Is India heading towards a tragedy ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by CrYsIs, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    Don't want to sound alarmist but i have little reason to be optimistic about our nation's future.


    here is the reason why i think so:-

    1) Politics- India's political climate is characterized by caste and religion based divisive vote bank politics which hinders growth a development.

    Further more india's political structure is flawed with a very weak central government which is often at war with state governments ruled by opposition parties.Coupled with that the country has a corrupt incompetent and inefficient bureaucracy which ensures that the country always remains a laggard.And as a result the country fails to provide even the most basic services like education,healthcare,sanitation etc etc to it's people.


    2) Society - In an era when people in the west are talking of going to mars we have a society that's still stuck in middle ages.Not just the mentality but every aspect of socio economic life.India is filled with caste violence,dowry deaths,female infanticide and all those medieval era horrors!


    3) Malnutrition - we all know that half of our children are malnourished but what's more alarming is the fact that malnutrition permanently damages a child.Instead of becoming a boon on india's economy they would end up becoming a burden which would massively affect our economy.Instead of demographic dividend we would end up with demographic disaster.


    4) Industrialization - Even after 20 years of liberalization no effort has been put on making india an industrialized manufacturing nation like china.
    The govt has concentrated only on service sector industries like IT which only benefits a tiny minority.Had indian govt prioritized manufacturing from the start there would have been a massive poverty reduction.
    Even if India emphasizes manufacturing now there is no guarantee that India would become a second china because india's foundations with regards to industrialization is very weak and not many companies are willing to take huge risks specially when there are countries which are politically more stable,cheaper and provide better infrastructure and are industry friendly.


    No matter what i am still proud to be an indian! thanks a lot!
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Indeed there are good reasons for you to be despondent.

    However, if one observes Indian history, India is like a willow tree which bends in a gale, but as soon as the gale passes, it returns to the upright, but still has the weeping willow ‘ensemble’.

    India is passing through an evolution phase from slavery to independence, from medieval mindset to modernity; and all evolutions are painful.

    Politics and bureaucracy are but a hoary replica of the Raj days and still struggling to change. The politicians, though are the representatives of the people, are yet to realise the full import of their position in a democracy and so they wallow in false pretences that they are but mini Viceroys imparting political administration to the lesser being as was done in the days of the Raj! Hence, they are but upstarts who are rudderless and consumed by a false ego of regal aura that they presume is bestowed on them, all because they have won election, mostly by foul means than fair. But they are changing, albeit very slowly! But take heart, in the race, finally the tortoise one and that is their mantra and dharma[/].

    The Bureaucrats? They are but the legatee of the Raj. Being imperious and questionable to none is but their legacy. Therefore, they alone know what is good for India and the politicians are but only their handmaiden and rubber stamp; all because the majority of Ministers have no clue of their Ministerial functions or knowledge of the workings of the Ministry and its organisation that they preside over.

    Yes, Indian politics is all about ‘secularism’, caste, religion and every type of divide that India can thik of. But you can hardly blame the politicians. They are but children of the wonders of the ‘Divide and Rule’ policy. It worked marvellously for the Raj, so much so, that the British ruled us by the rod for over 300 years. So, what worked so well for the British, should also work for our new political masters and satraps!

    Further, imagination was never a virtue for Indians. So, how can you expect Indian politicians to be imaginative and not follow the time tested ‘Straight and Narrow’? Dumb people will get Dumb Masters. QED.

    However, take heart. Every black cloud has a silver lining. Imagine how wonderful leveller India is. Today, there is a man who used to serve tea in a small teashop, normally called ‘chokra boy’ by the rustic customers, is tipped to lead the Nation, if the pollster got their polls right! Isn’t that some achievement for India? How many advanced nation call claim this unique feat?

    And on the other hand, the so called ‘royalty’, a child born with a silver spoon, and the natural legatee to the Delhi Sultanate, even after being pushed and goaded by all and sundry, is wallowing rudderless, confused spouting clichés that are so well worn that none are impressed!

    Therefore, how can you say India is not the Land of Opportunities?

    Malnutrition is a buzz word. It is ideal for political mileage. Chuck in the Food Security Bill and malnutrition will vanish! That is what Aruna and friends were stating before she found herself the door to escape ignominy! No sir, stuffing one’s stomach with grains alone will not get rid of malnutrition. The way to get rid of malnutrition is through, what is known as ‘a balanced meal’. Are the politicians, bureaucrats and social Pollyannas listening? But to ensure that, it requires money and an empty coffer does not encourage such luxury!

    Industrialisation? Why do you feel we are lagging behind? Have you not seen the various junk food industries flourishing? It is good for the economy and good to ensure more malnutrition. On the right path, right? And why should be industrialise? Have we not got a surfeit of cheap goods from China? Let them slog in sweat shops and cramped industrial confines. Why should we when they are doing the dirty job for us. Logic, right?

    I am also proud to be an Indian. I pay tax and by the year, they keep increasing it with what they call the Indirect taxes. Service charge, education tax, excise tax and ever so many taxes and the sum increases annually every time the Finance Minister (whoever the bloke be) ‘rises to present the Budget’. Poor oaf does not realise that with his rise, we fall!

    And by the way, he, the Finance Minister, is careful not to tax areas where he indulges in! Wise old owl, what ho?

    Petrol prices or gas prices is no concern for the Govt. They have Govt vehicles that run on endless fuel! They mostly are invited out to lavish dos and so where is the problem of running a kitchen at home?

    No sir, India is Shining. Bharat Nirman and that pizzazz.

    And the secret to beat a poor economy, rising inflation, high prices for everything is -

    Be Indian, Buy Chinese!

    And if you want to show you are a concerned Indian, join a foreign funded NGO and go on a jaunt with diamonds oozing out of every pore attired in foreign designer attire, and mingle with the deprived spouting sweet nothings and promising the world! You would have arrived!

    Maybe you will be welcomed to a 5 Star do to discuss the poverty and malnutrition and social injustices as you nip into a foreign exotic cheese and France's best wine to chase it down with France's best champagne.

    Maybe the next elevation that will await you is the coveted NAC, the bete noire of the hapless Manmohan Singh, who is still trying to find out if indeed he is the PM!
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
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  4. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Regular Member

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    this is all how we look to the situation... in comparison to industrialist nations and western nation we are lacking behind by miles but in comparison of our past we are miles ahead... during the time of colonization we were left in medieval era and from mid 20th century we have to compete these developed nation on their dominated field with very few things we had and that too with leaders who has their self-interest supreme and people who don't gave a damn about anything else apart from their stomach, their money, their community. not a good team to win I must say.

    If I am not wrong.. famine and death by it were the common things in India even decades after the independence but now at-least people are malnourished not completely hungry or dieing because of hunger on that large scale... I may be sound ruthless but in comparison of past we are in a better situation. same goes with industrialization, education, cast-ism, and politicians.

