Is Pakistan a beggar nation ?

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by satyam, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. satyam

    satyam New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    14
    Is their any country with which Pakistanis don't beg ?

    http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/foreign_assistance.pdf ( Page 36)

    There are 28 institute with which Pakistan has gone with begging bowl for jakat on war against terrorist and the aid turns out to be 5 billion $ for 2010-11. You can add another 2 billion $ they will get from USA and that turns out to be total 7 billion $ AID for exporting terrorism throughout the world.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2010
    nitesh likes this.
  2.  
  3. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    467
    Actually, we need to really find whether any other nation has begged so much in its entire history. I think Pakistan will be in the top 3 beggar nations...
     
  4. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    Lets argue against your assertion.

    From your link, Using 09-10 Revised Estimate

    A. Development AID

    1. Project AID
    Loans - 90.5bn PKR
    Grants - 16bn PKR

    2. Commodity AID
    Loans - 45bn PKR
    Grants - 12.5bn PKR

    3. Tokyo Pledges
    Loans - 66bn PKR
    Grants - 29.5bn PKR

    4. Other Aid
    Loans - 121.5bn PKR
    Grants - 67.5bn PKR

    B. Non Plan Aid
    Loans - 9bn PKR
    Grants - 9bn PKR

    Total 596bn PKR = 6.96bn U$
    Loans 459bn PKR = 5.36bn U$
    Grants 137bn PKR = 1.6bn U$

    ---

    Compare this with India.

    The World Bank is committed to supporting India's development agenda as is evident from the record annual lending of 9.3 billion dollars for the current financial year.

    http://news.oneindia.in/2010/06/24/worldbank-lends-93-billion-to-india-in-fy10.html

    OUCH ??
     
  5. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Most of those are loans. I don't consider it begging when you have to pay it back with interest.
     
  6. satyam

    satyam New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    14
    World bank is not doing any favour. It will take all the money with interest.
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    Apparently Pakistan is getting loans as per the report satyam linked us to.
    In any case most of the loans India and Pakistan get as part of Development Assistance/Aid are zero-low interest.


    It can't be argued that Pakistan is a beggar state because it gets x billion dollars of assistance or aid but it can be argued Pakistan is a beggarly state because it needs aid to survive, as its fiscal position is weak and its economy stagnant.
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    What is the interest rate ? Doh ! and same case with Pakistan, most of the Aid/Assistance Pakistan is getting are not grants but zero-low interest long term loans.
     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Pakistan can't be called a beggar state because it takes loans. It is called a beggar state because they literally beg for weapons and food.
     
    AirforcePilot likes this.
  10. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,548
    it's not begging. PAK in the eyes of those institutions is so 'useful' that they (esp. US, Gulf countries) voluntarily offer aids/loans for PAK

    in the past often read u folks degrading PAK as China's 'proxy' (rarely heard your outspokenly labelling PK as a proxy of the US or....). now u're upgrading PAK to a 'beggar' ranking. good job!
     
  11. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    467
    Awesome!!! Agreed. But what exactly is Pak's usefulness? Its clear that Pak offers itself as a rentier state, but what purpose does it serve? Is it CAR? Is it India?
    Also, for a country to be a good rentier state, there needs some power centre on which the master can depend on, lets assume this power centre is PA. Thus, PA is a rent boy of US/China/KSA. PA, of course, guzzles away most of the aid and uses the 'India' card to justify it to its people. To keep the 'india' card alive, PA needs Kashmir on a perpetual boil.
     
    Sridhar likes this.
  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,548
    Where have the aid/loans gone? curiously PAK is still lagging behind economically.

