Is Indian class system the reason for India's poverty?

[ninja85]

You blame Christianity of lot of things, but Christian god takes everybody in, all they have to do is believe. What is your opinion about this? Do you think it has helped the "west" to prosper?

first of all when did i blamed christainity,second you are talking about religion and my point is culture and tradition,caste system is product of culture,tradition and politics and not religion,
does christian god makes your economic policies so that west will remain prosper,

wealth and money are things made by humans for themselves,

humans discriminate god don't or christian god is a discriminating one on basis of religion.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Does even a fraction of that money reach the truly deserving? No. That is the problem.

Public distribution systems is corrupted and inefficient as always in India.

 

[tramp]

The problem is not with the 'concept' of public distribution per se... it's the weak institutional basis and lax surveillance and accountability mechanisms. Need to rectify that before blaming the concept as such. No political party, including the BJP, wants to change the situation because the pilfered funds are a source of income for lower level functionaries.

Public distribution systems is corrupted and inefficient as always in India.

 

[sgarg]

Since this thread was created based on my comment, let me expand.

The Vedic classes are based on qualities, not birth. So a child of Shudra can become a Brahmin and vice-versa. Who determines - the Acharya. Typically uneducated children became Shudra. Any child who attains Vedic education became Brahmin, Kshatriya, or Vaishya based on faculties possessed by the child.

The Acharya is supposed to be totally impartial and a very learned person. The king also bowed to Acharya.

The advice of Acharya was taken for important State matters which kept the harmony in the society.

Today Vedic system is not followed. It has not been followed for a long time. When uneducated child of Brahmin also became Brahmin, the system was destroyed.

Vedic system has very extensive rules for servants (or service class today). A master was supposed to take care of food, housing, even marriage of children, death rites etc.

When uneducated masters became prominent in the society (due to class by birth), the social harmony broke down and the country started becoming poor.

It is very visible in the ruins of Harappa and Mohan-jo-daro (now in Pakistan) where lower layers are of well planned city while upper layers are of a less planned city.

 

[sgarg]

Free money or free food is against Vedic system. Vedic system is based on reward as per intellect and work, not by position.

The system of entitlement by birth is not there in Vedic system.

The land (the land was a measure of wealth in ancient time) was given by the King to learned people, and these people were expected to perform State duties in return.
The non-learned people worked for the learned people like they tilled the land, performed household chores, worked in factories etc.

 

[sgarg]

The high importance of education in India is due to Vedic roots as education was the most important determinant of material success in life. This feeling has stayed despite non-following of Vedic knowledge.

 

[sgarg]

Vedic society of India was quite wealthy. Most people attained the age of 100 years. People were disease free, food was plenty, and most people lived in well built houses in towns and cities.

The Vedic society was mostly urban.

This society went into sharp decline about 5200 years ago.

Only reversal has occurred recently with independence of India in 1947.

 

[sgarg]

Today a "caste system" is practiced which is far worse than "by birth class system". Caste is absolutely illogical and pathetic system.

However people are waking up as they get educated and barriers are falling. We expect India to become an egalitarian society in 40-50 years down the road.

 

[sgarg]

You blame Christianity of lot of things, but Christian god takes everybody in, all they have to do is believe. What is your opinion about this? Do you think it has helped the "west" to prosper?

There is a God. There is no "Christian God". Similarly there is no "Hindu God".

God takes everybody in. No priest can ever separate God from any man or woman.

Christianity did play a role in political consolidation of Europe and unity always leads to greater wealth.

 

[jouni]

Interesting, I did not know that there was such a prospering society in India. What to say, we also had classes before in Europe before. Nordic system gets blamed for not cresting enough economic growth, but I think that it more than enough compensates that with low inequity. Cant imagine how it is to live in a country with great past and problematic todays society. Try not to think too much of the past, concentrate more on future.

 

[Peter]

Vedic society of India was quite wealthy. Most people attained the age of 100 years. People were disease free, food was plenty, and most people lived in well built houses in towns and cities.

The Vedic society was mostly urban.

