Is the Pakistan army martial?

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by The Messiah, Jul 29, 2013.

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  1. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Is the Pakistan army martial?

    Are Punjabi Muslims martial? Do they have a history of war and conquest or at least of resistance to conquest? I ask because there’s no evidence of their martial character in our history. No general, no subedar, no thanedar, no wazir, no bakhshi of the Mughal empire was a Punjabi Muslim so far as I know. :rofl:

    I might be wrong about this but there are only two Punjabi Muslims named in Mughal texts. The first is Kamaal Khan Gakkhar, who submitted (without fighting) to Akbar in 1576, according to Akbarnama. The second is Jalal Khan Gakkhar, an old man named among the victims by Jahangir in a skirmish with Afghans in 1620. A third reference is indirect, the name of the author of Shah Jahan’s Padishahnama is Shaikh Abdul Hamid “Lahori”. The Ain-e-Akbari has one joint reference to Janjuas and Awans, calling them tribes conquered by Afghans. There are of course Punjabi Hindus (mainly Khatris) who fought for the Mughals with distinction. Like Todar Mal, who led the sapping at the siege of Chittorgarh against the Sisodiya Rajputs, and also settled the revenue system for Akbar. Maathir ul Umara says Todar Mal was born in Lahore, though British scholars thought this was Laharpur in Awadh.

    Where are the Punjabi Muslims? The fact is that the Punjabi Muslim is a convert mainly from the peasantry (Jat) which is not martial. General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is Gakkhar, a caste that claims Rajput ancestry. The second Rohtas fort was built by Sher Khan Suri to pacify the Gakkhars. In his Tuzuk, Jahangir makes the remark in passing that the Gakkhars are warlike, but adds that they only fight among themselves. Meanwhile Rajput, Afghan, Maratha, Sikh, Jat (Hindu) and tribal Hindu generals all fought for and against Mughal armies. Rajputs had to be continually submitted by force, except for the loyal Kachwahas of Ambar (Jaipur). Right down to Aurangzeb, according to Maasir-e-Alamgiri, Mewar’s Sisodiyas and Marwar’s Rathors resisted the emperor. I clarify here that Muslims other than Punjabis fought the Mughals, and some very well.

    Uttar Pradesh’s Rohilla Afghans were enemies of the Mughals and one of them (Najibud Daulah) ruled from Mughal Delhi for 10 years. Turkish-speaking Turani Sunnis and Farsi-speaking Irani Shias were the most important parties in the Mughal court. The former ranked as better fighters than the latter, who were better administrators. The fiercest Indian-origin Muslims were Shias, the Syeds of Barha (in Uttar Pradesh). The Maratha light cavalry was devastating and ended Muslim rule over India. The Sikhs captured Punjab and raided west up to Kabul and east up to the Doab. The Jats south of Delhi made life miserable for the later Mughals. Even the Baniya general Hemu showed martial character, almost ending Mughal rule before falling at the second battle of Panipat.

    What exactly did the Punjabi Muslim do? Invaders who got past Peshawar could then only be stopped at Karnal or Panipat because they went through Punjab undisturbed. It is true that the armies of both Nadir Shah and Ahmed Shah Abdali were harassed in Punjab on their return with Mughal booty, but their attackers were Sikhs, not Muslims. Punjab was a quiet state. Punjabi Muslims neither rebelled against Mughal Delhi nor fought any invader whether Afghan or Persian. Was this because the Punjabi did not want to fight other Muslims? Not really, because he did not even resist being conquered easily by Sikhs.

    It is the Englishman who 150 years ago gave the Punjabi Muslim a rifle and taught him how to use it. But this did not require any martial background. The British Bengal army was full of UP Brahmins (like Mangal Pandey). It is only after this formation of the modern regiments, that Punjabi Muslims are called martial by writers like GF MacMunn. After the English left, the record of Punjabi Muslims at war under their own generals is not sterling. I count one draw and one loss and I’m being charitable. Against the Pashtun Talib the record is not encouraging, despite the thousands of martyrs. Nadir Shah said of Indian Muslims after the battle of Karnal that they “know how to die, but not how to fight”.

    This is fine and many states of India are not martial. Few soldiers were produced by Bengal’s Hindus for instance, and not many by Gujarat even today. But they don’t have the militant bombast of the Punjabi Muslim (who apparently equals 10 Hindus). I’m just wondering what this bombast is based on because I cannot figure it out.

    Is the Pakistan army martial? – The Express Tribune

    Shameless creatures always try to pass themselves off as mughals, only a small percentage muhajirs had connection to mughals and they too migrated from mainland India to pakistan. Bloody deluded pakis!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
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  3. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Going by the recent news reports they'd be classified as surrender monkeys.
     