    I don't blaim bureaucracy for all the ills we have... they are still get trained to maintain the current situation them improve it.. now how can you expect miracles from a person who don't know how to do them... but still there are several who are coming forward and doing what it right. India is ran by bureaucracy and whatever growth and achievements we are seeing they are because of them.

    the center is not weak nor incapable and all those bowing to the states or in reality bowing to the state parties are just for remaining in the power in center... in truth Indian governance system is so much center inclined that it can become a single unit of administration from a federal with a blink of eye and that will be constitutional.

    what we don't have is good leaders or leaders who had a vision for nation and let people believe in themselves... most of our leaders want to be in power only and for this all is holy for them.. change the leadership and situation will be optimist rather then pessimist.
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    INDIA IS A SOFT STATE
    WHO IS RESPONSIBLE? THE IAS MAFIA OFCOURSE
    Please download attachment
    (Not all officers of the IAS belong to the IAS mafia. There are good people too amongst the IAS; but, they are more of an exception. The notable exceptions are: Mr V sundaram, IAS, Mr Omesh Saigal, IAS, Mr MG Devasahayam, IAS, Mr DK Manavalan, IAS, Mr Manish Gupta, IAS, Mr A Ramaswamy, IAS, Mr BS Baswan, IAS, Dr A Ravindra, IAS, and a few more.)

    By Col SS Rajan, a Military Veteran

    Genesis of India’s Problems

    1. The British created a privileged class of bureaucrats and called them the Indian Civil Service (ICS) who dutifully toed the British line in governing undivided India with an iron hand. Their loyalty was not to India but to the British Crown. After Independence, the ICS mutated into a more virulent breed called the IAS. Its loyalty is not to Bharat but to itself. Its credo is: I, Me, Myself. Greed, selfishness, indulging in unethical & corrupt practices and betrayal of the Nation are its hallmarks. IAS today is a mafia and a law unto itself. Bharat today is in the stranglehold of the IAS mafia. From Kashmir in the North to Kanyakumari in the South, from Nagaland & Manipur in the East to Punjab & Rajasthan in the West, it is the IAS Mafia which rules the Country.

    Corruption & Venality

    2. There is unfortunately a mistaken belief that it is the politicians of this country who are corrupt & venal and responsible for all the ills the nation is facing. I am afraid no. It is the IAS Mafia that is responsible. The politicians of this country are mere pawns in the hands of the IAS. If we say, politicians as a breed are corrupt, we must ask: who taught the politicians to be corrupt or indulge in mal-practices & corruption? Without doubt, it is the IAS. They are a wily class. Has anyone belonging to the IAS ever been caught & punished for being corrupt or for amassing wealth beyond his or her known sources of income? NO, except for a stray case or two. The members of the IAS are highly intelligent & motivated in the art of self-preservation; they are experts in covering their tracks (read covering their backs).

    Emasculating & Destroying the Integrity of the Police and other Central Services

    3. Today, the IAS rules supreme; and all other Central Services, whether the IFS, the IPS, the IRS, etc. are considered inferior. The fallout is, Officers of other services must play second fiddle & pay obeisance to the IAS. When a young man joins the IPS and is posted as Superintendent Police of a District, he is full of patriotic fervor and vows to rid the district of thugs & hoodlums. But soon, he is disillusioned; and if he does not toe the line of the District Collector (an IAS) & his political bosses, he is soon consigned to the wilderness. Result? He quickly learns how to “blow with the wind”. A terminology coined recently!! Please do not ask me who coined it?

    Institutionalising Corruption

    4. Take any scam, whether it is the 2G or CWG or Coalgate or Railgate; and there is no dearth of them. In all these scams, no politician can dare make money without the expert advice, active support and connivance of the IAS. If Shri Madhu Koda siphoned off Rs. 4,000, how did he do it? Do I need to elaborate? And what about scams before? Whether it was the Bofors, the HDW and others, who siphoned off the money, how and on whose advice and with whose help? Do I need to elaborate? If, today, billions & billions of Rupees are stashed away in Swiss Banks and in banks in numerous other countries that are tax havens, we tend to name the politicians as the culprits. But why not the IAS? Surely, the politicians could not have done it on their own. Do I have to still elaborate as to who helped them and connived with them to deprive this country of its wealth?

    Emasculating & Destroying the Institutional Integrity of Constitutional Bodies, viz. the Central Election Commission (CEC), the Central Vigilance Commission (CVC), Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) and other key national institutions like the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)

    5. The Constitutional Bodies, like the CEC, the CVC, the CAG and other important national institutions like the CBI have critical roles to perform in order to ensure good governance and to safeguard democracy in this country. Yet, the institutional integrity of these vital organisations have not only been eroded but has been ruthlessly emasculated & destroyed by the IAS. This was done by having pliable individuals nominated to head these constitutional bodies and other pivotal organizations. The primary victim is good governance. The recent case of the CBI Director confessing to the Hon’ble Supreme Court that he had shared the Draft Report on the Coal Scam with the PMO, the Law Minister and the Ministry of Coals & Mines, is a case in point.

    Emasculating & Destroying the Institutional Integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force

    6. Right from day one of Independence, ie. 15 Aug 1947, the ICS and its successor service, the IAS, had laid down for itself, as one of its Key Result Areas (KRAs), the downgrading and emasculation of the institutional integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force. They accomplished their agenda with aplomb and remarkable dexterity, with the active support of the politicians. Don’t our Prime Minister and other Ministers hold the Defence Services in high regard? Undoubtedly, they do. But when the IAS constantly dins into their ears that they must not trust the Army and when they regularly conjure up the spectre of an ‘Army Takeover’, (which undoubtedly has been happening with predictable regularity in India’s neighbourhood), the politicians with their uncanny instincts of self preservation, fall prey to the machinations of the IAS. They become a willing tool in the hands of the latter and join hands with them to destroy the institutional integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force. As late as April 2012, the IAS with the help, assistance & connivance of an unscrupulous scribe with a fertile (read “perverted”) imagination (who was perhaps hoping to be rewarded with a seat in the Rajya Sabha) said that Gen VK Singh, the then COAS, had planned a military coup by moving certain active units to Delhi. This piece of hallucination made headlines in a leading national Daily on 4 April 2012. All this was done to defame Gen. VK Singh and to show the Army in poor light. Such is the venality of the IAS. Please click on the following link and read

    ALLEGED COUP ATTEMPT BY INDIAN ARMY ON 16/17 JANUARY ? | Sulekha Creative

    7. There is an old saying: ‘Nobody can bully you and make you feel inferior; unless you too feel so, and are not willing to stand up to the Bully’. Unfortunately, successive Army Chiefs with their misplaced sense of “Civilian Control over the Military in a Democracy” have been kowtowing to the IAS. Civilian control over the military in a democracy means control exercised by the ‘Elected Representatives of the People’ and NOT by the civil service. If only, successive Army Chiefs had stood up to the IAS mafia’s machinations and rendered frank & forthright advice to their political masters, India ie. Bharat would not have come to such a pass, as we find ourselves in today.