    Don't inflate 'India card' for PAK... Look at the atlas everybody knows its strategic location and why PAK becomes a favourite deserving 'aids/loans' from multi parties


    Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari will visit China again, now for Shanghai EXPO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2010
  13. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    Despite what people here say, Pakistan almost every year gets 2-5 billion of dollars for free from US alone. Kerry-Lugar bill itself gives 1.5 billion dollars every year for next 5 years. In addition, USAID also gives a lot of money every year, usually in hundreds of millions, to Pakistan for various projects and rehabilitation programs. In addition to this, US also pays Pakistani Army for its charade of War on Terror where PA puffs up its bills to get more money.

    And US has also forgave many previous loans it has given to Pakistan.

     
  14. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    to support the thread:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100701-704603.html
    Pakistan Gets $710 Mln From International Donor Agencies - Official

     
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    Last time he visited the Chinese gave very little disappointing the Pakistanis, to compete with USA for Pakistan's love shouldn't China be doing a lot more??
     
  16. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    Very soon Pakistan is going to become liability to both USA and China. China may sell them weapons but there will not be any free gifts or loans . Chinese are shrewd businessman. They will not waste even a single penny if they can save it. Once USA is Out of Afganistan their aid will also stop . So right now Pakistan is trying to milk out maximum from both China and America . USA is giving them money and they are using it to buy weapons from China.
     
  17. BunBunCake

    BunBunCake Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    In front of the computer
    The money the USA gave (military aid), it doesn't give in MONEY FORM to Pakistan. Think of it as an allowance. Pakistan can only buy from the US with that money. It's not allowed to allocate that money elsewhere.

    So If Pakistan wants to buy from China, it has to buy using it's own money.
     
  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    The Pakistanis are not paying for most of their weapons USA donates and China gives soft loans. Simple question if you don't get paid for something are you going to rush to do it?? or do a good job??
     
  19. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Location:
    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    from when on have grants and loans been termed as aid, and yes these will be termed as assistance since either they attract no interest but just finance expenses or interest which is bare minimal and pay back period of which runs if not more then certainly between 15-40 years depending on the terms and conditions negotiated.

    guess what india is negotiating a huge assistance well over 50b usd with the WB, so will we start terming india as the biggest beggar of them all?

    page 36 specifically details loans and grants!
     
    Quickgun Murugan, Singh and amoy like this.
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,548
    there's nothing like 'begging'. investment is made on an equal footing. no hard feelings no alms. both 'giver' and 'receiver' reap benefits from mutual ventures, not necessarily relevant to 'containing' or 'encirclement' of a 3rd party, nor any competition with the US for &^% favour.

    Pakistan is the most shrewd, knowing why the US gets generous... China is here to stay as a neighbor and investor. investment has a lasting effect in contrast with 'aid' or 'loans', in promoting local capacity to get sustainable.

    helping our neighbor is for our own good in the end.

    a friend in need is a friend indeed


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    China In Pakistan

    A brief history of the two countries' strategic relationship.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2007 Chinese investment in Pakistan was valued at $4 billion, a figure that's estimated to grow to $15 billion by 2010. Given the range of multibillion-dollar projects in which different Chinese companies are currently involved, it is safe to assume that Chinese investment in Pakistan has already exceeded $20 billion, says Tarique Niazi. (Even the colorful auto-rickshaws that run on the streets of Lahore and the North West Frontier Province are made in China.)

    China-Pakistan strategic relations began in the late 1950s, when then prime minister Hussain Shaheed Suhrawardy met with Chinese premier Zhou Enlai in Indonesia for the foundational meeting of the Non Aligned Movement countries. Later Pakistani leader Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, in his varying capacities as minister of natural resources or of foreign affairs, as well as president and prime minister, tended these relations to their strategic heights, says Niazi.

    There was a dramatic growth in relations when the two countries signed their first trade agreement in 1963; a boundary agreement the same year helped China boost its defense of its Uighur autonomous region of Xinjiang on the China-Pakistan border. In 1966 the two countries started construction of the Karakoram Highway, along one of the old silk routes. Another binding factor was a common enemy: India, which during those years had engaged in separate wars with Pakistan and China.

