Is India a soft State?

[atleast_a_bronze]

ofcourse we are a soft state except when BJP was in power in 2000,they did not care what the public thought but went on to wage a war with Kashmir on kargil issue,ofcourse killer instinct is still missing ,like no terrorist is given captal punishment .we need some one like Bhagat Singh,or vallabbhai patel to unite india once again

We were and are a soft state, irrespective of whoever was/is in power.
With respect to Kargil, we had no other option except to fight the intruders after being caught unawares due to failure of our intelligence agencies.

And the IC-814 hijacking happened during BJP's tenure. When the plane was in Amritsar for 45 minutes, we were busy planning. Basically planning nothing for such an emergency. So much for our so called "Crisis Management Group".

And what better example than the lynching of BSF men in 2001 by BDR?

Unfortunately we and our institutions were/are at the helm of the babus who are masters in embezzling public money, involving in goonda politics and giving election promises and don't have the intellectual assets to steer our country. In the democracy that we take pride in, the only concern and focus is winning the next election and capturing power rather than national security issues. All the energies/focus for our babus goes into thinking/planning for the next election.

Unless we have a well informed, broad minded, intellectual breed of politicians both at the regional level and national level, we will be forced to remain a soft state, irrespective of whatever the few educated internet accessible souls like us would want India to become.

 

[roma]

refering to the post above by bronze

absolutely and if no specific action is taken to change the situation it wont.
and we'll keep seeing our poster locations as chennai/lodon or in my case, bombay/madrid .

 

[roma]

Krishna condemns Indian's murder in Australia

Krishna condemns Indian's murder in Australia
Press Trust of India, Sunday January 3, 2010, Bangalore/New Delhi
Krishna condemns Indian's murder in Australia


Strongly condemning the "brutal" killing of an Indian student in Melbourne, India has asked Australia to bring to book those responsible for the crime and said such incidents could have a "bearing" on bilateral ties.

"The brutal attack on the Indian student is strongly condemnable. I call on the Australian authorities to speedily bring to book persons responsible for the crime," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna told reporters in Bangalore.

He said the Australian government should realise that India is a vibrant democracy and such attacks were making the public opinion "polarised".

Krishna said Australian authorities should take note of the "deep anger" being caused by such incidents and the "bearing" they could have on bilateral ties.

Noting that New Delhi has been drawing the attention of the Australian authorities to these incidents and asking Canberra to take stringent measures, he said India's concerns should be adequately addressed by the Australian government.

An statement from the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) statement in New Delhi said Krishna has directed the Indian High Commissioner in Canberra and the Indian Consul General in Melbourne to closely coordinate with the Australian authorities and extend all assistance to the family of victim Nitin Garg.

Twenty one-year-old Garg, who migrated from Punjab and had a permanent residency in Australia, was stabbed to death by unidentified assailants last night while he was on his way to a fast food joint, where he worked part-time. (Read: Indian youth stabbed to death in Australia)

There has been a string of racist attacks on Indians in Australia since last year, but Garg is the first victim to have died.


so we can see that although the reaction is not soft nevertheless one wonders if it could have been swifter ?

still i commend the minister for his tough stand

it´s about time and there should be better co-ordination ; i.e Indian industry should also decide on group action against australian products

 

[ajtr]

India is a state which has lot of power and potential but its leadership dont know how to wield that power in international arena.our mindset is always mired by ,"what the people will think".thats why indians always try to be good boys by following the rules which no country in the world follows.

 

[johnee]

Is India a soft state? Absolutely!

Afzal Guru: mastermind of attack on Indian PARLIAMENT is still alive even though he is in the custody of India and his punishment was pronounced by the apex court.
Ajmal Kasab: one of the terrorists who participated in 26/11 attack in Mumbai killing 200 people in railway stations, high profile hotels, roads...etc is still alive even though he was caught red handed and is in India's custody.
Maulana Masood Azhar: a known terrorist and creator of Jaish e Mohammad was arrested by India in 1994 and released after the hijack of Indian airlines IC814. For 5yrs, he was in India's custody, what did India do? Once released he started a brand new terror Org.

If India has not punished those terrorists who are in its hands, what can it do to those that are not in its control? If I am a terrorist waiting for my commander's order, I would pray to allah that I be given job of attacking India and its interests. I would not want to take on US or Israel(the other two enemies of Islamic Jihad).

