Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

gambit

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@gambit

My main purpose was asking mayfair to be on topic basically. The rockets and the blockade are to different things, and both are wrong as well

And yes raining rockets on civilians are just as illegal as killing innocent civilians by tank shells or bulldozing their houses or even when settlers just shoot at Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza for example.
And just like the Israeli army claims to not target civilians so does HAMAS. http://www.haaretz.com/news/hamas-rocket-attacks-not-aimed-at-israeli-women-children-1.243401

And if you know that Israel withdrew from Gaza in '05, you should also know that once a ceasefire was established between HAMAS and Israel, HAMAS tried to maintained it between June and November before Israel launched its operation cast lead. This is accepted by none other than Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Centre. This Israeli institute state that it was not HAMAS but various factions in defiance of HAMAS who had laucnhed a few mortal shells or rockets. Still HAMAS had done according to this centre as well as other arabic language papers considerable job in locking up these extremists groups.

The point I'm making is that pice-meal solutions won't work as there is a huge trust deficit on both sides. There are still settlements being constructed in west bank and east Jerusalem when this was already accepted to be a part of the new Palestinian state. These actions are not helpful. What should be done is to implement the two-state solution as soon as possible and withdraw completely from Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel is more than capable of retaliating if needed if the security situation is still not improved. And lets not forget, it will by then enjoy diplomatic and trade relations with all the Arab countries and the onus will be on the Palestinians to keep their word
If Hamas cannot control its members, then how does that invalidate Israel's right to security? No...It does not. When a state cede control of a territory to another authority, it is fully within its right to expect the new authority to exercise complete control over the territory. Israel is not in Gaza as a belligerent occupier. Hamas is the ruling authority and therefore is responsible for Israel's security from Gaza's side. You cannot separate Israel's military response to Hamas rockets as it is a response to those rocket attacks. The estimated ten thousand rockets are not 'a few'. If anything, absent a competent authority in Gaza, Israeli military response is the only alternative to those so-called 'extremist groups'.
 

Oracle

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Probe blames Israeli navy for deadly flotilla raid: Report

JERUSALEM: An internal probe by the military has found serious errors by the Israeli navy while preparing and carrying out the deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla in which nine Turkish activists were killed, sparking a global condemnation of the Jewish state, a media report said.

The 150-page Eiland Commission report criticises intelligence gathering and forward planning. It faults the navy of failing to sufficiently consider the possibility that the commandos would encounter violent resistance when attempting to keep the ships out of Gaza, daily Ha'aretz reported.

The internal probe by Israel Defence Forces (IDF) on the deadly raid onboard the Turkish Gaza bound aid ship on May 31 will be released later today.

Even though, it doesn't call for disciplinary action against particular officers, it is to criticise the navy for not cooperating sufficiently with espionage agency Mossad in gathering information ahead of the flotilla's arrival and failing to discuss the process through which the raid was approved, the daily said.

Israel's celebrated espionage agency Mossad had come under flak for failing to warn the establishment of such a possibility, with some columnists demanding that its head resign in the wake of the international criticism.

Nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists were killed in the May 31 raid after they used clubs and knives to attack Israel commandos boarding the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara ship.

Israel had earlier made clear that it will not allow ships to anchor at the Gaza coast in order to enforce its blockade of the Islamist Hamas ruled Gaza Strip, but had agreed to transfer the humanitarian goods onboard the six ships.

The military committee, headed by Maj. Gen. (res.) Giora Eiland, is the first to complete its investigation on the matter and its report comes on a day when the Supreme Court has expressed its desire to extend the scope of another commission of inquiry investigating the issue under the Chairmanship of a retired judge, allowing it to question soldiers who participated in the raid.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-flotilla-raid-Report/articleshow/6159803.cms
 

Neil

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Israeli army finds errors in deadly Gaza ship raid

An Israeli military inquiry released on Monday found intelligence and operational errors in a deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla but defended the use of force behind the killings of nine Turkish activists.

The report was the first of two separate investigations including a judicial-headed panel named by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government into the May 31 raid that strained Israel's relations with Muslim ally Turkey and brought a world outcry that forced it to ease its land blockade on Gaza.

Giora Eiland, a reservist general who headed the army's panel, said, summarizing the findings of a 150-page document, which is classified, supported the use of force and the need for commandos to board one of the vessels so as to intercept it.