    State-owned companies--including Tianjin Zhongbei Harbor Engineering Supervision Corp., China Harbor Engineering Company Group, MCC and the Bureau of Geophysical Prospecting (BGP)--are working on a range of projects in Baluchistan. Another area of heavy Chinese investment is Gwadar Port, where Tianjin Zhongbei Harbor Engineering is working on a $1.6 billion project. Next to the port, the China Harbor Engineering Co. is building an international airport. In the same region, China's Great United Petroleum Holdings is developing a $13 billion oil refinery.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  21. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    Check this out.

    Foreign aid to Pakistan
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    Pakistan receives aid from several different countries and the International community. Much of this money goes to the development of stability and civil development within the countries. Some of this aid is plagued by corrupt use of this aid in order to support the agendas of the militarized government.
    Contents
    [hide]

    * 1 Multilateral Aid
    o 1.1 Election Support
    * 2 United States
    o 2.1 Election Support
    o 2.2 Financial aid to Pakistan since 9/11 From U.S
    o 2.3 Military and economic aid
    * 3 References

    [edit] Multilateral Aid
    [edit] Election Support
    Main article: Election Support Group

    One of the biggest organizations supporting the electoral process in Pakistan is the Election Support Group (ESG). ESG is an internationally supported group of interested parties, made 32 specific recommendations to the Election Commission based on the recommendations of 16 international organizations.[1] A meeting was held in October 2009 to present these ideas to the Commission.[2] The Commission commissioned ESG to provide them with a recommendations on how to best solve the addressed problems.[2]
    [edit] United States
    Main article: Pakistan – United States relations

    U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W. Patterson addressed senior bureaucrats at the National Management College and emphasized that the United States will assist Pakistan’s new democratic government in the areas of development, stability, and security.[3] The United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the United Nations World Food Program, in Pakistan, officially announced the signing of an agreement valued at $8.4 million to help ease Pakistan's food crisis.[3] With relations between Pakistan and the United States cooling down, it is expected that Pakistan and the United States could return to being allies again not only in the War on Terror but also in other possible threats to regional and world peace. It is also hoped by the United States that Pakistan under the administration of Asif Ali Zardari would only strengthen relations between Pakistan and the United States.

    On 14 September 2009, former president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, admitted that US Foreign Aid to Pakistan (which is substantial) was diverted by the country from its original purpose to fighting the Taliban, to prepare for war against neighboring India.[4]. The United States government has responded by stating that they will take these allegations seriously.[5].However Pervez Musharraf also said '"Wherever there is a threat to Pakistan, we will use it [equipment provided by the US] there. If the threat comes from al-Qaeda or Taliban, it will be used there. If the threat comes from India, we will most surely use it there,"[4].
    [edit] Election Support

    In 2006, the International Foundation for Electoral Systems implemented a 9 million dollar contract through USAID to install a computerised electoral rolls system for the Pakistani government.[6]

    USAID, along with IFES, UNDP, and NDI have also coordinated a number of initiatives to help train election officials in Pakistan.[7] Part of this activity was the establishment of a Federal Election Academy and a library to support the Election Commission of Pakistan.[7]
    [edit] Financial aid to Pakistan since 9/11 From U.S

    Between 2002-2010, Pakistan received approximately 18 billion[8] in military and economic aid from the United States. In February of 2010, the Obama administration requested an additional 3 billion in aid, for a total of 20.7 billion[9].

    Western officials have claimed nearly 70% ( roughly $3.4 billion) of the aid given to the Pakistani military has been misspent in 2002-2007.However U.S-Pakistani relationship has been a transactional based and U.S military aid to Pakistan has been shrouded in secrecy for several years until recently .[10][11].[11][12] Furthermore a significant proportion of U.S. economic aid for Pakistan has ended up in back in the U.S., as funds are channeled through large U.S. contractors. A U.S. lawmaker also said a large sum of U.S. economic aid has not left the U.S. as it spent on consulting fees and overhead cost.[13][14]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan
     

Share This Page