sending delegation to Gaza and West Bank remains same which means that visit of Pakistani delegation has been delayed. Palestinian President Mr Mahmood Abbas during his visit to Pakistan had invited a Pakistani delegation to visit Gaza.

But Palestinian Authority later signalled its inability to receive such a delegation due to its displeasure over the meeting of Pakistani and Israeli Foreign Ministers in Turkey.

Reports from Israel say that a 174-member non official Pakistani delegation has arrived in Tel Aviv Saturday, the report said.

The visit comes after the first meeting between Pakistani and Israeli foreign ministers in Istanbul at the beginning of September. Representatives from Israel and Pakistan have been secretly holding talks for several months through diplomatic and informal channels.

Recap

Israeli Military Radio reported earlier this month that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom will receive the delegation. The relations between the second most populous Muslim country in the world and the Jewish state have been hostile for decades, but began to warm up after Israel offered aid to Pakistan following this month's devastating earthquake, the Radio report said.

Pakistan accepted Israeli offer, indicating that the sole Muslim nuclear power was cautiously moving towards better ties with Israel. Earlier this year President Pervez Musharraf and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon shook hands on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in New York.

Two weeks prior to the famous handshake, the two countries foreign ministers met in Istanbul for the first-ever high-level meeting aimed at normalising bilateral relations.

Pakistan had decided to engage with Israel, its foreign minister said then, because Israel pulled out settlers and troops from the Gaza Strip and it constituted a turning point for the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Israel currently has full diplomatic relations with only three Arab states namely Mauritania, Egypt and Jordan, and a handful of Muslim majority states including Turkey. The visit by Pakistani delegation has come a day after President General Pervez Musharraf's meeting with Jack Rozen, Chairman American Jewish Congress.

President told Rozen that Pakistan would consider formally recognising Israel only after the creation of an independent Palestinian state. Pakistan, which has no diplomatic ties with Israel, has long demanded that the Jewish state end its occupation of Palestinian territory and that the Palestinian state should emerge on the world map with Jerusalem as its capital. During meeting, Rozen told President Musharraf that Israel wanted to establish diplomatic, trade and economic ties with Islamabad.

But Musharraf "clearly told him that establishment of an independent Palestinian state, was a must for any forward movement". Rozen informed Musharraf that the Jewish community in America was collecting donations for the victims of the 8 October earthquake.

Pakistan had earlier declined an offer of direct aid from Israel after the quake, but said it could send aid through international relief organisations. Pakistan did not invite Israel to 18-19 November donors conference in Islamabad to seek more help for the reconstruction of devastated areas.

Meanwhile official sources in Palestinian Embassy expressed their ignorance about the visit of 174-member Pakistani delegation saying that the Embassy has not been informed or contacted by Pakistani authorities about this visit.

They however confirmed the visit and said this delegation will not visit Gaza or West Bank. "If this delegation was to also visit West Bank or Gaza, we would have been approached which is not the case", said officials.

The Palestinian Authority has not been happy about such contacts with Israel at a time when attacks are still being conducted on
Palestinians. One of the official newspapers of Palestine in its editorial opposed the visit of Pakistani delegation to West Bank and Gaza.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced last week that Pakistan is putting on hold the proposed visit by Pakistani delegation due to earthquake and situation in Palestine.

Maulana Ajmal Qadri, chief of a Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam faction, in a press conference at Multan early this month had said that unofficial trade between Pakistan and Israel via Jordan stands at $1 billion a year and Islamabad should officially allow trade with the Jewish state.

Qadri told reporters that he had paid several visits to Israel via Jordan over the last 15 years in his capacity as vice president of a London-based Arab NGO.

Link with Baitul Maqdas

We should not abandon our link with Baitul Maqdas (Jerusalem) and we should visit Israel to see it, he said. Pakistan has begun trade and opened bus links with India and a similar arrangement could be made with Israel.

He said he would soon visit Israel with a 150-member delegation. To a question, Qadri said he would like to see a crusade for the liberation of Palestine, but he thought it unlikely considering the apathetic state of Muslim countries. We should continue negotiations with Israel so that Palestinians can get relief, he said.

No recognition of Israel until independent Palestine: Musharraf

Meanwhile, President Pervez Musharraf has reiterated that Pakistan will not recognise Israel or establish trade links with it until an independent state of Palestine comes into existence.

Talking to Jack Rosen chairman American Jewish Congress (AJC) who called on him at his Camp Office in Rawalpindi, Musharraf said Pakistan is not opposed to Israel. "We want lasting peace and stability in the Middle East. Israel should evacuate other occupied territories and help establish an independent Palestine."

