Is India destined to remain poor forever?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by CrYsIs, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    Day before yesterday when the budget was being announced, all the Jhollawalahs and Poverty barons went up in arms in TV and print media and unilaterally declared it as a budget of the crony capitalists.They cannot fathom industrial development and market reforms because it will destroy their poverty exploitation business.

    Why also blame these people,even my family members were upset because service tax increased from 12% to 14% which means you will have to pay 15 rupees on 1000 Rs purchase but while totally ignoring the social security,old age pension and insurance schemes

    As a growing up kid i wondered why has India remained so poor for so long, but later as i traveled extensively i realized India is poor simply because we love being poor.That is the logical explanation behind why just about every country has progressed minus the holy exception of ours.When someone does something good they are booted out as it happened with Narasima Rao and Atal Bihari Vajpayee governments,so i wound't be surprised if the current government would meet a similar drubbing in 2019.

    The state in India that i come from just like most of BIMAROU has nothing,no healthcare,no education,no sanitation,no infrastructure and and basically no 21st century amenities but still then people are against any kind of industrial development, so much so that investments and industrial projects worth 12 billion $ which could have created huge jobs and infrastructure were scrapped destituting teeming millions of graduates and youths.


    India with socio economic and human development index worse than failed states and with an annual revenue lower than that of tiny countries like Switzerland is not just a poor but a dirt poor country.It's shameful and indigestible that our country is not just far behind countries like Brazil and China but also behind the likes of Iraq & Syria.Yet we want to maintain this shameful status quo.

    What we don't realize is that we are not just compromising with our financial stability but with our security too_Our neighbor China is a 10 trillion $ industrial juggernaut with a cash surplus of 4 trillion $ and a revenue of 2.2 trillion $.With that kind of financial strength they can seriously harm us.

    More importantly what people don't realize is that we are dangerously running out of time,we missed one after another brilliant opportunities like that came after the 2nd world war and in the 70's and 80's.We won't be lucky in future as with the advent of technologies like 3D printers dependence on cheap labour force for manufacturing would decline rapidly.If India fails to avail this final opportunity then no force in the world can save our country.

    And what more should give nightmares is the fact that agriculture's share in India's GDP is declining rapidly but not the work force.Today 60% of population is in the industry which contributes to less than 14% to GDP.So if atleast half of these people are not shifted to Industries in the next decade then one should be prepared for a calamity.

    And those Indians in IT sector and crony socialists should realize that after conquering manufacturing China has set it's sight on IT and Services.With the kind of resources and infrastructure they have it's only a matter of time before they beat us in that field too.

    We already have lost the BPO to Philippines,we are facing serious challenge in textile sector from Bangladesh.With Africa,South East Asia and other developing countries massively revamping their infrastructure and rapidly improving their living standards,we run the risk of losing almost everything.If India does not seriously introspect and acts on an urgent basis then in the words of Author and columnist Tavleen Singh "India would stay poor forever".

    What do you have to say ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  3. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. Well it depends on how you define poor. I think India will remain poorer than the US, Canada, Australia, and other high income countries for the next 100 years at least, on a GDP per capita basis but it has a chance to eliminate absolute poverty in the near future if current growth trends continue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  4. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    India on the basis of per capita income in 2050

    [​IMG]

    Still on the lower end....


    Yes India can eliminate extreme poverty provided if it maintains high growth rate for atleast 20 years but what are the chances of that happening ?
     
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  5. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    It can be done in 10 years, more or less, if current growth rate continues. There is no absolute poverty in Thailand, or at least it's on a much smaller scale. Thailand isn't that much better off than India. Egypt doesn't have people starving on the streets. I don't think Indonesia does either or Vietnam. India can easily catch up with some of them in the next 10 years and even surpass them if India grows fast enough. Of course the distribution of income has to be somewhat balanced too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  6. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

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    It depends on planning and getting the priorities right. We have been always one step behind in planning.
     