    The Culpability of the IAS Mafia and the price the Nation is paying today

    8. 1947-48 Kashmir Operations. 1st SIKH (First Battalion of the Sikh Infantry Regiment) landed at Badgam Airfield Srinagar on 27 October 1947; and soon the Indian Army had the Pakistani forces on the run. By Jan 1948, the Indian Army was in a commanding position in Kashmir and it was only a matter of time that the whole of Kashmir would have been liberated from Pakistani forces. Alas, it was not to be. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, the then Prime Minister of India, inspite of sane, mature & professional advice of Gen (later Field Marshal) KM Cariappa not to halt the Military Operations at that stage, went in for a ceasefire and took the Kashmir dispute to the UN. Who advised Nehru to do so? No doubt, the ICS coterie surrounding Nehru. And, that was the start point of the Kashmir problem, complicated & compounded by each successive Prime Minister. Please click on the following link to read about the 1947-48 Kashmir Operations.

    http://www.claws.in/SW/SW i-10.10.2012.150-178.pdf

    9. 1962 War. The humiliating defeat our country suffered at the hands of the Chinese in 1962 would NOT have taken place, had the political leadership, viz. the then Hon’ble Prime Minister and the Defence Minister paid heed to Gen PN Thapar’s entreaties for speedy provision of requisite arms, ammunition & equipment to the Indian Army, considering the inadequacies in our Defence preparedness vis-à-vis the Chinese, in NEFA (present Arunachal Pradesh) and in Ladhak. Gen PN Thapar was then the COAS. Earlier to that, in 1950, Sardar Vallabhai Patel, then Home Minister, in his letter to Nehru dated 7 Nov 1950, warned him that CHINA is our ‘potential enemy’. Yet, no action was taken by Nehru. Why? It was on account of the utter disdain shown by the coterie of ICS / IAS surrounding Nehru that no heed was paid to either Sardar Vallabhai’s letter or to Gen PN Thapar’s entreaties. That was not the first time the IAS betrayed the nation; it has happened time & again and continues even today. Please click on the following two links to read Sardar Vallabhai’s letter dt. 7 Nov 1950 addressed to Nehru.

    VIGIL Online - Sardar Patel's Letter to Nehru on China dated 07 November,1950

    Sardar Patel's Letter to Jawaharlal Nehru (7 November 1950) | Friends of Tibet (INDIA)

    10. 1965 War. Hajipir Pass on the road linking Uri with Poonch was captured in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The capture of Hajipir Pass would go down in Indian history as a brilliant piece of military action, an audacious move exemplifying raw courage & sacrifice by the troops of the 1st Parachute Battalion of the Parachute Regiment. Major Ranjit Singh Dayal, the Hero of the Battle of Hajipir Pass was awarded Maha Vir Chakra (MVC) for displaying exceptional bravery & courage. Click on the following link to read about the Battle of Hajipir Pass.

    http://www.-----------/forums/military-history/95263-battle-hajipir-pass-1965-a.html

    11. Haji Pir Pass was and is of strategic importance; as it dominates the entire area around, especially the Indian side of the border in the area of Uri-Poonch bulge. Yet, Haji Pir pass was most unfortunately handed back to Pakistan as per the Agreement signed at the end of Tashkent Talks in Jan 1966 by Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister Of India; on the advice of the IAS mafia entrenched in the PMO. Gen JN Chaudhury, the then COAS, stoutly opposed the handing over of Haji Pir Pass back to Pakistan; and advised Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri as such. Yet, Haji Pir Pass was handed back to Pakistan? Why? Because, it is the IAS which rules the roost in the PMO.

    12. 1971 War. The war with Pakistan in Dec 1971 would go down in the annals of Indian history as a brilliant campaign executed with precision. Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw was indeed a charismatic General and a great strategist. Lt Gen Jagjit Singh Aurora, the Eastern Army Commander, was an audacious General, rightly called the Liberator of Bangladesh. The war resulted in the dismemberment of Pakistan and the birth of Bangladesh. The humiliating defeat of Pakistan saw 94,000 soldiers of the Pakistan Army surrendering in the East; these PoW were later held in various PoW camps across India.. At the end of it, what did we really achieve? Did we set ourselves any strategic goals before the War and after the War? Having inflicted a humiliating defeat and won the War at great cost to human lives (thousands of soldiers killed & wounded in battle), the question that begs an answer is: what did our country gain or achieve? The answer, unfortunately is: A BIG ZERO. It is sad that, whatever advantages or gains were achieved on the battlefield by our soldiers, by spilling their blood and sacrificing their lives, have invariably been negated or surrendered by our politicians, across the negotiating table, aided & abetted by the self-serving IAS.

    13. The Shimla Agreement between India and Pakistan in July 1972 enabled the repatriation of 94,000 Pakistani PoW to Pakistan. It was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Pakistan who outsmarted India and walked away with everything at the end of the Shimla talks. What a shame! Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, the then COAS, very much advised Indira Gandhi, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister, ‘India MUST insist on the vacation of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) by Pakistan, as a precondition, for the repatriation of 94000 Pakistan PoW’. This was because the back of the Pakistan Army had been broken and its morale lay shattered, Yet, thanks to the disgraceful coterie of IAS advising Indira Gandhi at the Shimla Talks in July 1972, India got nothing and frittered away all the gains of the 1971 War.

    14. OP Blue Star. OP Blue Star would go down in the history of India as one of its dark chapters. After the killing of Shri Atwal, the DIG of Punjab Police, on 25 April 1983, by militants in Darshni Deori within the precincts of the Golden Temple, Amritsar, Shri PC Sethi, the then Union Home Minister, announced that the police would soon apprehend the killers of DIG Atwal. But within 24 hours, he, on the directions of Indira Gandhi, retracted his statement and said that the police would not enter the precincts of the Golden Temple. That was a ruse to ensnare Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale in the Golden Temple. As expected, an encouraged & emboldened Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale walked into the Golden Temple and occupied the Akaal Takht along with his band of outlaws. Then started the open smuggling of arms & ammunition into the Golden Temple and its conversion into an armed fortress. Indira Gandhi and the IAS cabal surrounding her orchestrated OP BLUE STAR which was unfortunately executed by the Indian Army on 5 June 1984. At what cost? It was a matter of shame that Sikhs, the bulwark of the nation were alienated overnight. In the aftermath of OP BLUE STAR, Sikh troops deserted their units after looting the armouries and set off by road in Army vehicles, from as far away as Tripura, Ramgarh & Trivandrum. It caused mayhem in the Army.

