Israel-China relations focus on high technology cooperation

[AOE]

1 whats ur real evidence??whats in it for PRC to arm Iran with nukes? if PRC really wants do that Iran should have had some nuke tests successful now.

Well no evidence has surfaced, to my knowledge, of China arming or helping Iran to gain nuclear weapons, but there is some to indicate Pakistan and North Korea is helping them.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Well no evidence has surfaced, to my knowledge, of China arming or helping Iran to gain nuclear weapons, but there is some to indicate Pakistan and North Korea is helping them.

Iran's nuclear program helped by China, Russia - Washington Times
Iran's nuclear program helped by China, Russia

 

[pack leader]

politics are a dirty game nobody is a saint securing our national interest is top priority
we wont give china any major military assets or tech
but they share our counter terrorist concerns and civilian tech
ally no.1 is still America
ally no.2 is still India
stop this hate mongering selling aggro/civ aviation tech is no different from buying oil
from fascist Iran

 

[AOE]

Iran's nuclear program helped by China, Russia - Washington Times
Iran's nuclear program helped by China, Russia

Thank you for the article.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

politics are a dirty game nobody is a saint securing our national interest is top priority
we wont give china any major military assets or tech
but they share our counter terrorist concerns and civilian tech
ally no.1 is still America
ally no.2 is still India
stop this hate mongering selling aggro/civ aviation tech is no different from buying oil
from fascist Iran

If Indian Radar codes and Radar Technology ends up with China then we will lose all edge over China military. We did not depend on number of fighter aircraft because we knew quality and technology will take care of them, because our Radars can Jam theirs and see further so we can have an edge. Now if they get the sketch of what India has then they will wipe us clean, also they will sell it to Pakistan, which is worse and Pakistan will sell it to Arab or Iran and you pay the price too! How bloody dumb.

What Israel is doing is beyond uncalled for.

 

[tony4562]

If Indian Radar codes and Radar Technology ends up with China then we will lose all edge over China military. We did not depend on number of fighter aircraft because we knew quality and technology will take care of them, because our Radars can Jam theirs and see further so we can have an edge. Now if they get the sketch of what India has then they will wipe us clean, also they will sell it to Pakistan, which is worse and Pakistan will sell it to Arab or Iran and you pay the price too! How bloody dumb.

What Israel is doing is beyond uncalled for.

There is no evidence that India posseses any cutting-edge radar technology. To this date, India has not fielded a single indigenous radar, regardless of types. More established countries like France, Britain or China have produced and actually fielded literally hundreds of types of radars, not to mention the US or the Soviet Union. Just to take a look at the electronics on the latest warships fielded by the Indian navy and PLAN gives you an idea of where these countries stand in terms of indigenous electronics production capabilities.

To make indigenous radars you need to have a robust electronics industry of which India has little to show for.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Is this why China still has to buy radars and engines from abroad?? Even after being the manufacturing giant they claim to be. India also had an aircraft carrier before China and will have a fifth gen plane before China. Indian electronics are better than chinese . Indian is mostly western electronics not reversed engineered Chinese junk.

 

[pack leader]

you are unbelievable

If Indian Radar codes and Radar Technology ends up with China then we will lose all edge over China military. We did not depend on number of fighter aircraft because we knew quality and technology will take care of them, because our Radars can Jam theirs and see further so we can have an edge. Now if they get the sketch of what India has then they will wipe us clean, also they will sell it to Pakistan, which is worse and Pakistan will sell it to Arab or Iran and you pay the price too! How bloody dumb.



What Israel is doing is beyond uncalled for.

god help me did you even read the original article or my response
we wont i repeat wont sell mil tech to china
unlike your best friends the Russians we don't play around
china is not our enemy selling china civ tech is completely legit

 

[The Messiah]

israel is its own friend like any other country.

ultimately we need to depend on ourselves and not on others.

 

[tony4562]

Is this why China still has to buy radars and engines from abroad?? Even after being the manufacturing giant they claim to be. India also had an aircraft carrier before China and will have a fifth gen plane before China. Indian electronics are better than chinese . Indian is mostly western electronics not reversed engineered Chinese junk.