The President condemned terrorist activities in Palestine saying that an end to violence could lead to a solution to the problem. He urged the American Jewish Congress to exert pressure on Israel to move towards the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.

Jack Rosen told the President he had visited quake stricken areas and was saddened by the massive devastation caused by the quake.He informed the president that the AJC was raising funds to help quake victims.

The President thanked Rosen and said Pakistan needed billions of dollars for reconstruction and rehabilitation of quake victims.

Later in an interview with a private television channel, Rosen supported a friendly and cooperative relationship between Pakistan and Israel saying it would serve interests of both. He said the two countries never had any bilateral problem.

He said Pakistan should also accept Israel's offer of assistance in earth-quake hit areas. Israel has great experience in reconstruction and its health services are among the best in the world.●

this is old news, but related to Israel-Pakistan relations so i am posting it.

 

[bhramos]

More articles........

The Ten Lost Tribes: The Case for Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Pakistan

Yusuf means Joseph and Yusufzai means children of Joseph. The tribes of Joseph are the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh who are a part of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. They also call themselves Bani-Israel meaning children of Israel. Their tradition is that they were carried away from their ancient homeland. Formerly they were shepherds in search of pasture but they gave up their nomadic life and settled into village communities.

The Ten Lost Tribes: The Case for Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Pakistan

Jews in Kashmir!!!

KASHMIR, region in S. central Asia. The association of Kashmir with Jews was first alluded to by the 11th-century Muslim scholar Al-BÄ«rÅ«nÄ« in his "India-Book": "In former times the inhabitants of Kashmir used to allow one or two foreigners to enter their country, particularly Jews, but at present they do not allow any Hindus whom they do not know personally to enter, much less other people." In the time of the Moghul emperor Akbar (1556–1605), the question of the association of Jews with Kashmir and the Jewish descent of the Kashmiris was raised by the Jesuit Monserrate, who regarded the old inhabitants of this region as Jews by race and custom in view of their appearance, physique, style of dress, and manner of conducting trade. As early as the 17th century François Bernier, the scholar and traveler, who was in India from 1656 to 1668, was asked by Melchissedec Thevenot (1620–1692), a traveler and publisher, to discover if Jews had long been resident in Kashmir. Bernier reported that Jews had once lived here, but that they had converted to Islam. Nonetheless, as he put it:

Kashmir

 

[ejazr]

A good overview of Pakistan-Israel relations is in this academic overview over the years. Very good work overall

Beyond the Veil:
Israel-Pakistan Relations

 

[The Messiah]

israel and pakistan are two sides of the same coin...both will trample on there supposed "friend" if they would get a better deal elsewhere.

both are also created on the basis of religion and both are puppet of usa.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Trying to live with jews ? do you know what they have to go through ?

They are treated like 2nd grade humans. Repeatedly at check posts the soldiers check woman by hand and in some instances take them to a room and ask them to strip for searching. Hamas was voted in democratically and the first thing the usa does is to call them terrorists. I agree they are not saints but israel aren't saints either. Remember most jews came to live in israel from europe after ww2 and threw palestianiens out. That area was not even named israel back then surely that must mean something ? there were religious clashes between both sides because more and more jews were migrating. How do we in india get irritated when migrants from bangladesh cross over ?

Not staving ? they get only that amount of food that is needed to survive and even then there are restriction on what goes in.



They are also prohibited cement....so once israel blows your house you move into tent. They have to smuggle in most of the above food items from underground tunnels under egyptian border.

Just because you dont hear what palestianes have to endure doesn't mean it doesn't happen. They are basically in one big prison.

It is one of the greatest injustice coming into the 21th century. Often they are compared with kashmiri's but the situation is entirely different. No one has thrown kasmiri's out of there land (infact kashmiri pandits were forced out) they are not being bombed, there food isn't been "controlled", i as an Indian cant buy land in kashmir whereas kashmiri can buy land anywhere in India. Only a deluded idiot would compare both. The only common thing among them is stone pelting....but on 15th august even up farmers were pelting stones at police.

Is it better to check people every time or is it better to let people in and some one gets killed?

They dont have to live like that if they told hammas to shut up and go away and end terrorism,hate and war.

The jews lived there in Israel far before the Arabs arrived. Jews are also Palestinian matter of fact they where the first Palestinians.

They allowed the elections and Hammas came back to power and fired rockets! So what is the solution? If you allow them chemicals they make rockets in that case what will u do?

If u dont check people comeing in some one will carry a bomb inside the city and kill ur people, in that case would u check or simply allow people inside?

 

[The Messiah]

israel broke ceasefire by bombing first.

if your family woman were humiliated and told to strip how would you feel ? answer this honestly.

jews left for europe and lived there for centuries before hitler started his antics...dont forget that. how are european jews entitled to land which they left ????

