Is PLA 15th Div para-drop in TIBET 1988 a hoax ?

Discussion in 'China' started by Kunal Biswas, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    PLA`s 15th Airborne Corps

    The PLA Air Force 15th Airborne Corps, comprises three airborne divisions (43rd, 44th, 45th airborne divisions). The PLA Air Force’s 15th Airborne Corps is China’s primary strategic airborne unit and it is part of the newly formed rapid reaction units (RRU) of the Chinese military which is primarily designated for airborne and special operation missions. Unlike most armed forces, the airborne division is part of the Air Force and its role is similar to that of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division.

    These three divisions can deploy to any part of China within 48 hours:

    * 43rd Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
    * 44th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
    * 45th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)

    The PLAAF could lift all three division of 33,000 men with light tanks and self-propelled artillery. Reports claim that a 10,000 man airborne division was transported to Tibet in less than 48 hours in 1988.

    15th Airborne Corps to acts as a principal force employed for independent campaign missions in future wars. It is now accepted that the airborne troops should be used for pre-emptive attack on the enemy's key military targets in the rear area in order to paralyze or disrupt its preparation for an offensive. This kind of large-scale mission cannot be conducted without having a total control in the air. Also, a single-lift capability of 50,000 men is required for this type of missions.


    The Airborne Divisions have various special units, including weapons controllers, reconnaissance, infantry, artillery, communications, engineering, chemical defense, and transportation soldiers. Today, the Airborne Divisions have three regiments plus one light artillery regiment, which are further divided into battalions and companies.


    In times of war, the 15th Airborne Corps can also utilize civilian aircraft such as Shaanxi Y-9, Shaanxi Y-8, Xian Y-7, C-130s, HU-1s, AS332s, Chinooks, and a very large number of Y-5 (700+) utility transports. During a number of exercises, the 15th Airborne Corps has demonstrated it can move a regiment plus of paratroopers with light armored vehicles to anywhere within China in less than 24 hours. These exercises also show that a large number of para-gliders are in use.


    These PARA-troopers ( SF ) are very capable force in disrupting supplies and reinforcement to frontal isolated zones up in mountains and plans..

    The type of operation is very similar to once Op-market garden in WW2..
     
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  3. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Great thread Kunal, but you missed the most important aspect, i.e. air assets. PLAAF does not have enough transport aircrafts. I find the legend of transporting an entire division in less than 48 hours in 1988 a bit over the top.

    Currently, PLAAF fields less than half the number of transports when compared to IAF.
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I would say its as over top if its in some other links, It has been done so it is there..

    There 20 IL-76 and 30 on order this also including other transports..
     
  5. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    None of them were there in the 88.
     
  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Then Y8 can do the job..

     
  7. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    If that's the case, would you like to explain the relatively smaller number of Y-8s operational. Going by their commie doctrine, they mass produce every working design but that's not the case here.

    Production of Y-8 started in the early 80s.

    In 88 they landed 11,000 troops and light armour in 48 hours by using a handful of Y-8s and other WW2 era aircrafts. Sorry mate but I am simply not buying it.

    PS: Current transport fleet of PLAAF stands today (2011) at 3-5 Y 8, ~80 AN-26, ~10 IL-76 and a couple of others. Now you decide.
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Is Y8 The Shaanxi Y-8 or Yunshuji-8 (Chinese: 运-8) aircraft which is a medium size medium range transport aircraft produced by Shaanxi Aircraft Company in China, based on the Soviet Antonov An-12.

    If so, AN 12 is what one would say is ancient!

    I believe It is capable of hauling 20 tons of cargo, approximately 96 soldiers, or about 82 paratroopers in the cargo compartment which is 13.5 metres long, 3 metres wide and 2.4 metres high.
     
  9. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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  10. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sir, vintage of design hardly matters if it is a good design. B-52 and C-130 are fine examples. It is the lack of numbers that intrigues me.

    They could have had transported the division if the distance was like Mumbai and Pune or even less than that.
     
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  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    If that is, then its interesting..

    Can you find some info on there older transports may be Russian heavies..




    Without heavies this airlift is not possible over that altitude..
     
  12. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Few AN-2 and IL-14 and others. Tu-154 was most likely the heaviest transport aircraft in PLAAF during 80's IMO. Then again, only 4 are operational and being an airliner it can only transport troops.
     
  13. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is no way to tell if it is a hoax or not if you dont even provide the source.

    Reports claim that a 10,000 man airborne division was transported to Tibet in less than 48 hours in 1988.

    For instance, which report/reports.
     
  14. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Most ridiculous claim I've heard all year. If 20 Il76's, 45 Y8's, 80 Y7, not to mention the over 300 Y5 light transports still in service
     
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  15. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Correction: Current transport fleet of PLAAF stands today (2011) at 45 Y 8, ~80 AN-26, 20 IL-76 and 300 Y5's, not to mention the new Y9's now entering service.

    I cant believe you thought there were only 3-5 Y8's. There are pics of more than ten in the Chinese Military Pics and Videos thread alone.. Using logic alone, how does the production of an aircraft start in the early 80's yet in 2011 they number "3-5"? *shaking head*
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  16. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    But that does not answer the question ..