India has had a few WWII vintage carriers, good for parading at the ports, not much else. Regarding the 5th gen fighter India will play the same role like Pakistan did in the FC-1 project, basically just bringing in the paint, and there is little to indicate that it won't go the same way as the Gorshkov deal. China may be massively behind the US, and is still behind the western european countries, but China does bring the goods to the table. In Inda's case there is none, zero, nada, zip, zil. When the Dhruv helicopter, often spoken as the sympol of success of India's indigenous effort, still has 95% of foreign components, there is really not much indians can take comfort in, no matter how you spin it. Afghanistan probably could built a helicopter too with that much foreign content!

Any attempt to compare China and India is stupid, because you can not compare something that is concrete , no matter how small or large it is, with something that currently does not exist.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India beat China in the moon mission. Chinese moon mission failed with all your great electronics Indian moon mission succeeded before China much to China's embarrassment second to India again.

Mission to Moon 'Not a Race with Others' -- china.org.cn
Mission to Moon 'Not a Race with Others'

India Gains on China in Asia's Space Race - TIME
India Gains on China in Asia's Space Race

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7917957.stm
Chinese probe crashes into moon

 

[Godless-Kafir]

There is no evidence that India posseses any cutting-edge radar technology. To this date, India has not fielded a single indigenous radar, regardless of types. More established countries like France, Britain or China have produced and actually fielded literally hundreds of types of radars, not to mention the US or the Soviet Union. Just to take a look at the electronics on the latest warships fielded by the Indian navy and PLAN gives you an idea of where these countries stand in terms of indigenous electronics production capabilities.

To make indigenous radars you need to have a robust electronics industry of which India has little to show for.

India is in collaboration with Israel for radars and other technical equipment. Also our MMRCA, IAI Phalcon AWACS our own DRDO AWACS are more advanced than Chinas. Also we buy Radars from France,Britian and Russia which are more advanced than Chinas. So will gain more advanced technologies in the years to come. Surely this mix of Western,Russian and Indian technology cant be done only by China? Learn something ChiChom.

Also this is DRDO made AEW&CS just to show that we make our radar.

This is Indian AWACS with Russian plain and Israeli Phalcon Radar which is the most advanced Radar in the world. Chinas copy cat Radar is better than Phalcon?

Indian made Radars.


The DRDO has steadily increased its radar development footprint across a range of systems. The result has been substantial progress in India's ability to design and manufacture high power radar systems of its own design and with locally manufactured components and systems. The path began with the development of short range 2D systems (Indra-1) and has now extended to high power 3D systems intended for strategic purposes (LRTR). Several other projects span the gamut of radar applications, from airborne surveillance (AEW & C) to firecontrol radars (land based, and airborne). The DRDO's productionised as well as production ready radar systems include:

INDRA series of 2D radars meant for Army and Air Force use. This was the first high power radar developed by the DRDO, with the Indra -I radar for the Indian Army, followed by Indra Pulse Compression (PC) version for the Indian Air Force, also known as the Indra-II, which is a low level radar to search and track low flying cruise missiles, helicopters and aircraft. These are basically 2D radars which provide range, and azimuth information, and are meant to be used as gapfillers. The Indra 2 PC has pulse compression providing improved range resolution. The series are used both by the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army[34]

Rajendra fire control radar for the Akash SAM: The Rajendra is stated to be ready. However, it can be expected that further iterative improvements will nonetheless be made. The Rajendra is a high power, Passive electronically scanned array radar (PESA), with the ability able to guide up to 12 Akash SAMs against aircraft flying at low to medium altitudes. The Rajendra has a detection range of 8o km with 18 km height coverage against small fighter sized targets and is able to track 64 targets, engaging 4 simultaneously, with up to 3 missiles per target. The Rajendra features a fully digital high speed signal processing system with adaptive moving target indicator, coherent signal processing, FFTs, and variable pulse repetition frequency.The entire PESA antenna array can swivel 360 degrees on a rotating platform. This allows the radar antenna to be rapidly repositioned, and even conduct all round surveillance.[35]

Central Acquisition Radar, a state of the art planar array, S Band radar operating on the stacked beam principle. With a range of 180 km against fighter sized targets, it can track while scan 200 of them. Its systems are integrated on high mobility, locally built TATRA trucks for the Army and Air Force; however it is meant to be used by all three services. The Planar array was codeveloped by DRDO with a European firm with both the DRDO and the firm sharing design rights, whereas the rest of the hardware and signal processing were done locally. Initially developed for the long running Akash SAM system, seven were ordered by the Indian Air Force for their radar modernization program, and two of another variant were ordered by the Indian Navy for their P-28 Corvettes. The CAR has been a significant success for radar development in India, with its state of the art signal processing hardware.[36][37] The ROHINI is the IAF specific variant while the REVATHI is the Indian Navy specific variant. The ROHINI has a more advanced Indian developed antenna in terms of power handling and beamforming technology while the IREVATH adds two axis stabilisation for operation in naval conditions, as well as extra naval modes.