    15. Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) Operations in Sri Lanka. In 1987 Shri Rajeev Gandhi, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister of India, ill-advised by the IAS, needlessly & thoughtlessly sent a large contingent of the Indian Army as a Peace Keeping Force to Sri Lanka. Rajeev Gandhi did so, inspite of being warned by Gen K Sundarji, the then COAS, about the serious ramifications of such a move. But who bothers to listen to the Chief of Army Staff when the IAS is around? Result? The IPKF soon got embroiled in the internal fight between Sri Lankan Forces and the LTTE; and, got into a firefight with the LTTE. The outcome: in an unknown territory, with no intelligence inputs, IPKF was mauled & bruised, with hundreds of soldiers killed & maimed. At the end of the IPKF Operations, India had nothing to show, but a big ZERO.

    16. Chinese intrusion into Ladhak in April 2013. Towards the end of April 2013, the Govt. of India acknowledged that troops of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China had intruded 19 kilometres inside our territory in Ladhak and set up a camp in the area of Daulat Beg Oldi. The nation is aghast; but the Govt of India run by the IAS is nonchalant and says that the intrusion is on account of differing perceptions between the two countries about the location of the International Boundary. Great! An agitated nation is asking: what is the Army doing? How on earth did the Indian Army allow the Chinese to intrude into our territory? The Indian Commanders, ie. the Army Chief, the Northern Army Commander, the Corps Commander, the Divisional Commander and Commanders down the line in Ladhak are embarrassed, red-faced and fuming with rage. Rage? Why? The sector of International Border between India and China in the area of Daulat Beg Oldi where the Chinese have intruded is under the operational control of Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and the Army has no control over it. The ITBP is a police Force, as the name suggests and comes under the Ministry of Home Affairs; and hence, does not report to the Army. Sad state of affairs. Who is to be held responsible? Undoubtedly, the IAS, with its penchant for creating confusion and muddying waters, without an iota of concern for national security. Please click on the following link to know more.

    China: LAC impasse and Army-ITBP spat » Indian Defence Review

    Who is best suited to be the National Security Advisor?

    17. National Security is a matter of serious concern and is treated as such by countries all over the globe, but not so in India. In India, the National Security Advisor to the PM or to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is an IAS or IFS or IPS Officer. Strangely, a General of the Army or an Air Chief Marshal of the Air Force or an Admiral of the Navy is never appointed as the National Security Advisor. That should tell every citizen why the security of this country is so badly neglected.

    Do IAS officers retire on completion of 60 years of age?

    18. It is indeed a strange question. The answer is both ‘Yes’ and ‘No’. Officially, IAS officers retire on completion of 60 years of age. But that is only on paper. In actual fact, IAS officers carry on & on beyond the age of 60. Well before they reach 60 years, they manage to rehabilitate themselves in various appointments, as Chairman or Commissioner or Officer on Special Duty in some Govt Dept or the other; and if no such position exists, they create one! Check who are the Chief Information Commissioners in various States. After retirement, the IAS manage to slot themselves in one post after another, slowly graduating from Chairman / Commissioners to Advisors (including National Security Advisor) and then go on to become Governors and Ambassadors. Mind you, age is no criteria for holding these appointments or posts. What matters is good networking! In case you are looking for good case studies: study Brajesh Mishra and Shri MK Narayanan, the present Governor of West Bengal.

    Partition of India in 1947: Who drew the Boundary line? Who is responsible for the loss of Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT)?

    19. On 15 July 1947, the Indian Independence Act 1947 of the Parliament of United Kingdom stipulated that British rule in India would come to an end just one month later, on 15 August 1947. The Act also stipulated the partition of the Provinces of British India into two new sovereign dominions: the Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. Sir Cyril Radcliffe was appointed as the Chairman of the Boundary Commission in July 1947 with the onerous responsibility of demarcating the boundary between the two nations, India and Pakistan, slated to come in to being on 15 Aug 1947. As per the provisions of the Indian Independence Act 1947, agreed to by the representatives of the future countries of India and Pakistan, only the ruler of a Princely State had the privilege of deciding whether to join India or Pakistan. In other areas, the boundary was to be demarcated depending on the majority of population based on religious denomination. And going by the provisions of the Indian Independence Act 1947, Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) which had 97% Buddhists (Chakmas) should have automatically been part of India. Unfortunately, Sir Cyril Radcliffe, the Chairman of the Boundary Commission made a grievous mistake and the entire area went to East Pakistan when the Boundary Commission announced its award on 17 Aug 1947. Who let down the Chakmas? No prizes for guessing. The culprits were the ICS, who were then busy grabbing power, pelf & everything for themselves. There was not even a whimper against the award of CHT to East Pakistan. Please click on the following link to read more.

    Radcliffe Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dividing India into many more States: Who gains?

    20. Over the past sixty six years since independence, India has been divided into numerous States, with more in the offing. There is talk of carving Vidharbha out of Maharashtra; carving Telengana, Raayalseema and Coastal Andhra from Andhra; carving Paschim Pradesh, Awadh Pradesh, Poorvanchal Pradesh and Bundelkhand out of Uttar Pradesh. Who stands to gain by creation of more States? Answer: naturally the IAS. With the creation of six more States there would be six more Chief Secretaries, a host of Principal Secretaries and scores of Additional Secretaries, Joint Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries, etc. In other words the IAS would enjoy more power, more pelf and more opportunities to loot the Country. One must give the Devil its due. The IAS mafia knows how to get things done through the politicians.

    Career preference of children of IAS Officers

    21. People often ask me:
    Q1. Are there any Officers in the Army, Navy & Air Force who are children of IAS Officers.
    A1. To the best of my knowledge, there are none.
    Q2. Why is it that children of IAS officers do not join the Army, Navy & Air Force?
    A2. Lack of pride in themselves and in the Nation. The IAS mafia knows that there is nothing to gain by sending their children to the Army, Navy & Air Force. They feel that a career in the Army, Navy & Air Force is meant only for lesser mortals. The word “patriotism” is anathema to the IAS.

    Where do we go from here?

    22. The Question is where do we go from here, as a nation?
    23. Answer: Nowhere, except downhill. As long as we have a bunch of imbecile & corrupt politicians ruling this country, ably aided & abetted by the IAS mafia, what else can we expect?

    The way out: Convene a Constituent Assembly

    24. The future of this Country lies in its Youth. It is the Youth which has to lead this Country out of its present morass. There is a need for CHANGE. There is an urgent & inescapable requirement to convene a Constituent Assembly to revisit our Constitution in the light of our experience of over six decades; and to amend or modify electoral laws or process to usher in Democracy, in its true sense, in consonance with Abraham Lincoln’s saying, ‘Government of the people, by the people, for the people’.