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  4. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Retired Pakistani army Major Agha Humayun Amin wrote about the Pakistani army feeling of martial superiority :
    The "Martial Races Theory" in reality was an Imperial gimmick to boost the ego of the cannon fodder. Various British writers like Philip Mason frankly admitted that the real reason for selective recruitment was political reliability in crisis situations, which the Punjabis had exhibited during the 1857-58 Bengal Army rebellion.

    Pakistan the nation was formed with the belief that its army was, from the beginning, somehow superior by virtue of its being composed of martial races. Maj. Amin goes on to write:

    The Pakistani nation had been fed on propaganda about martial superiority of their army...the Pakistani GHQ placed entire reliance on the Superior Valour and Martial Qualities of the Pakistani (Punjabi and Pathan Muslim soldier) vis a vis the Hindu Indian soldier, as proved in 1965 war and felt that somehow, in the next war to miracles would occur and the Pakistan Army would do well
     
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  5. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    No doubt they are ready to face a bigger enemy without a fear

    while the bigger enemy is afraid of the martial army because it threaten the existance of them
     
  6. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    well its due to fear of west and india and unable to guard Baluchistan ur army ordered ur govt to sold gawadar to china
     
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  7. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Gwadar doesnt fall under balochistan..

    federal govt bought gwadar from oman
     
  8. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    LOL this makes Afghan contention even stronger for FATA/NWFP, as it was a deal between Durrani's and British, where did paksitan come in?

    This makes Afghan claim on almost whole of FATA/NWFP and many other conquered parts of pakistan as their own! ;)
     
  9. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    "Surrender PIGS" to be precise.

    On topic... Pakistan was created in 47 and the first thing they did was sending Kabailis to attack/plunder/rape and occupy Kashmir.

    Now this PROVES that they couldn't dare to attack even a small thing called Kashmir on their own and needed lawless brutes terrorists from NWFP as a proxy.And then in 71 they surrendered en masses ie. 1/3 or their total Army or almost 100,000.

    In Kargil they REFUSED to take back rotting bodies of their own soldiers inside Indian territory."Hindu" India had to provide Islamic rituals where the "Islamic Pakistan" let their soldiers rott.

    So Pakis are NOT martial but bunch of SUBMISSIVE Hijra's hiding behind few terrorists since they can't fight a professional Army like Indian Army. Pak Army can only hide under Ghaghra of terrorists.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  10. Decklander

    Decklander New Member

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    Gwader was gifted to Oman as dowry by the Khan of Kalat at the time of the marriage of his daughter to sultan of Oman. Pakistan bought it back from Oman.
     
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  11. Dinesh_Kumar

    Dinesh_Kumar Regular Member

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    PA considers itself martial, snippets found in Maj. AH Amin's book .......
     
  12. Dinesh_Kumar

    Dinesh_Kumar Regular Member

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    PA considers itself martial, snippets found in Maj. AH Amin's book .......

    if anyone come across the book, pls post the quotes here..........some are quite good i believe, talks abt "superior quality" of troops and betrayal by top leaders,etc.
     
  13. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Below is the mental situation of Pak Army...... reality vs dream!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    :rofl:
    1000 years and not a single pregnant woman in India? Not a single child of the Pakistani race? Napunsak is the name for that. Hijras have more masculinity. India untouched by Pakis. We are a different race.

    What is your manhood? Your potency? A long tongue is no use. I mean OK, Pakistanis are illiterate beggars. but at least they should know how to produce children from their slaves no? If Pakistanis follow Islam and Islam does not allow slaves, then Indians were never slaves of Pakis. But no. Islam allows slavery. So how come your four fathers could not get even one slave girl pregnant? Enquiring minds would like to know :rofl:
     
  15. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    A similar thread has been posted more than a year ago


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
     
  16. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    one word

    we dont want harami to be muslims
     
  17. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    The exact same article has been posted before. It is a well-known fact that Punjabi mussalmans have always been slaves (they are still slaves even today, to Uncle Sam and the Neo-Han Empire).
     
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  18. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    You forgot to mention the Arab slave drivers!
     
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  19. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    slave drivers?lol no,mehnat mazduri is this we call.

    Punjabi itself are superior to anything born in india ever.not even there old brother teenabi or doabi are equal to them
     
  20. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    gawadar is still part of Baluchistan geographically and part of Pakistan. still you and ur army has to pass through Baluchistan to reach gawadar:p:p
     
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  21. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    LOL Then what are you? ;)
     
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