"But on the other hand there were mistakes that were made in decisions, including some taken at relatively high levels, which meant that the result was not as had been initially anticipated," Eiland told reporters at the army's headquarters.

"We found there were professional mistakes regarding intelligence and the decision-making process," he added, and also cited what he called "operational mistakes."

A senior security official said a plan devised before the incident, was "reasonable" but may have made a wrong assumption about expecting a dozen or so soldiers to easily subdue a shipload of activists bent on attacking them.

The team of eight investigators "concluded that not all possible intelligence gathering methods were fully implemented" and various intelligence units failed to coordinate, an army statement said, adding that "the anticipated level of violence used against the forces was underestimated."

Some of the commandos, the Israeli military has said, were armed with paintball guns -- but also carried pistols -- in anticipation of only light resistance.

Eiland, who briefed reporters at the military's headquarters in Tel Aviv, said better intelligence on the activists' plan to attack Israeli commandos may have helped prevent bloodshed.

'NO FAILURE OR NEGLIGENCE'

The military's chief of staff, Lieutenant-General Gabi Ashkenazy said in a statement that "no failure or negligence was found" but that there were "mistakes which must be corrected."

There was evidence that activists on the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara opened fire on Israeli commandos, at least in one instance using a weapon they had on board, a senior Israeli security official said.

Activists took three soldiers hostage, an incident that prompted one of the troops to open fire as he boarded the vessel, in an attempt to rescue them and to help extricate wounded forces, the official added.

The official who spoke on condition of anonymity said there was a "high probability" at least one activist had fired the first shot and ballistics tests showed a bullet from a soldier's wound was not fired from an Israeli-issue weapon.

Eiland said the army also had "evidence that there was at least one weapon on this ship before we arrived" and four incidents in which activists opened fire at the troops.

Turkish organizers of the flotilla say activists seized guns from Israeli commandos but threw them overboard.

Eiland said soldiers fired live ammunition "only when they were under real danger to their lives" and that overall the commandos acted in a "very professional way" in response to being attacked by metal rods and knives.

Israel says its naval blockade of Gaza is intended to prevent weapons from reaching its Hamas rulers, but has eased a land embargo of the territory since the flotilla incident.

The civilian panel named by Israel is headed by a former Supreme Court justice, Jacob Turkey, and includes two international observers, but its mandate is seen as too narrow to pose any political threat to Netanyahu.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66B4MQ20100712
 

nandu

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Israel Navy 'Tracking' Gaza Aid Ship

July 14, 2010

Israel's navy says its vessels are following and monitoring a Libyan-commissioned aid ship that had intented to sail to the blockaded Gaza Strip.

The Moldovan-flagged "Almathea" was loitering in international waters some 120 kilometers off the Gaza coast after reportedly developing engine problems.

Israel has said it will turn away or seize the ship rather than let it reach Gaza.

The navy said the captain of the ship had said he would not continue to Gaza but instead change course to the port of Al-Arish, in Egypt.

The Libyan organizers of the aid shipment -- a group chaired by Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi's son, Said al-Islam Qaddafi -- insist the ship is holding course to Gaza.

The ship is carrying 2,000 tons of aid for Gaza and has 12 crew and 15 pro-Palestinian activists on board. Israel has said that after the ship docks in Al-Arish, the aid will be transported by land to Gaza.

The attempt to break the three-year-old Gaza blockade comes after in May Israeli soldiers killed 9 Turks when they boarded another Gaza-bound aid ship.

Yussef Sawan, the executive director of the Gaddafi Foundation, reportedly said late on July 13 that the "Amalthea" was being surrounded by Israeli naval vessels.

Israeli forces have seized several ships carrying aid to Gaza over the past month, including the much-criticized and deadly raid on a flotilla on May 31 that left nine Turks and an American of Turkish descent dead.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Israel_Says_Gaza_Aid_Boat_Diverted_To_Egypt/2099262.html
 

Rebelkid

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Israel Navy 'Tracking' Gaza Aid Ship

July 14, 2010

Israel's navy says its vessels are following and monitoring a Libyan-commissioned aid ship that had intented to sail to the blockaded Gaza Strip.

The Moldovan-flagged "Almathea" was loitering in international waters some 120 kilometers off the Gaza coast after reportedly developing engine problems.

Israel has said it will turn away or seize the ship rather than let it reach Gaza.

