Israel bars AESA radar export to India

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by neo29, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Israeli defence ministry has blocked the potential export sale of Israel Aerospace Industries' EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array radar to a number of countries, with its action having an immediate impact on the Indian market.

    The restrictions were imposed following pressure from the US administration, which has outlined its concerns to Israel several times in the past two years.

    Washington's position is driven by an assumption that exporting IAI's advanced radar would undermine the sale of US-made systems on the international stage, sources say.

    At one stage, Saab had considered offering the EL/M-2052 as part of its Gripen NG proposal for the Indian air force's medium multi-role combat aircraft requirement, but instead opted for Selex Galileo's ES05 Raven AESA.

    IAI had also viewed the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency's Tejas light combat aircraft as a potential candidate for the AESA radar. The modular design weighs 130-180kg (286-397lb) and consumes 4-10kVA, depending on the design configuration, and has built-in growth potential, the company says.

    Developed by IAI's Elta Systems subsidiary, the EL/M-2052 uses an array of solid-state transmit/receive modules designed to dynamically shape the radiation pattern using an ultra-low side-lobe antenna. It can perform simultaneous multi-mode operations, detecting airborne threats and supporting navigation and mapping, by producing high-resolution synthetic aperture radar imagery.

    The sensor can detect and track up to 64 airborne targets from long range, and enable a pilot to engage several simultaneously using air-to-air missiles, IAI says. The sensor can also provide long-range target detection, classification and tracking in the anti-ship role.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/11/351666/israel-bars-aesa-radar-export-to-india.html
     
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  3. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    From first impressions its a pressure tactic for MRCA from the US , one more point to bargain for the US ....lets hear details , but firm indications this will be altered to present india's case ,why ? because :- money speaks , talks , walks and done even more and jews are too intelligent to miss this
     
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  4. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    i think avi is right, cross posting from the mmrca thread and this news is the front page and top most headlines on the tribune today and if it is coming from tribune there should be a lot of weight-age to it:


    http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=12796&p=220727&viewfull=1#post220727

     
  5. Nagraj

    Nagraj Regular Member

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    wow !!!!
    good going us of A.
    and these guys want us as allies!!!!!
    let usa prove it's credibility first
    let them stop these arm twisting tactics.
    untill then we are alone
    and we must stand on our own feets.
    this is a lesson the all us indians who consider that india has arrived.
    and india is already a super power.
    we have miles to go before we become one.
    and yeah we can traverse these miles.
     
  6. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Now the unkil start the play.... :) :)
    And somebody wanted more stealth fighters...
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    So Israel can't develop and sell anything?it's has a lot of competing defense products.
     
  8. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Another reason we shouldn't go for F-18s..
     
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  9. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    This is really a dirty politics being played by Americans. Its the first time Israel has betrayed us but I suspect its a sign of things to come . I am not sure if we have any option to penalizing them for backtracking from promises . It means LCA MK2 is also badly affected .
     
  10. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    I would say this is the most stupid reason. Arms twisting is done by everyone from a 4-year old kid to multi-national corporate giants to super powers. There is nothing new to this. If we keep on behaving as you said then we will be the only loosers. Remember the ongoing vikramadatya saga.
     
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  11. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Banning sale of Israeli equipment for Gripen was known to everyone and I dont think anyone reacted badly. something like that can be explained as use of muscle power to get a deal . but what Americans are doing now will affect not only MRCA but our LCA project as well. This is something like a goon holding gun over your son and asking you to sign a deal .
     
  12. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    US can force Israel but Israel can always repeat Green Pine. Israel as a economy is largely dependent on defence contracts from India and nobody can stop them when it come to their national interests. One way the other Isreal will take part in JV with LRDE for developing AESA radar for LCA if it is selected.
     