BFSR-SR

BFSR-SR, a 2D short range Battle Field Surveillance Radar, meant to be manportable.Designed and developed by LRDE, the project was a systematic example of concurrent engineering, with the production agency involved through the design and development stage. This enabled the design to be brought into production quickly.[38][39] The radar continues to progress further in terms of integration, with newer variants being integrated with thermal imagers for visually tracking targets detected by the radar. Up to 10 BFSR-SR can be networked together for network centric operation.It is in use with the Indian Army and the BSF as well as export customers.

Super Vision-2000, an airborne 3D naval surveillance radar, meant for helicopters and light transport aircraft. The SV-2000 is a lightweight, yet high performance, slotted array radar operating in the X Band. It can detect sea-surface targets such as a periscope or a vessel, against heavy clutter, and can also be used for navigation, weather mapping and beacon detection. The radar can detect a large vessel at over 100 nautical miles (370 km).It is currently under modification to be fitted to the Advanced Light Helicopter, and the Navy's Do-228's. Variants can be fitted to the Navy's Ka-25's as well.[40] The radar has been inducted by the Indian Navy and a more advanced variant of the Super Vision, known as the XV-2004 is now in production. The XV-2004 is also operational, and features an ISAR, SAR Capability.

Long Range Tracking Radar: The LRTR a 3D AESA was developed with assistance from Elta of Israel, and is similar to Elta's proven GreenPine long range Active Array radar. The DRDO developed the signal processing and software for tracking high speed ballistic missile targets as well as introduced more ruggedization. The radar uses mostly Indian designed and manufactured components such as its critical high power, L Band Transmit-Receive modules plus the other enabling technologies necessary for active phased array radars.The LRTR can track 200 targets and had a range of above 500 km and can detect Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles, and that India now had the capability to manufacture these radars on its own.The LRTR would be amongst the key elements of the Indian ABM system; DRDO would provide the technology to private and public manufacturers to make these high power systems.[41]

3D Multi Function Control Radar: A substantial project by itself, the MFCR was developed as part of the Indian anti-ballistic missile program in cooperation with THALES of France. The MFCR is an active phased array radar and complements the Long Range Tracking Radar, for intercepting ballistic missiles. The MFCR will also serve as the fire control radar for the AAD second tier missile system of the ABM program. The AAD has a supplementary role against aircraft as well, and is to engage missiles and aircraft up to an altitude of 30 km. The MFCR fills out the final part of the DRDO's radar development spectrum, and allows India to manufacture long range 3D radars that can act as the nodes of an Air Defence Ground Environment system. As with the LRTR, the MFCR was used successfully in BMD interception effort.

2D Low Level Lightweight Radar (LLLR) for the Army, which require many of these units for gapfilling in mountainous terrain. The Indian Air Force will also acquire the same for key airbases. The LLLR is a 2D radar with a range of 40 km against a 2Sq Mtr target, intended as a gapfiller to plug detection gaps versus low level aircraft in an integrated Air Defence Ground network. The LLLR makes use of Indra-2 technology, namely a similar antenna array, but has roughly half the range and is much smaller and a far more portable unit. The LLLR can track while scan 100 targets and provide details about their speed, azimuth and range to the operator. The LLLR makes use of the BFSR-SR experience and many of the subsystem providers are the same. Multiple LLLRs can be networked together. The LLLR is meant to detect low level intruders, and will alert Army Air Defence fire control units to cue their weapon systems.[42] A 3D LLLR was also revealed in 2008, with the designation "Aslesha".

3D Short Range Radar for the Indian Air Force - ASLESHA: The ASLESHA radars have a range of approximately 50 km against small fighter-sized targets and will be able to determine their range, speed, azimuth and height. This radar will enable the Indian Air Force Air Defence units to accurately track low level intruders. The radar is a semi-active phased array with a 1 meter square aperture. The DRDO was in discussions with the Indian Navy to mount these systems on small ships.