    Col SS Rajan was commissioned in the Corps of Engineers of the Indian Army on 30 June 1963 and retired on 31 Oct 1996. As Major, he commanded an Engineer Construction Company during the 1971 war in the Boyra- Jessore – Khulna sector in Bangladesh.
     
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  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    INDIA IS A SOFT STATE
    WHO IS RESPONSIBLE? THE IAS MAFIA OFCOURSE
    Please download attachment
    (Not all officers of the IAS belong to the IAS mafia. There are good people too amongst the IAS; but, they are more of an exception. The notable exceptions are: Mr V sundaram, IAS, Mr Omesh Saigal, IAS, Mr MG Devasahayam, IAS, Mr DK Manavalan, IAS, Mr Manish Gupta, IAS, Mr A Ramaswamy, IAS, Mr BS Baswan, IAS, Dr A Ravindra, IAS, and a few more.)

    By Col SS Rajan, a Military Veteran

    Genesis of India’s Problems

    1. The British created a privileged class of bureaucrats and called them the Indian Civil Service (ICS) who dutifully toed the British line in governing undivided India with an iron hand. Their loyalty was not to India but to the British Crown. After Independence, the ICS mutated into a more virulent breed called the IAS. Its loyalty is not to Bharat but to itself. Its credo is: I, Me, Myself. Greed, selfishness, indulging in unethical & corrupt practices and betrayal of the Nation are its hallmarks. IAS today is a mafia and a law unto itself. Bharat today is in the stranglehold of the IAS mafia. From Kashmir in the North to Kanyakumari in the South, from Nagaland & Manipur in the East to Punjab & Rajasthan in the West, it is the IAS Mafia which rules the Country.

    Corruption & Venality

    2. There is unfortunately a mistaken belief that it is the politicians of this country who are corrupt & venal and responsible for all the ills the nation is facing. I am afraid no. It is the IAS Mafia that is responsible. The politicians of this country are mere pawns in the hands of the IAS. If we say, politicians as a breed are corrupt, we must ask: who taught the politicians to be corrupt or indulge in mal-practices & corruption? Without doubt, it is the IAS. They are a wily class. Has anyone belonging to the IAS ever been caught & punished for being corrupt or for amassing wealth beyond his or her known sources of income? NO, except for a stray case or two. The members of the IAS are highly intelligent & motivated in the art of self-preservation; they are experts in covering their tracks (read covering their backs).

    Emasculating & Destroying the Integrity of the Police and other Central Services

    3. Today, the IAS rules supreme; and all other Central Services, whether the IFS, the IPS, the IRS, etc. are considered inferior. The fallout is, Officers of other services must play second fiddle & pay obeisance to the IAS. When a young man joins the IPS and is posted as Superintendent Police of a District, he is full of patriotic fervor and vows to rid the district of thugs & hoodlums. But soon, he is disillusioned; and if he does not toe the line of the District Collector (an IAS) & his political bosses, he is soon consigned to the wilderness. Result? He quickly learns how to “blow with the wind”. A terminology coined recently!! Please do not ask me who coined it?

    Institutionalising Corruption

    4. Take any scam, whether it is the 2G or CWG or Coalgate or Railgate; and there is no dearth of them. In all these scams, no politician can dare make money without the expert advice, active support and connivance of the IAS. If Shri Madhu Koda siphoned off Rs. 4,000, how did he do it? Do I need to elaborate? And what about scams before? Whether it was the Bofors, the HDW and others, who siphoned off the money, how and on whose advice and with whose help? Do I need to elaborate? If, today, billions & billions of Rupees are stashed away in Swiss Banks and in banks in numerous other countries that are tax havens, we tend to name the politicians as the culprits. But why not the IAS? Surely, the politicians could not have done it on their own. Do I have to still elaborate as to who helped them and connived with them to deprive this country of its wealth?

    Emasculating & Destroying the Institutional Integrity of Constitutional Bodies, viz. the Central Election Commission (CEC), the Central Vigilance Commission (CVC), Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) and other key national institutions like the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)

    5. The Constitutional Bodies, like the CEC, the CVC, the CAG and other important national institutions like the CBI have critical roles to perform in order to ensure good governance and to safeguard democracy in this country. Yet, the institutional integrity of these vital organisations have not only been eroded but has been ruthlessly emasculated & destroyed by the IAS. This was done by having pliable individuals nominated to head these constitutional bodies and other pivotal organizations. The primary victim is good governance. The recent case of the CBI Director confessing to the Hon’ble Supreme Court that he had shared the Draft Report on the Coal Scam with the PMO, the Law Minister and the Ministry of Coals & Mines, is a case in point.

    Emasculating & Destroying the Institutional Integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force

    6. Right from day one of Independence, ie. 15 Aug 1947, the ICS and its successor service, the IAS, had laid down for itself, as one of its Key Result Areas (KRAs), the downgrading and emasculation of the institutional integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force. They accomplished their agenda with aplomb and remarkable dexterity, with the active support of the politicians. Don’t our Prime Minister and other Ministers hold the Defence Services in high regard? Undoubtedly, they do. But when the IAS constantly dins into their ears that they must not trust the Army and when they regularly conjure up the spectre of an ‘Army Takeover’, (which undoubtedly has been happening with predictable regularity in India’s neighbourhood), the politicians with their uncanny instincts of self preservation, fall prey to the machinations of the IAS. They become a willing tool in the hands of the latter and join hands with them to destroy the institutional integrity of the Army, Navy & Air Force. As late as April 2012, the IAS with the help, assistance & connivance of an unscrupulous scribe with a fertile (read “perverted”) imagination (who was perhaps hoping to be rewarded with a seat in the Rajya Sabha) said that Gen VK Singh, the then COAS, had planned a military coup by moving certain active units to Delhi. This piece of hallucination made headlines in a leading national Daily on 4 April 2012. All this was done to defame Gen. VK Singh and to show the Army in poor light. Such is the venality of the IAS. Please click on the following link and read

    ALLEGED COUP ATTEMPT BY INDIAN ARMY ON 16/17 JANUARY ? | Sulekha Creative

    7. There is an old saying: ‘Nobody can bully you and make you feel inferior; unless you too feel so, and are not willing to stand up to the Bully’. Unfortunately, successive Army Chiefs with their misplaced sense of “Civilian Control over the Military in a Democracy” have been kowtowing to the IAS. Civilian control over the military in a democracy means control exercised by the ‘Elected Representatives of the People’ and NOT by the civil service. If only, successive Army Chiefs had stood up to the IAS mafia’s machinations and rendered frank & forthright advice to their political masters, India ie. Bharat would not have come to such a pass, as we find ourselves in today.