  13. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    From the aeroIndia show pictures I could see quite a compact Radar El/M2052 with a rectangular Antenna Array unit rather than the usual circular one used in other AESA models!!! compared to APG79 and RBE2 series and ZHUK this appears to be quite compact and weighs less. India should link its future defence purchases from Israel with this one!!!!Whatever India needed and felt good was always denied to india by spanner throwing USA !!!Even we are not getting free samples from US companies...with all that Obama visit hullabaloo!!!
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    USA can never ally with large countries. This is strictly buisness. USA is using it's leverage and sending a clear message to India that we have a major role in your MRCA and your LCA programs, this also sends a message in other India-Israeli programs that it has to go thru US approval. There can be anger against USA but Indian govt needs to be blamed for a lot of this. The Indian govt never pursued indigenous programs as aggressively as they should have leaving national security at the hands of foreign companies. The whole MRCA has been a fiasco from the start where all nations involved have been countering the Indian MRCA -Russia,France,Sweden,USA ETC...from the start .When it comes to acquisitions and diplomacy I would say Pakistanis are much better than the Indian politicians they seem to get what they want from USA and China(f-16's,Predator,AWACS etc...) and free at that while our govt while shelling out big bucks cannot do anything right or finish a project or induct anything in a timely manner.
     
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  15. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    I say, call the Israeli Ambassador and tell him that if the sale of the AESA radar is blocked, India would recognize Palestine as an independent country instantly.

    Pun intended! :)
     
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  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Let's not get too silly O we still have orders for Phalcon AWACS and BARAK projects.
     
  17. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    /\/\/\ I said "pun intended" LF :smokin:
     
  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Well Israel can do little to stop US from blocking stuff that has American money in it. It is justified in a way you see. US pours a lot of money into Israeli projects and naturally they don't do it for free or due to lot of love for Jews. I will agree with LF that we can neither blame US nor Israel here but GOI alone. Putting pressure on Israel won't do much as you know how much they want to get the contract. Israeli economy relies on arms exports and defence stuff. They will be the most happiest to sell us stuff as much as we want if it not had been for Pentagon nosing around.

    This shows that US still cannot let go off its arm twisting hold on other countries and that it hasn't reformed since the days of Pakistan bonhomie. Sanctions are very much a reality and the last thing we would want is 200 jets on the ground because we don't agree with Americans, in case of a war. This makes it all the more reason not to buy US stuff too much and rather become more aggressive indigenously. The TOI article quoted Anthony say that Tejas has reached "semi final" stage meaning that till 2013 induction doesn't formally start of the first 40 jets and only by 2016 we get MK2s. And we are talking about a 25+ year old jet with some 4.5 gen modifications. Is ADA slow or what?

    Sanctions is no bull excuse for ADA since even Chinese were sanctioned after 89 massacre in Tiananmen Square. But still they used hook or crook to become indigenous and fast. J-10 is up already whether we call it Israeli design stealing or whatever. In fact its advanced version is also out. I am now casting doubts on whether AMCA will even come into reality by 2025 at this rate. Sarkari dodos are too slow because of paper work, red tapism and decision-making levels.

    As for MRCA, we must make it a point that US should NOT get the contract. We don't want to repeat the cycle Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and now Turkey are going to go or have undergone. Those who say US won't do this with us are living in their American Dream:

    1- US owns the tech
    2- US doesn't transfer the tech
    3- US makes clauses that can cause blockage to techs half way if not in their interest (Remember Shivalik engines??)
    4- US mandates yearly check by its own officials of all those who buy its equipment.

    So do we really need all this nonsense after coughing up $ 12 billion? I think we are better of with European options. If US presses Israel not to supply, we will ask Europeans to show their AESA models, simple. Next time, Israel will twist US administration enough to tell them not to meddle. One contract loss means more than just lost monetary opportunity in defence industry, you know. Especially when it comes to Israel's case. US cannot press Europe and especially France.

    Either that or even if Israel doesn't "sell us the radar" it will sell us the tech and know-how that cannot be stopped for a price. How is US going to stop that? Turkey is already out of US control; losing another key middle eastern ally is not something even Obama would want just for some contracts. Let's face it; Jews hold US economy by their walnuts. Israel can only be pushed around that much as long as it doesn't cross the red line.
     
  19. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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    too bad for us..
    we have to find another way now
     
  20. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    I read on the internet that we were developing our own AESA radar for LCA.
     
  21. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    DS that was with Israeli cooperation and mainly a customize Isreali Radar. That will also be affected .
     

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