Multi-mode radar,a 3D radar is a HAL project of which DRDO's LRDE is a subsystem provider, this project to develop an advanced, lightweight Multimode fire control radar for the LCA Tejas fighter, has faced stiff challenges and been struck by delay. It has now been completed with Elta's (Israel) assistance. The multimode radar is a greater than 100 km range (detection of a small fighter target), 10 target track, two target engage, lightweight system. It has been revealed that an all new combined signal and data processor had been developed, replacing the original separate units. The new unit is much more powerful and makes use of contemporary ADSP processors. The other radar critical hardware has also been developed and validated, however work remains on the software front. The software for the air to air mode has been developed considerably (including search and track while scan in both look up and look down modes) but air to ground modes are being still worked upon. The radar development was shown to be considerably more mature than previously thought. At Aero India 2009, it was revealed that the 3D MMR project has been superseded by the new 3D AESA FCR project led by LRDE. The MMR has been completed with Elta Israel's assistance and now involved Elta EL/M-2032 technology for Air to Ground mapping and targeting. This "hybrid" MMR has been trialled, validated and will be supplied for the initial LCA Tejas fighters of which 2 Squadrons have been ordered.

DRDO has indigenised components and improved subsystems of various other license produced radars manufactured at BEL, India, with the help of BEL scientists and other researchers. These improvements include new radar data processors for license produced Signaal radars as well as local radar assemblies replacing the earlier imported ones. Several of these items have better performance than the original systems that they replaced.

Apart from the above, the DRDO has also several other radar systems currently under development or in trials, these include:

BEL Weapon Locating Radar:
A model of the BEL Weapon Locating Radar
A 3D radar successfully developed from the Rajendra fire control radar for the Akash system, this radar uses a passive electronically scanned array to detect multiple targets for fire correction and weapon location. The system has been developed and demonstrated to the Army and orders have been placed[43] In terms of performance, the WLR is stated to be superior to the AN/TPQ-37, several of which were imported by India as an interim system while the WLR got ready.

Active Phased Array radar: a 3D radar for fighters, a MMR follow on, the APAR project aims to field a fully fledged operational AESA fire control radar for the expected Mark-2 version of the Light Combat Aircraft. This will be the second airborne AESA program after the AEW&C project and intends to transfer the success DRDO has achieved in the Ground based radar segment to airborne systems.The overall airborne APAR program aims to prevent this technology gap from developing, with a broad based program to bring DRDO up to par with international developers in airborne systems:both fire control and surveillance.

Synthetic Aperture & Inverse Synthetic Aperture radars: the DRDO's LRDE is currently working on both SAR and ISAR radars for target detection and classification. These lightweight payloads are intended for both conventional fixed wing, as well as Unmanned Aerial Vehicle applications.

Airborne Warning and Control: a new radar based on Active Electronically Scanned Array technology.The aim of the project is to develop inhouse capability for high power AEW&C systems, with the system covering the development of a S Band AESA array. The aircraft will also have datalinks to link fighters plus communicate with the IAF's C3I infrastructure, as well as a local SATCOM (satellite communication system), along with other onboard ESM and COMINT systems.[44]

Medium Range Battlefield Surveillance Radar: in 2009, the LRDE (DRDO) noted that it was working on a Long range Battlefield surveillance radar. It is possible that the BFSR-LR project has replaced the earlier this project and the Indian Army will utilize the BEL built ELTA designed BFSR-MR's for Medium Range surveillance while using the LRDE designed systems for Long Range surveillance. The 2D radar will track ground targets and provide key intelligence to the Indian Army's artillery units, with the resultant information available on various tactical networks.

3D Medium Power Radar: a spinoff of the experience gained via the 3D MFCR project, the 3D Medium Power Radar project is intended to field a radar with a range of approximately 300 km against small fighter sized targets. Intended for the Indian Air Force, the radar is an active phased array, and will be transportable. It will play a significant role being used as part of the nodes of the Indian Air Force's enhanced Air Defence Ground Environment System.

3D Tactical Control Radar: a new program, the TCR is an approximately 150 km ranged system for use by the Indian Army and Air Force. A highly mobile unit, it will also employ open architecture to provide easy upgrades, and a variety of modes and capabilities depending on the software fit. The aim of the 3D Medium Power Radar and TCR is to offer systems which can be deployed in a variety of roles, from fire control to surveillance, and not be tied to one role alone.