    The Culpability of the IAS Mafia and the price the Nation is paying today

    8. 1947-48 Kashmir Operations. 1st SIKH (First Battalion of the Sikh Infantry Regiment) landed at Badgam Airfield Srinagar on 27 October 1947; and soon the Indian Army had the Pakistani forces on the run. By Jan 1948, the Indian Army was in a commanding position in Kashmir and it was only a matter of time that the whole of Kashmir would have been liberated from Pakistani forces. Alas, it was not to be. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, the then Prime Minister of India, inspite of sane, mature & professional advice of Gen (later Field Marshal) KM Cariappa not to halt the Military Operations at that stage, went in for a ceasefire and took the Kashmir dispute to the UN. Who advised Nehru to do so? No doubt, the ICS coterie surrounding Nehru. And, that was the start point of the Kashmir problem, complicated & compounded by each successive Prime Minister. Please click on the following link to read about the 1947-48 Kashmir Operations.

    http://www.claws.in/SW/SW i-10.10.2012.150-178.pdf

    9. 1962 War. The humiliating defeat our country suffered at the hands of the Chinese in 1962 would NOT have taken place, had the political leadership, viz. the then Hon’ble Prime Minister and the Defence Minister paid heed to Gen PN Thapar’s entreaties for speedy provision of requisite arms, ammunition & equipment to the Indian Army, considering the inadequacies in our Defence preparedness vis-à-vis the Chinese, in NEFA (present Arunachal Pradesh) and in Ladhak. Gen PN Thapar was then the COAS. Earlier to that, in 1950, Sardar Vallabhai Patel, then Home Minister, in his letter to Nehru dated 7 Nov 1950, warned him that CHINA is our ‘potential enemy’. Yet, no action was taken by Nehru. Why? It was on account of the utter disdain shown by the coterie of ICS / IAS surrounding Nehru that no heed was paid to either Sardar Vallabhai’s letter or to Gen PN Thapar’s entreaties. That was not the first time the IAS betrayed the nation; it has happened time & again and continues even today. Please click on the following two links to read Sardar Vallabhai’s letter dt. 7 Nov 1950 addressed to Nehru.

    VIGIL Online - Sardar Patel's Letter to Nehru on China dated 07 November,1950

    Sardar Patel's Letter to Jawaharlal Nehru (7 November 1950) | Friends of Tibet (INDIA)

    10. 1965 War. Hajipir Pass on the road linking Uri with Poonch was captured in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The capture of Hajipir Pass would go down in Indian history as a brilliant piece of military action, an audacious move exemplifying raw courage & sacrifice by the troops of the 1st Parachute Battalion of the Parachute Regiment. Major Ranjit Singh Dayal, the Hero of the Battle of Hajipir Pass was awarded Maha Vir Chakra (MVC) for displaying exceptional bravery & courage. Click on the following link to read about the Battle of Hajipir Pass.

    http://www.-----------/forums/military-history/95263-battle-hajipir-pass-1965-a.html

    11. Haji Pir Pass was and is of strategic importance; as it dominates the entire area around, especially the Indian side of the border in the area of Uri-Poonch bulge. Yet, Haji Pir pass was most unfortunately handed back to Pakistan as per the Agreement signed at the end of Tashkent Talks in Jan 1966 by Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister Of India; on the advice of the IAS mafia entrenched in the PMO. Gen JN Chaudhury, the then COAS, stoutly opposed the handing over of Haji Pir Pass back to Pakistan; and advised Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri as such. Yet, Haji Pir Pass was handed back to Pakistan? Why? Because, it is the IAS which rules the roost in the PMO.

    12. 1971 War. The war with Pakistan in Dec 1971 would go down in the annals of Indian history as a brilliant campaign executed with precision. Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw was indeed a charismatic General and a great strategist. Lt Gen Jagjit Singh Aurora, the Eastern Army Commander, was an audacious General, rightly called the Liberator of Bangladesh. The war resulted in the dismemberment of Pakistan and the birth of Bangladesh. The humiliating defeat of Pakistan saw 94,000 soldiers of the Pakistan Army surrendering in the East; these PoW were later held in various PoW camps across India.. At the end of it, what did we really achieve? Did we set ourselves any strategic goals before the War and after the War? Having inflicted a humiliating defeat and won the War at great cost to human lives (thousands of soldiers killed & wounded in battle), the question that begs an answer is: what did our country gain or achieve? The answer, unfortunately is: A BIG ZERO. It is sad that, whatever advantages or gains were achieved on the battlefield by our soldiers, by spilling their blood and sacrificing their lives, have invariably been negated or surrendered by our politicians, across the negotiating table, aided & abetted by the self-serving IAS.

    13. The Shimla Agreement between India and Pakistan in July 1972 enabled the repatriation of 94,000 Pakistani PoW to Pakistan. It was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Pakistan who outsmarted India and walked away with everything at the end of the Shimla talks. What a shame! Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, the then COAS, very much advised Indira Gandhi, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister, ‘India MUST insist on the vacation of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) by Pakistan, as a precondition, for the repatriation of 94000 Pakistan PoW’. This was because the back of the Pakistan Army had been broken and its morale lay shattered, Yet, thanks to the disgraceful coterie of IAS advising Indira Gandhi at the Shimla Talks in July 1972, India got nothing and frittered away all the gains of the 1971 War.

    14. OP Blue Star. OP Blue Star would go down in the history of India as one of its dark chapters. After the killing of Shri Atwal, the DIG of Punjab Police, on 25 April 1983, by militants in Darshni Deori within the precincts of the Golden Temple, Amritsar, Shri PC Sethi, the then Union Home Minister, announced that the police would soon apprehend the killers of DIG Atwal. But within 24 hours, he, on the directions of Indira Gandhi, retracted his statement and said that the police would not enter the precincts of the Golden Temple. That was a ruse to ensnare Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale in the Golden Temple. As expected, an encouraged & emboldened Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale walked into the Golden Temple and occupied the Akaal Takht along with his band of outlaws. Then started the open smuggling of arms & ammunition into the Golden Temple and its conversion into an armed fortress. Indira Gandhi and the IAS cabal surrounding her orchestrated OP BLUE STAR which was unfortunately executed by the Indian Army on 5 June 1984. At what cost? It was a matter of shame that Sikhs, the bulwark of the nation were alienated overnight. In the aftermath of OP BLUE STAR, Sikh troops deserted their units after looting the armouries and set off by road in Army vehicles, from as far away as Tripura, Ramgarh & Trivandrum. It caused mayhem in the Army.