The navy said the captain of the ship had said he would not continue to Gaza but instead change course to the port of Al-Arish, in Egypt.

The Libyan organizers of the aid shipment -- a group chaired by Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi's son, Said al-Islam Qaddafi -- insist the ship is holding course to Gaza.

The ship is carrying 2,000 tons of aid for Gaza and has 12 crew and 15 pro-Palestinian activists on board. Israel has said that after the ship docks in Al-Arish, the aid will be transported by land to Gaza.

The attempt to break the three-year-old Gaza blockade comes after in May Israeli soldiers killed 9 Turks when they boarded another Gaza-bound aid ship.

Yussef Sawan, the executive director of the Gaddafi Foundation, reportedly said late on July 13 that the "Amalthea" was being surrounded by Israeli naval vessels.

Israeli forces have seized several ships carrying aid to Gaza over the past month, including the much-criticized and deadly raid on a flotilla on May 31 that left nine Turks and an American of Turkish descent dead.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Israel_Says_Gaza_Aid_Boat_Diverted_To_Egypt/2099262.html
there is something gonna happen out there in the middle east
 

nandu

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Libya Ship 'Stalls' Off Gaza As Israeli Gunboats Hover

JERUSALEM - A Libyan ship loaded with aid for Gaza apparently stalled off the coast of the besieged territory on July 14, its every movement closely watched by a fleet of Israeli warships hovering nearby.

As of the morning of July 14, it was still not clear if the freighter would re-chart a course for the Egyptian port of El-Arish, or would continue to head for the Gaza Strip in defiance of an Israeli naval blockade on the territory.

"The boat is in international waters, 60 miles from El-Arish and 80 miles from Gaza," a military spokeswoman said. "As far as I know, it is not moving."

Overnight, the vessel appeared to have stalled with engine trouble, according to Israel public radio and the Kadhafi Foundation charity involved in the shipment.

Public radio, whose monitor has been listening in to radio transmissions between the ship and the navy, broadcast what it said was the ship's captain reporting his main engine had failed.

The radio later reported that the Israeli boats were within visual range of the vessel, and were contacting the captain with questions every time there was suspicious movement on deck.

In Tripoli, Yussef Sawan, head of the Kadhafi Foundation, confirmed the cargo ship, the Amalthea, had engine trouble, but blamed its lack of progress on the Israeli navy.

"Because of a malfunction, the cargo ship was moving slowly, but now it has stopped. The Israeli navy is preventing us from moving," Sawan said.

"Eight Israeli warships are surrounding the Libyan aid ship for Gaza and preventing the continuation of its journey," he said.

The ship, which is carrying a cargo of 2,000 tons of foodstuffs and medicine, has been charted by the the Kadhafi Foundation. The charity is run by Seif al-Islam, son of Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi.

Sawan said earlier that the warships were "threatening" the cargo ship which he said was still headed for Gaza, denying an Egyptian claim that it was due to arrive in El-Arish, an Egyptian port about 50 kilometers from Gaza.

"The ship is still headed for Gaza and will not change course," Sawan said.

On July 13, the ship's Cuban captain had told the navy he would change course and head for El-Arish, an Israeli official said.

However, warships continued to closely monitor the ship, fearing the move was a ruse, he said.

Speaking to the Maariv daily, a senior military official said naval forces were not expecting any problems from those on board but they were prepared to respond if it became necessary.

"We do not expect any resistance," he said. "But if our soldiers do encounter problems, they will not hesitate to use force."

The last time Israel tried to stop Gaza aid ships the resulting skirmishes left nine Turks, including a dual U.S. national, dead while dozens of other people were injured, including nine Israeli commandos.

Washington on Tuesday urged both parties to act with caution.

"We have urged the Libyan government to avoid any unnecessary confrontation," said State Department spokesman Philip Crowley, calling on all parties "to act responsibly" in meeting Gaza's needs.

Mashallah Zwei, a representative of the charity on the boat, said July 13 that the navy had "threatened to send their warships to intercept the boat and escort it toward the (southern Israeli) port of Ashdod if we do not change course."

The 92-meter (302-foot) freighter had left Greece on July 10 carrying a crew of 12 of various nationalities, along with nine passengers: six Libyans, a Nigerian, a Moroccan and an Algerian national, the shipping agent said.

Earlier this week, Israel's military published the results of an internal inquiry into the May 31 raid, which found that while mistakes had been made, the troops' use of live fire was "justified."