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  7. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Your criteria is very faulty.....materialistic possessions are the only criteria used in the West as a measure of richness. What about rampant drug addiction, every day gun violence, school shootings , domestic violence, pathological greed , over 55% divorce rates and dysfunctioning families. Police shooting unarmed citizens and mentally ill, fear of falling ill and old age due to lack of savings, lack of trust in govt. and politicians seen as paid whores of special interest groups.... ARE THESE SIGNS OF RICH SOCIETIES ? Defining wealth narrowly and wanting rest of the World to emulate this sick culture is problem.
    More Money with degradation of society in all other ways can not be called "Rich." A harmonious , functional society where people are generally satisfied and happy , feel secured and care about each others well being ... and trust their leaders...is truly a rich country.
     
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  8. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    Because of the persistent political upheavals, it would be very difficult for India to maintain a high growth rate for long.Much of India's growth in the past decade was attributed to base effect(poor country opening up it's economy) and extremely favorable international conditions.With growth rate down globally everywhere,it remains to be seen as to how India manages a high growth rate.

    Also,

    With over 60% living below 2$ and 24% living below 1.25 $ poverty in India is unimaginably very high.I don't know of any country outside of Sub Sarahan Africa with this level of poverty.

    Not to mention 1.25$ and 2$ translates to around Rs 22.5 and Rs 36(because poverty like per capita is calculated in PPP figures and 1$ PPP ~ 18 Rupees).It's very difficult to live on less than Rs 100 a day or Rs 3000 a month even in the poorest parts,let alone in big cities.You can live on that provided you exclude every basic thing(housing,travel,healthcare) from your daily itinerary and the only thing you are doing is eating and sleeping.In comparison the countries you have mentioned ie Thailand and Egypt have less than 5% of population living on less than 2$ a day.So you can very well imagine,what kind of challenges we are facing.
     
  9. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    This is a very sordid defense

    So you rather be a poor starving family man with no roof over head with no health and education than be a rich divorcee with a house with running water,24*7 electricity ?
     
  10. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Table 1: Actual and projected top 20 economies ranked based on GDP in PPP terms

    2011 2030 2050 PPP rank
    Country GDP at PPP

    GDP at PPP
    2011.........2030........2050

    1 US 15,094.........China 30,634.... China 53,856
    2 China 11,347.....US 23,376..... ...US 37,998
    3 India 4,531...... India 13,716..... India 34,704


    http://www.pwc.com/gx/en/world-2050/assets/pwc-world-in-2050-report-january-2013.pdf

    Note:This is based on CONgress rate of growth @6.5 now we are in MODI Raj @8 means
    2011.........2025........2040 :namaste:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  11. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    I have said it probably over 100 times that GDP PPP has no meaning and is largely useless outside of encyclopedia.This is because PPP is calculated using local currency and not international exchange currency(dollar)

    To compare nation's economy we use the nominal dollar exchange rate figures.

    So India was a 2 trillion $ economy,China was a 10 trillion $ economy and US was a 16.7 trillion $ economy in 2014.


    Also what matters is what constitutes your economy.While China's economy is mostly made up of shear hardcore manufacturing and industries,India is mostly odd jobs service sectors(like Kirana stores and betel shops).The much touted IT sector that we middle class boast about is only a 100 billion $ industry while employing less than 1% of the population.



    If India keeps with with,lets say 9% growth for long then we can reduce the gap with China from 1/5th to half by 2050.
     
  12. Jatt.Hindustan

    Jatt.Hindustan Tihar Jail Banned

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    Sir, OP are you a Pakistani?

    Why do you ignore the sick culture in the west. You can sleep on ground in India, and recieve langar and ayurvedic free of 'charge'

    Wyat is there in the west, beside naked asur melech women and for that fact in the south as well?

    Chabkya said 1 asur is dirtier than one thousand chandalas.

    Guru Gobind Sungh Ji has told us they are a diesease.

    So, why would I wajt to live in Canada/USA or for that matter Kerala/TN?