    What are the aircraft used to transport such huge amount of troops and equipment in 48 that far ?
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Let us say that the AB Corps was lifted.

    In 48 hours!

    A Corps would mean how many:

    Personnel.
    Vehicles
    Artillery pieces
    Armour/ Mechanised
    Engineers
    Chemical Biological Warfare Units
    Engineer Vehicles
    Artillery and other ammunition for a whole Corps to include First Line, Second Line, WWR
    Combat Support Units (ASC, Ordnance, EME, MPs, AMC, Field Hospitals et etc with their stores, vehicle, equipment.

    What would be the airspace that it would occupy in those 48 hours?

    War does not mean the same a locusts coming in!

    There has to be airspace management and airspace sanitisation against hostile threat.

    It is not like a commercial flight with passengers on board.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    2006 CURRENT ESTIMATED INVENTORY PLAAF



    ===========================================================

    People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF)

    Aerospatiale SA.316 6
    Aerospatiale SA.321 10
    Aerospatiale SA.342L 8
    Antonov AN-26 12
    Antonov AN-30 8
    Boeing 767-300ER 1
    Boeing 737 10
    Boeing 737C3 1
    British Aero Trident 1E 6
    British Aero Trident 2E 10
    Canadair CL-601 5
    Changhe Z-11 30 AS-555
    Chengdu J-10 12
    Chengdu J-7 322 MiG-21
    Chengdu J-7II 99
    Eurocopter AS332 6
    Guizhou JJ-7 50 MiG-21
    HAIG K-8J 25
    Harbin H-5 150 Il-28
    Harbin HJ-5 87 Il-28
    Harbin Hz-5 40 Il-28
    Harbin Y-11 15
    Harbin Y-12 2
    Harbin Z-6 30
    Harbin Z-9 25 AS365N
    Ilyushin KL-2000 2
    Ilyushin IL-18 10
    Ilyushin IL-76 20
    MiG (* see note) MiG-31 24
    Mil MI-6 3
    Mil MI-8 30
    Mil MI-17 24
    Mil MI-171 69
    Mil MI-171v-5 35
    Nanchang CJ-6 1419 MiG-19
    Nanchang Q-5 500
    Shaanxi Y-8 48 An-12
    Shenyang J-6 1000 MiG-19
    Shenyang J-7 300 MiG-21
    Shenyang J-8/-8II 180
    Shenyang JJ-6 150 MiG-19
    Shenyang JZ-6 100 MiG-19
    Shenyang J-11 67 SU-27SK
    Shijiazhuang Y-5 300 An-2
    Sikorsky S-70 22
    Sukhoi SU-27SK 52
    Sukhoi SU-27UBK 40
    Sukhoi SU-30 72
    Tupolev TU-154M/D 4
    Xian H-6 132 Tu-16
    Xian Y-7 23 An-24

    People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN)

    Chengdu Z-8 12 SA321
    Chengdu J-7 100 MiG-21
    Harbin H-5 50 IL-28
    Harbin H-6 30 Tu-16
    Harbin SH-5 4
    Harbin Z-5 6 Mi-4
    Harbin Z-9 25 AS365N
    Kamov Ka-28 8
    Nanchang Q-5 93
    Shaanxi Y-8 AEW 2
    Shenyang J-5 100 MiG-17
    Shenyang J-6 300 MiG-19
    Sukhoi SU-30 24
    Shijiazhuang Y-5 50 AN-2
    Xian H-6 51
    Xian Y-7 4 AN-24
    Xian JH-7 20

    (* unconfirmed transfer)

    The last figures are the numbers of aircraft with the PLAAF and PLAN.

    CHINESE AIR POWER - PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY AIR FORCE
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
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  20. GromHellscream

    GromHellscream Regular Member

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    Civil airlines for troops, transporters for equipments, if short of planes.
    And delivering a division into Tibet in 48 hours is far from amazing nowadays.
    With the help of railroad net and preset equipments in Tibet, several corps can be moved to hold positions quickly enough.
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Y-8 BALANCE BEAM AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING

    MAKER: SHAANXI AIRCRAFT INDUSTRY CORP.
    TYPE: AIRBORNE RADAR EARLY WARNING
    LENGTH: 121 FEET 4 INCHES
    SPAN: 124 FEET 8 INCHES
    RANGE: 3000 MILES
    HEIGHT: 34.22 FEET
    WEIGHT: 118,000 POUNDS NORMAL TAKE OFF
    ENGINE: FOUR P&W CANADA PW150B TURBOPROP
    TOP SPEED: 380 MPH

    The new Chinese Y-8 is truly an international effort. The Y-8 is a Chinese version of the Russian AN-12 military transport. The aircraft was developed with the assistance of Ukrainian Antonov Design Bureau. The new Y-8 Chinese airborne radar plane includes navigation avionics from U.S. maker Honeywell, four Pratt and Whitney Canada PW150B turboprop engines and British Dodi R-408 6-blade propellers.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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