 

[smartindian]

israel broke ceasefire by bombing first.

if your family woman were humiliated and told to strip how would you feel ? answer this honestly.

jews left for europe and lived there for centuries before hitler started his antics...dont forget that. how are european jews entitled to land which they left ????

in today world terrorism is so well spread that checking properly is not an offence. what you call as striping totally not true, male are checked by male , and women are checked by women. what is wrong in that. it is necessity of today the world if you like to live safe

 

[Godless-Kafir]

israel broke ceasefire by bombing first.

if your family woman were humiliated and told to strip how would you feel ? answer this honestly.

jews left for europe and lived there for centuries before hitler started his antics...dont forget that. how are european jews entitled to land which they left ????

Israel bombed an illegal tunnel to smuggle arms and Hammas retaliated at civilians by sending rockets into cities. How are both equal? The cease fire is often used by an weaker party like for example the LTTE only to arm itself and regroup, thats what Hammas was doing in the tunnel. So it was better to thwart it, at least one side has peace of mind from rockets now. Thats the least we can expect in war.

What if my mother or sister is strip searched? What if your mother is blown up by a women in Burka? You do realize women in Burka hide bombs? So what would u do then?

More over i would reach out and try to solve the hate on the other side as i have tried with Muslim Kashmire youth but when they bring in false arguments and hide the fact that they want separation only because of their religious identity then it painful. They have told many times that "how dare a Hindu rules us from Delhi" "We want Islamic law and not Indian constitution." So when someone is not willing to co-exist then how can u talk peace with them? Then it becomes clear that only force will keep them at bay.

How Israeli jews are entitled to the land of their ancestors? then how is Arabs entitled to the land they conquered and came to settle?More over the British partitioned jewish corner because there was already a majority of Jews in that area before the settlers arrived.

 

[White Clouds]

I am not surprised that Israel is trying to align itself with Pakistan, a country which is popularly known as terrorist hub of the world. If only we see how Israel behaved in past like offering nukes to then apartheid South Africa (Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons - Exclusive: Secret apartheid-era papers give first official evidence of Israeli nuclear weapons. At that time whole world was boycotting South Africa for it's apartheid policies and Israel was the only one who tried to secretly sell nukes to S. Africa. So don't be surprised if tomorrow you find out that Israel was selling Pakistan weapons.

 

[Vinod2070]

I am not surprised that Israel is trying to align itself with Pakistan, a country which is popularly known as terrorist hub of the world. If only we see how Israel behaved in past like offering nukes to then apartheid South Africa (Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons - Exclusive: Secret apartheid-era papers give first official evidence of Israeli nuclear weapons. At that time whole world was boycotting South Africa for it's apartheid policies and Israel was the only one who tried to secretly sell nukes to S. Africa. So don't be surprised if tomorrow you find out that Israel was selling Pakistan weapons.

Nothing like this is happening any time soon. This is an years old report that has been twisted by the useless idiot Gilani.

Some Pakistanis only imagine themselves to be very important. Truth is they are no more than a nuisance to the world, a mess to managed because nobody wants to deal with the bloody aftermath of what is destined to happen.

Pakistan was a blunder. As you have to tell 100 lies to hide one lie, in this case a hundred blunders need to be made to sustain this unsustainable blunder. I think this blunder is short lived now.

 

[White Clouds]

Some Pakistanis only imagine themselves to be very important. Truth is they are no more than a nuisance to the world, a mess to managed because nobody wants to deal with the bloody aftermath of what is destined to happen.

It is pretty wrong to label all Pakistani's as nuisance. Don't forget before partition we were one as brothers and friends. Now we are only divided by a border.

Yes there are miscreants within Pakistan but they are not the Pakistani people but I.S.I., extremist groups and the hardline government who have managed to get Pakistan into the chaos it is today. At the same time let's also have a balanced view and not use a borad brush against Pakistani people in it's entirety. Given a chance everyone can leave peacefully together forgetting the hate. I am sure Pakistani people on that side of the border would not be much different from us.

 

[The Messiah]

Israel bombed an illegal tunnel to smuggle arms and Hammas retaliated at civilians by sending rockets into cities. How are both equal? The cease fire is often used by an weaker party like for example the LTTE only to arm itself and regroup, thats what Hammas was doing in the tunnel. So it was better to thwart it, at least one side has peace of mind from rockets now. Thats the least we can expect in war.

What if my mother or sister is strip searched? What if your mother is blown up by a women in Burka? You do realize women in Burka hide bombs? So what would u do then?