    15. Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) Operations in Sri Lanka. In 1987 Shri Rajeev Gandhi, the then Hon’ble Prime Minister of India, ill-advised by the IAS, needlessly & thoughtlessly sent a large contingent of the Indian Army as a Peace Keeping Force to Sri Lanka. Rajeev Gandhi did so, inspite of being warned by Gen K Sundarji, the then COAS, about the serious ramifications of such a move. But who bothers to listen to the Chief of Army Staff when the IAS is around? Result? The IPKF soon got embroiled in the internal fight between Sri Lankan Forces and the LTTE; and, got into a firefight with the LTTE. The outcome: in an unknown territory, with no intelligence inputs, IPKF was mauled & bruised, with hundreds of soldiers killed & maimed. At the end of the IPKF Operations, India had nothing to show, but a big ZERO.

    16. Chinese intrusion into Ladhak in April 2013. Towards the end of April 2013, the Govt. of India acknowledged that troops of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China had intruded 19 kilometres inside our territory in Ladhak and set up a camp in the area of Daulat Beg Oldi. The nation is aghast; but the Govt of India run by the IAS is nonchalant and says that the intrusion is on account of differing perceptions between the two countries about the location of the International Boundary. Great! An agitated nation is asking: what is the Army doing? How on earth did the Indian Army allow the Chinese to intrude into our territory? The Indian Commanders, ie. the Army Chief, the Northern Army Commander, the Corps Commander, the Divisional Commander and Commanders down the line in Ladhak are embarrassed, red-faced and fuming with rage. Rage? Why? The sector of International Border between India and China in the area of Daulat Beg Oldi where the Chinese have intruded is under the operational control of Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and the Army has no control over it. The ITBP is a police Force, as the name suggests and comes under the Ministry of Home Affairs; and hence, does not report to the Army. Sad state of affairs. Who is to be held responsible? Undoubtedly, the IAS, with its penchant for creating confusion and muddying waters, without an iota of concern for national security. Please click on the following link to know more.

    China: LAC impasse and Army-ITBP spat » Indian Defence Review

    Who is best suited to be the National Security Advisor?

    17. National Security is a matter of serious concern and is treated as such by countries all over the globe, but not so in India. In India, the National Security Advisor to the PM or to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is an IAS or IFS or IPS Officer. Strangely, a General of the Army or an Air Chief Marshal of the Air Force or an Admiral of the Navy is never appointed as the National Security Advisor. That should tell every citizen why the security of this country is so badly neglected.

    Do IAS officers retire on completion of 60 years of age?

    18. It is indeed a strange question. The answer is both ‘Yes’ and ‘No’. Officially, IAS officers retire on completion of 60 years of age. But that is only on paper. In actual fact, IAS officers carry on & on beyond the age of 60. Well before they reach 60 years, they manage to rehabilitate themselves in various appointments, as Chairman or Commissioner or Officer on Special Duty in some Govt Dept or the other; and if no such position exists, they create one! Check who are the Chief Information Commissioners in various States. After retirement, the IAS manage to slot themselves in one post after another, slowly graduating from Chairman / Commissioners to Advisors (including National Security Advisor) and then go on to become Governors and Ambassadors. Mind you, age is no criteria for holding these appointments or posts. What matters is good networking! In case you are looking for good case studies: study Brajesh Mishra and Shri MK Narayanan, the present Governor of West Bengal.

    Partition of India in 1947: Who drew the Boundary line? Who is responsible for the loss of Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT)?

    19. On 15 July 1947, the Indian Independence Act 1947 of the Parliament of United Kingdom stipulated that British rule in India would come to an end just one month later, on 15 August 1947. The Act also stipulated the partition of the Provinces of British India into two new sovereign dominions: the Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. Sir Cyril Radcliffe was appointed as the Chairman of the Boundary Commission in July 1947 with the onerous responsibility of demarcating the boundary between the two nations, India and Pakistan, slated to come in to being on 15 Aug 1947. As per the provisions of the Indian Independence Act 1947, agreed to by the representatives of the future countries of India and Pakistan, only the ruler of a Princely State had the privilege of deciding whether to join India or Pakistan. In other areas, the boundary was to be demarcated depending on the majority of population based on religious denomination. And going by the provisions of the Indian Independence Act 1947, Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) which had 97% Buddhists (Chakmas) should have automatically been part of India. Unfortunately, Sir Cyril Radcliffe, the Chairman of the Boundary Commission made a grievous mistake and the entire area went to East Pakistan when the Boundary Commission announced its award on 17 Aug 1947. Who let down the Chakmas? No prizes for guessing. The culprits were the ICS, who were then busy grabbing power, pelf & everything for themselves. There was not even a whimper against the award of CHT to East Pakistan. Please click on the following link to read more.

    Radcliffe Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dividing India into many more States: Who gains?

    20. Over the past sixty six years since independence, India has been divided into numerous States, with more in the offing. There is talk of carving Vidharbha out of Maharashtra; carving Telengana, Raayalseema and Coastal Andhra from Andhra; carving Paschim Pradesh, Awadh Pradesh, Poorvanchal Pradesh and Bundelkhand out of Uttar Pradesh. Who stands to gain by creation of more States? Answer: naturally the IAS. With the creation of six more States there would be six more Chief Secretaries, a host of Principal Secretaries and scores of Additional Secretaries, Joint Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries, etc. In other words the IAS would enjoy more power, more pelf and more opportunities to loot the Country. One must give the Devil its due. The IAS mafia knows how to get things done through the politicians.

    Career preference of children of IAS Officers

    21. People often ask me:
    Q1. Are there any Officers in the Army, Navy & Air Force who are children of IAS Officers.
    A1. To the best of my knowledge, there are none.
    Q2. Why is it that children of IAS officers do not join the Army, Navy & Air Force?
    A2. Lack of pride in themselves and in the Nation. The IAS mafia knows that there is nothing to gain by sending their children to the Army, Navy & Air Force. They feel that a career in the Army, Navy & Air Force is meant only for lesser mortals. The word “patriotism” is anathema to the IAS.

    Where do we go from here?

    22. The Question is where do we go from here, as a nation?
    23. Answer: Nowhere, except downhill. As long as we have a bunch of imbecile & corrupt politicians ruling this country, ably aided & abetted by the IAS mafia, what else can we expect?

    The way out: Convene a Constituent Assembly

    24. The future of this Country lies in its Youth. It is the Youth which has to lead this Country out of its present morass. There is a need for CHANGE. There is an urgent & inescapable requirement to convene a Constituent Assembly to revisit our Constitution in the light of our experience of over six decades; and to amend or modify electoral laws or process to usher in Democracy, in its true sense, in consonance with Abraham Lincoln’s saying, ‘Government of the people, by the people, for the people’.



    Col SS Rajan was commissioned in the Corps of Engineers of the Indian Army on 30 June 1963 and retired on 31 Oct 1996. As Major, he commanded an Engineer Construction Company during the 1971 war in the Boyra- Jessore – Khulna sector in Bangladesh.
     
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  7. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    india was a superpower in history so it can be again one day.
     