Global pressure over the May 31 debacle forced Israel to significantly change its policy on Gaza, and now it prevents only the import of arms and goods it says could be used to build weapons or fortifications.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4707858&c=MID&s=SEA
 

mayfair

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Did anyone take note of the stack of expired and useless medicines that were on board?
Or the huge haul of knives- not the kitchen ones but combat knives and daggers which the peace activists had stashed on board
 

mayfair

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Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal?

(Reuters) - Israel has said it will continue a naval blockade of the Gaza Strip despite growing global pressure to lift the siege after a navy raid on a Turkish ferry carrying aid killed nine activists this week.

What is the legality of the blockade and did Israel's intervention breach international law? Below are some questions and answers on the issue:

CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?

Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."

Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.

"On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.

WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?

Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a "territorial sea" of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed "innocent passage" through such waters.

There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the "contiguous zone" over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.

"However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the "high seas" or international waters," Roche said.

The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.

Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say.

CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?

Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.


"If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.

Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.

Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.

"But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response," Kraska said.

The use of force may also have other repercussions.

"While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.

"However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."

OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL'S RAID "PIRACY." WAS IT?

No, as under international law it was considered a state action.


"Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest," Kraska said.

HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SHIPPING DISRUPTIONS AFTER THE RAID?

None so far but the International Chamber of Shipping (ICS), an association which represents 75 percent of the world's merchant fleet, has expressed "deep concern" over the boarding by Israeli forces, arguing that merchant ships have a right to safe passage and freedom of navigation in international waters.

"These fundamental principles of international law must always be upheld by all of the world's nations," the ICS said.
 

Tshering22

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Oh the typical 'Palestinians are innocent angels' News. Israeli citizens get attacked with 1000s of Qassam rockets from Hamas and Hizbullah. What about that? Does the "humanitarian" news portray that? No it doesn't at that time these so-called rights activists are sleeping with earplugs on. They wake up only when Israel strikes back against these terrorists. Gaza is only not recognized by Muslim countries worldwide and that too with Egypt and Jordan now recognize it as an integral part of Israel just like Kashmir is ours.

I see a common pattern of victim pretending between the Kashmiri separatists and Palestinian radicals , who show as if they're "homeless, jobless, angelic victims of evil Israelis". First of all, Palestinians are not existent.. they trace their grandfathers to either Syria, Jordan or Lebanon migrating to the region of what is currently Israel. Having personally encountered Palestinians living in the West during my travels, they themselves admit so. If the Arabs who so dedicatedly claim to support their "cause", then why cannot they call off Palestinians to Saudi or Iran or any other place where there's so much landmass and who shout so much for Palestinian rights? Where's their so called "Arab blood and religious brotherhood" when they can see their supposedly own people suffer?

Where was Turkey since last 40 years when Israel was ruling the region? Suddenly one night Erdogan wakes up and remembers his "brothers" now that he's got sufficient hi-tech weapons from Israel? What hypocrisy is this? Turkey was wrong to meddle in what is Israel's internal affair. Remember how we Indians felt when Bill Clinton tried meddling in Kashmir.

This itself shows the political nonsense behind the whole issue just as Pakistani two-faced attitude. Look at the example from our country itself: We were concerned about the Buddhists of Tibet when CCP made their life a living hell and we offered them refuge, showing our genuine concern in our actions. Do we see that from Arabs or Iranians or any other so called "against Israel" country?

How would we as Indians feel if our blockade against Kashmiri separatists is suddenly attempted through by Turks or any other Islamic country?

We're a neutral country and should remain silent in this matter. If we cannot help our strategic friends, let us not make it difficult for them because remember we too have a fundamentalist Islamist insurgency in the state of Kashmir.
 

ejazr

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@Tshering22

Can you give any source where Israeli govt. has claimed Gaza to be integral part of Israel? Forget Egypt or Jordan. I think you are mistaken on this point because Israel has officially accepted on the two state solution with East Jerusalem as its capital. That is where the 1967 borders come into play. Any new Palestinian state will include Gaza and West Bank and Israeli govt. has agreed to that. That is where the two state solution comes into play and that is what US is pushing.

The same does not apply to Kashmir at all. That is why I keep reiterating that the ISrael-Palestine issue does not apply to India-Kashmir because everyone acceptes including Israel that the end solution is a two state solution. Its not the same in Kashmir. Equating them is quite wrong.
 

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