More over i would reach out and try to solve the hate on the other side as i have tried with Muslim Kashmire youth but when they bring in false arguments and hide the fact that they want separation only because of their religious identity then it painful. They have told many times that "how dare a Hindu rules us from Delhi" "We want Islamic law and not Indian constitution." So when someone is not willing to co-exist then how can u talk peace with them? Then it becomes clear that only force will keep them at bay.

How Israeli jews are entitled to the land of their ancestors? then how is Arabs entitled to the land they conquered and came to settle?More over the British partitioned jewish corner because there was already a majority of Jews in that area before the settlers arrived.

You have not felt injustice so you dont know. so you agree israel broke ceasefire...they broke it by killing member of hamas near beach in gaza and not in tunnel. Moreover tunnels are not only used to get weapons but also for food, clothes etc. And if you didn't know the egypt govt had also closed its border with gaza.

Should i goto africa and claim land there as mine since all humans originated from there ? before israel was created christians discriminated against the jews more than muslims. You dont have any in depth knowledge of history of that area...you know only what is shown in popular media. and if you dont know muslims didn't throw out the jews.

You dont need to strip search to find bombs...are people strip searched at airports ???? no they aren't because they have equipment to detect bombs. They only strip search to degrade them and that causes more hate.

Anyone who compares situation with kashmir and palestine doesn't know anything because they are completely different.

 

[Vinod2070]

It is pretty wrong to label all Pakistani's as nuisance. Don't forget before partition we were one as brothers and friends. Now we are only divided by a border.

Yes there are miscreants within Pakistan but they are not the Pakistani people but I.S.I., extremist groups and the hardline government who have managed to get Pakistan into the chaos it is today. At the same time let's also have a balanced view and not use a borad brush against Pakistani people in it's entirety. Given a chance everyone can leave peacefully together forgetting the hate. I am sure Pakistani people on that side of the border would not be much different from us.

I didn't mention the people but the state of Pakistan in its entirety.

Pakistani establishment has defined the country in terms of hate and a negative ideology and identity (not India). This negative ideology is the cause of all troubles.

 

[Solid Beast]

I find it perfectly fine for our government to be labeled as a nuisance, miscreant, belligerent entity, etc. This was never about Pakistani people. This has always been about wrong ideology and committing ethnic cleansing and genocide to cover up the blunder of 1947 at the state level. We have aided China in ethnic cleansing, undertaken our own genocide in East Pakistan, Afghanistan, and against our own people and minorities.

 

[anoop_mig25]

lets bomb the region with some chenical which has mild but long term effect (i know everone would think i am :emot100:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:emot203::emot203::emot203 but one who is passionate about the region would continue to stay there

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Let Pakistan recognize Israel and then wait for the huge surge in fallouts as a result in Pakistan. A country which is already on a tenterhook would find it hard to survive this one and there is every possibility of this country exploding on this one big time. Don't forget Pakistanis are more Palestinians than the Palestinians themselves, not me suggesting that but a certain musharraf mentioned it who first attempted getting cozy with the Israelis, a response which came after a handful of pak fanatics took to streets as a result, now imagine what all those fanatics and not so fanatics would end up doing in Pakistan if they were to really recognize Israel, a population which would not be less than atleast 60-70% of pakistan.

Either you will see a huge surge in civil war and this time round it will be fought right in the heart of Pakistan, Punjab and will engulf the entire nation, which might lead to a radicalized Islamic revolution of sorts taking shape, which I am of the opinion the army wont be too forth coming to support or the very survival of Pakistan will be at stake.

If at all this little bonhomie between pak and Israel were to take off, it will be mostly covert and certainly not overt, there is a lot at stake for both pak and Israel to lose and they will be very-very cautious on this one. Now I wont deny such a thing cant happen because much like life anything can happen in real politic!

Pakistan and Israel are known to have worked in the past during the cold war era, though covertly and on very rare occasions, and then there is the USA and china factor which cant be ignored.

That said, as usual, and may I add a trend I that has caught up on the forum off late, we are trying to make a mountain of a molehill. If at all anything, and as is being pointed out by Ejazr, the attempt is nothing more but to deflect the attention from international pressure on them wrt Palestine and possibly a pay back by the Israelis on the criticism handed out by us on the issue that recently happened there, atleast that is what appears to me on the surface of it.

Beyond all this, Indo-Israel allies, did I read it right, some people were suggesting that. Now when did that start to happen? Two states which have common interests on certain issues are moving together to attain them, and that's it, if we are trying to read too much into this relationship then I doubt we really have understood the essence of this relationship and incase we are reading too much on this then I suspect people will end up being disappointed in mid to long run.

Lets hold on our horses girls and boys!