This society went into sharp decline about 5200 years ago.

Only reversal has occurred recently with independence of India in 1947.

I do not think people lived for 100 years in the Vedic age. I mean what is the source/link for this.

However I do think that class by merit and not birth was a norm in ancient India and this was a great system.

 

[sgarg]

Interesting, I did not know that there was such a prospering society in India. What to say, we also had classes before in Europe before. Nordic system gets blamed for not cresting enough economic growth, but I think that it more than enough compensates that with low inequity. Cant imagine how it is to live in a country with great past and problematic todays society. Try not to think too much of the past, concentrate more on future.

There was no inequity in Vedic system. Even kings lived in modest houses. The Acharya (teachers) lived outside city in very basic housing (mostly thatched roof huts).

There was no show off of wealth. Accumulation of wealth is not considered good in Vedic system and donation is a very important quality needed for spiritual development.

 

[sgarg]

During the Mahabharat war around 5300 years ago, India had fairly good industry and artisanship. India knew copper and iron metallurgy. An example is arrowheads used in the war were made of iron. The chariots used some iron parts which allowed these chariots to achieve good speeds.

Fairly good building techniques were used. Most common were baked brick housing in northern plains. Stone masonry using mortar and dressed stones was well known and was used in Indraprastha fort which can still be seen today in New Delhi.

A common system of currency and measurements was used in the entire Aryavrata despite having several kingdoms.

Trade was very developed.

Indian boats plied to Mesopotamia and Egypt during the time of Mahabharata war 5300 years ago. Gujarat and Sindh coastal area was a major center of boat building and commerce.

 

[sgarg]

Weapons used in Mahabharat war: The common weapons used were bow/arrows, spears, swords, clubs. All these weapons used metals.
The metal making at that time was at a small scale and the uses were limited. Metal making was very expensive and metal was not used as it is used today.

 

[Virendra]

My opinion -
The system may have been a negative factor in the past but not today. Unlike medieval times, caste system (on its last legs) is now almost de-linked from economy.
It still thrives in social norms and transactions like marriages but doesn't impede the economy anymore.
People these days don't really care for the caste of a person they're doing business with.
The progeny of an X caste family is still an X, but only in papers and marriage portals. Job wise he/she is free to occupy whatever place they can with their caliber.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[sgarg]

Yes a healthy environment does lead to a long and happy life. However back in the Vedic age people too had their own problems. Otherwise India`s population growth rate would have been higher. India had a population of 100 million in 500 AD according to historians. In 1500 AD India had the same amount. This is what population enumeration experts have said. So there were diseases back then. Also some diseases like plague,cancer etc cannot be cured just by using Ayurvedic medicine.

How did historians count at 500AD? Anyway Vedic period was long over at 500AD and people have forgotten most of the Vedic knowledge.
Enlightened people have less children, not more. There is good reason to believe that India's population was stable for a long time.

 

[Peter]

How did historians count at 500AD? Anyway Vedic period was long over at 500AD and people have forgotten most of the Vedic knowledge.
Enlightened people have less children, not more. There is good reason to believe that India's population was stable for a long time.

Ok I made a mistake about 500 AD population of India. The percentage of Indians compared to world population remained the same. I have edited my post.
http://www.populstat.info/Asia/indiac.htm

 

[pmaitra]

Discussion on how to lose weight has been moved here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/members-corner/26638-physical-fitness-thread.html

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra - why not have a poll on this!!!!

I agree with the idea of the poll. I think we should debate this topic out for a couple of days. That way, people will make an informed choice, and not an emotional one.

So what are the poll choices? We can have a yes or not vote, or a little bit more descriptive vote.

Is Indian class system the reason for India's poverty?

• Yes.
• No.

To what extent is Indian class system the reason for India's poverty?

• Full extent.
• Large extent.
• Small extent.
• Not at all.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Is class system and low IQ the reason for India's poverty?

The vedic class system is enshrined in Veda. It was the foundation of Vedic society. The current caste system is opposite of class system. The classes were based on qualification and intellect while caste is based on ignorance and arrogance.