  8. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    India was never a 'superpower' in history.
     
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  9. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    i meant it in the casual definition of simply being a powerful country.

    sorry for trying to be nice.
     
  10. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    India was never a 'superpower' by that casual definition, either.

    All because you are on an Indian forum does not meant you have to be 'nice' to India or Indians.
     
  11. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Tianshan

    Considering the fact that this is an Indian forum, there's nothing wrong in being 'nice' to India or Indians. It helps; trust me (As you would soon find out, anyway).

    But being true to oneself, should be first priority. There are few places where you cant vent out your true self & still have a meaningful, enriching discussion.

    :thumb: Consider DFI one such forum & make the most of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  12. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    but i thought indian culture also believed that one must treat their hosts and guests nicely?

    or maybe i heard wrong.
     
  13. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Is there any culture which believes that one must treat their hosts and guests badly? This is a universal value, more or less. Anyway, I don't understand the relevance of any of this.
     
  14. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    thanks a lot for replying in such details ........




    Indeed india's political climate is an extension of british divide and rule policy but the current setup is only harming the country and there is a requirement of an immediate change in the system....India cannot grow with this kind of immature political state


    I never said india is a land of no opportunities ,rather i say india is a land of immense opportunities but all that is being thrown away.We have the largest youth population in the world but vast majority of them are unemployed and undereducated making them completely redundant to the country.Leave alone socio economic performance the country the size of india should have been no 1 in Olympics and sports but rather we are behind even sub saharan african countries.This shows how much of talent and opportunities are being wasted because of a very bad form of governance.

    Malnutrition will indeed vanish from india in a decade or two from now but what about the current generation who are suffering from it.Our new born will be the youth of tomorrow and as said before malnourished children will never become a normal healthy adult and would end up becoming a bane for the country.48% rate is a very very bad figure....


    [/QUOTE]

    I was talking of manufacturing....until and unless you target manufacturing you can never dream of removing mass poverty, this is how countries in west became rich in the 18th-19th century and this is how china is developing rapidly...

    There is hardly any job in manufacturing and core engineering sectors in india.Had india opened up industries like china it would have shifted it's huge surplus agricultural population to manufacturing and would have resulted in poverty reduction..

    More than 50% of population is into agriculture which contributes to not more than 18% to our economy.This is a very terrible thing.
     
  15. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    @ CrYsis

    Mate perhaps you are too young in age and havent seen the period from 1990 to 1995

    For us oldies who have seen that period that was the real CRISIS period in India's life
    when India was really in danger of falling apart both economically and socially

    This is NOTHING

    Today our economy is TEN times bigger than as compared to those dark days of 1991
     
  16. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    We should not be comparing india to industrialized countries of the west as the comparison would not be a fair thing....

    I am not saying that india should have become a very rich country with high standards of living 60 years after independence..I was saying is that this country fails to achieve even the most simplest of simple things.

    For example china achieved it's millennium development goals more than 10 years in advance where as india is likely to fail in reaching many of it's goals set in 1990's.
    And if you look at those goals it was not that difficult to achieve but india failed.

    It's that under performance which i am complaining about.
     
  17. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    The " bucket list " of problems India was facing from 1990 onwards were as follows

    1 Unrest in Punjab Kashmir and North East

    2 Political instability at the Centre

    3 Rajiv Gandhi's assasination ; TWO elections in 1989 and 1991

    4 Economic MELTDOWN
    5 Hindu Muslim Tensions both before and after 1992
    6 Riots and Bomb blasts

    7 Also many people DO not remember the tensions with Pakistan ie near war situation
    in 1987 and 1990

    8 Chinese adventurism in 1986

    9 The Biggest problem however in my view is the Caste tensions ie Post Mandal in 1990

    10 US was our ENEMY Soviet Union was dead
    US was looking to screw us up ie Make India SIGN the NPT and get Kashmir out of India

    That is why I have written " Bucket list of problems "
    India was being written off by the world community
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    We will survive!

    There is always a new dawn awaiting us.
     
  19. desicanuk

    desicanuk Regular Member

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    No body can destroy us.It is only our stupidity and willingness to be destroyed that weakens and destroys us.Look at our history.We have jumped into bed with every foreigner
    that eventually enslaved us -from Akbar to Clive - the list is endless.Stop blaming the Americans for all our ills.Now look at how Congress and partners have been governing this country.Political expediency will for ever condemn us to irrelevancy.I for one pin my hopes on Modi to get us out of political and economic morass.
     
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  20. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Regular Member

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    yes our nation underperformed.. we all know that but are only the govt. is responsible for it... when you compare with others you have to compare on each and every parameter.. and when you compare on it what you will find:-

    1. government is bad no doubt.
    2. we the people voted them in( with our free will whatever things they offered we took then and decided to vote for them without concerning for future by our own free will)
    3. we never care for good of all, if I can gain from others loss its not a problem
    4. we try to take advantage of govt. policies for which we are not eligible for example the rich people trying to get scholarship for their children which is there for poor people or recently people who had computer/laptop in home going to get one in UP laptop scheme just to sell it in market and make some easy money people of developed nation don't.
    5. we fcuk the discipline they don't
    6. easy money is always good money for us but not for them.
    7. from train ticket to occupying govt. land we always want to punish others but when get a chance we took it without 2nd thought.

    there are million such reasons why we failed... nations got build by the people of nation not by govt. of nation.. so what will be the reason to compare them on govt and IAS front... we go in both not some aliens so we are responsible for all the problems..


    and then there is another aspect all the developed nation of todays are former colonist who gained a lot of wealth and resources from their old colonies or oppressive govt. of communist as in russia and china or some arab nations who had so much money from oil and very few population to cater.

    my reason to not compare them is we don't have easy choices to kill million for few resources we have real challenges where we live on 2% of total land on earth with its 17 % population and when we started we were hungry, poor and illiterate.. within 65 years we had achieved a lot put any other nation in our condition with all the parameters included with us... and if any of those nations can be even here where we are.. I will be amazed.. I don't compare because the path of development is not same for them and us.. and in truth I am proud of whatever little success we had achieved... the first phase is always the most tough.. all the nations who got freedom with us or after us are poor, hungry, under dictatorship and fighting the civil wars with in them...those are the nation with whom you can compare and all of them are lacking behind us by miles.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
    parijataka likes this.
  21. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

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    I wouldn't worry about these things too much. We have always had these problems. It is just that we are used to having good economic development over the past decade and now that we are seeing a slump, things look out of control. UPA-1 was a much better at governance and everyone was happy with their performance. This is one of the reasons why they came back to power. Now that the performance indicators are weakening they will be out of power. I think its a good sign for our country. More and more people are voting for development and growth. Although it would be for their our caste or community but still they are thinking of growth.
     
    roma likes this.

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