    God's own country for Asur's.

    I'm fine with living in my pind, with two rotiya and 20 bullets for practice each day.

    I wait, for you mofos to come to my face and say India is 'poor'

    When you go to receive treatment, tell gora sahib tobuse hiw own knowledge and not Charak Samhita.

    Jatt Pind Ch Hi Sidhay Ne, Sapta Sindhuch Hi Hindu Ne
    Te Dushman Kitthe Kitthe Ne

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
     
  13. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    Most Indians do not realize how poor India really is.


    Country ----------POPULATION----------BUDGET

    China---------- 1.3 billion ---------- 2.2 Trillion $

    U.K --------- 63 million ---------- 1.6 Trillion $

    Australia --------- 23 million ------------- 541 Billion $

    Netherlands --------16 million ------------ 420 Billion $

    India ------------ 1.2 Billion ----------- 320 Billion $


    So India is basically like a family of 4 living on Rs 2000 a month.

    On the top of that Subsidies and defense(a necessity) consumes a lion share of India's economy resulting in very little being left for anything else.


    India's terrible misery is because of it still sticking to extreme protectionism and not reforming it's laws because of which people are apprehensive about investing and setting up shops in India, resulting in very low levels of industrialization and low income generation.Until and unless India adopts a total free market economy it will continue to remain a very poor country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  14. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    I appreciate your pride in the nation but don't be so blindly chauvinistic that you simply start ignoring the ills plaguing the country.

    Just like you i am also proud to be an Indian but i am more realistic and practical because i want to see my country prosper.
     
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  15. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hello ,above u said 1$ =18 max means $53001*18/60= 16000
    India $5450,so Umerican income is 3 times of Indian.

    IMF data

    Look at Ind/Rus/Chi/US Maps,India don't have resources except ppl&ppl only.GDP of India always be low compared to sh*t nations called Saudie/Iran (rich natural resourceful countries with STONE AGE mentality).I better like to live in a Modern country like India than high GDP medieval sh!t hole like saudie/iran types :lol:
     
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  16. CrYsIs

    CrYsIs Regular Member

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    US Per capita income 2013 = $ 53,001

    India Per capita income 2013 = $ 5450

    So an American is 9.7 or nearly 10 times richer than an Indian.In purchasing power parity you cannot compare per capita incomes of two countries by converting it to it's local worth.


    As for the second part,it's highly untrue.India is rich in mineral and other essential elements but the root cause of India's poverty is poor economic policies and poor governance.

    Japan lacks resources but is still a very rich country.In India the poorest parts are the ones extremely rich in natural resources and the richest parts are the ones not so rich in resources.
     
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  17. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    While I appreciate your patriotism, I think people like you are the biggest enemies of India, due to your hate for certain regions of India.

    Your comments about "South" (Kerala and TN in particular) are not appreciated. Learn to behave here, or you will be shown a mirror pretty soon, and that won't be pleasant for you.

    For a start, stop murdering your girl children and gangraping your daughters for marrying outside their so-called "caste". There, how does that feel now?
     
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  18. Jatt.Hindustan

    Jatt.Hindustan Tihar Jail Banned

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    It feels like King Mahabali being murdered by Vishnu.
     
  19. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't quite understand what you mean here. Anyway, let it pass.

    Welcome to DFI. Spend some time around here, and get to know us. Most of us share your patriotism and nationalism - by definition, this is a forum of nationalists. And please do remember that it contains several nationalists and right-wingers from TN and Kerala, North-East, and practically all regions of India.
     
  20. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    We too have our own problems.
    The OP is talking about the reluctance of the past Indian Govts. to bring in massive changes in our fiscal policy.
    (Fortunately the current govt is trying its best to do so.)
     
  21. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    @CrYsIs

    As @atheisthindu has pointed out it will take a long time to catch up with the West. We must remember that India cares for the poor and weak, something which the West never did. Also corruption is an issue here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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