 

[tony4562]

All this stuff is imported, at least the hardware. And most of that is either under testing, or about to be inducted (like countless other projects) or is still on the drawing board. India does not have an electronics industry, that's the problem, thus an indigenous radar in the true sense is out of question. May I remind you that India still imports bullets, rifles, bullet-proof vests, and even body bags.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

All this stuff is imported, at least the hardware. And most of that is either under testing, or about to be inducted (like countless other projects) or is still on the drawing board. India does not have an electronics industry, that's the problem, thus an indigenous radar in the true sense is out of question. May I remind you that India still imports bullets, rifles, bullet-proof vests, and even body bags.

You Said India did not make Single Indegenious Radar? LMAO!! Did you read the above?

Now that your argument was busted now you need to counter it with silly unresearched arguments. Some of the stuff like Phalcon is imported that why i said it would be better than Chinese, Also read the above stuff and see how many are home built. Indian electronics industry is bad? You mean building cheap Chinese cordless phones and cell phones make ur industry better? No one of that can be useful unbuilding advanced Radars like AESA.

AESA Radar built in India.

 

[tony4562]

A lot of people here sound like as if India is Israel's only hope ( pretty sure the Isreali members are laughing their butts off this). The truth is if that was the case Israel would be in deep trouble. And despite the cooling down in military exchanges between China and Israel due to US arms twisting, China remains a far important country to Israel than India is. China has a far larger economy (4 times larger) and a huge manufacturing sector (10 tiems larger), a huge foreign currency reserve (8 times larger), a standing member of the security council, holds a lot of influence in middle eastern countries. Still, China's influence does not even remotely compare with that of the US. Israel is for all practical purposes just another US state.

Among the most influencial countries to Israel, India would be lucky to even figure among the top 10.

 

[tony4562]

When a basic helicopter like Dhruv has 95% imported components, there is no way I would believe that India is in position to make an indigenous radar. Try to convince me when that figure goes to to below 50%.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I have given you 3 things India has beaten China in and they involved electronics. I will give you a 4th- India has SAR lenses before China. Now I will ask you how can India do these things when China is such a manufacturing giant?? When India is importing 95% as you claim how did India beat China??

 

[Godless-Kafir]

A lot of people here sound like as if India is Israel's only hope ( pretty sure the Isreali members are laughing their butts off this). The truth is if that was the case Israel would be in deep trouble. And despite the cooling down in military exchanges between China and Israel due to US arms twisting, China remains a far important country to Israel than India is. China has a far larger economy (4 times larger) and a huge manufacturing sector (10 tiems larger), a huge foreign currency reserve (8 times larger), a standing member of the security council, holds a lot of influence in middle eastern countries. Still, China's influence does not even remotely compare with that of the US. Israel is for all practical purposes just another US state.

Among the most influencial countries to Israel, India would be lucky to even figure among the top 10.

Israel is Indias only hope and we import stuff? Is that why you copied Russian Su-30 and called it J-11? Also your key allies Sudan,Pakistan and NoKO and you talk of haveing more leverage in the world? Israel is far more concerned with India because we have JVs with them.

Also did you see the video of the Radar made in India? You should atleast try and talk in context to what you read not repeat that India does not make, we took help but we made Radars before and after Israel support.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

When a basic helicopter like Dhruv has 95% imported components, there is no way I would believe that India is in position to make an indigenous radar. Try to convince me when that figure goes to to below 50%.

No one needs to convince trolls, because we cant.

What do you see at 1:06?

 

[tony4562]

Israel is Indias only hope and we import stuff? Is that why you copied Russian Su-30 and called it J-11? Also your key allies Sudan,Pakistan and NoKO and you talk of haveing more leverage in the world? Israel is far more concerned with India because we have JVs with them.

Also did you see the video of the Radar made in India? You should atleast try and talk in context to what you read not repeat that India does not make, we took help but we made Radars before and after Israel support.

Have you ever been to a modern electronics factory or research institute? The environment in which thse guys work in, look like someone's backyard, and those guys sure don't look like working on a cutting-edge project either (amateurish you ask me). If that's the yard stick of how the DRDO works, then I can understand why most of India's indigenous projects are going no where.