 

[ajtr]

Folks foolish Indian govt. is on verge of releasing some hardcore pakistani terrorist and repatriating them to pakistan.They soon will be recycled back into to terror cycle and again you'll find them in kashmir or some other part of india doing jihad.Iwont say india is soft state but sure it always somehow being ruled by stupid politicians.Its better that usa is trying Headley.India must extradite Ajmal kasab too to usa let them try and sentence him.coz the way indian govt releases the hardcore terrorists i ve my own dout that one day govt will end up releasing kasab too.

MA Stadium serial blasts accused among 28 Pakistanis being freed

JAMMU, Mar 24: Even as India refused to resume Composite Dialogue (CD) with Pakistan holding only Foreign Secretary level talks, the Government has directed for release of 28 Pakistani militants, infiltrators and border crossers arrested in the State during past several years.

Surprisingly, the militants approved for release include a hardcore ultra involved in Jammu’s most deadliest strike at MA Stadium on January 26, 1995 in which the then Governor Gen K V Krishna Rao had a miraculous escape while more than a dozen persons were killed and scores others were injured.

Out of 28 militants set to come out of the jails, 10 were under-trials and cases were pending against them in different courts. The MA Stadium blast accused is among the under-trials. Rest were undergoing conviction after being sentenced by the courts while none of them has completed his sentence so far.

However, a 21 year old girl Asiya of Bimber Mirpur, PoK, who had inadvertently crossed into this side from Sunderbani sector of Rajouri district and has been lodged in District Jail Rajouri, undergoing conviction of one year RI, is also set for release.

Official sources told the Excelsior that consular access of the militants has been fixed at Central Jail, Amritsar tomorrow. The militants were today taken out of the different jails of Jammu and Srinagar and driven to Amritsar.

Pakistan officials from External Affairs Ministry will cross over to this side from Wagah border in Amritsar district of Punjab tomorrow morning and hold consular access of militants (to confirm identity of their nationals before repatriation).

Sources said all those militants, who are confirmed as their citizens by Pakistani officials, are released after consular access on a day decided by External Affairs Ministries of the two countries. The militants would be repatriated from Wagah border in Amritsar district.

Consular access of 29 Pakistan militants had already been completed in Amritsar few months back, sources said, adding that all 57 ultras were expected to be repatriated to Pakistan after that country’s Foreign Ministry confirmed their nationality.

However, no gesture was expected from Pakistan in lieu of release of 57 militants, infiltrators and illegal border crossers. In exchange of consular access of 57 Pakistani nationals, a similar process has not been initiated even for a single Indian citizen, a number of whom were lodged in different Pakistani jails after they had crossed over to other side inadvertently.

Ghulam Nabi alias Nikka son of Fazal Din, a resident of Putwal, Sialkote in Pakistan was involved in MA Stadium serial blasts during Republic Day celebrations on January 26, 1995 in which the then Governor Gen K V Krishna Rao had a narrow escape while over a dozen persons were killed and scores injured. A number of IEDs had been planted under the stage by the militants from where Gen Rao was addressing Republic Day parade which went off during the function.

Major Irfan, a top Hizbul Mujahideen commander, arrested by police after the blasts for masterminding the terror strike, had already escaped from Kot Bhalwal jail along with two other accused.

Nikka was booked under Section 3/4 TADA Act, 2/3 Egress and Internal Movement Control Ordinance (E&IMCO) and 7/25 Arms Act. Presently lodged in Kot Bhalwal police station, Nikka was an under-trial and his case was sub-judice.

Out of 28 militants, infiltrators and illegal border crossers, whose release has been cleared by the Centre Government, 14 were lodged in District Jail, Jammu, nine in Central Jail, Kot Bhalwal, two in Sub Jail, Hiranagar and one each in Central Jail Srinagar, District Jail Poonch and District Jail, Rajouri.

Mohammad Farooq Sheikh (code name Abu Shamsher) son of Mohammad Muneer R/o Lalpora Naibadi, Sialkote is another top militant and an accused of killings and his case is still sub-judice (under-trial). He had been booked under Section 2/3 E&IMCO, 302, 307 and 120-B RPC, 7/25 Arms Act, 4/2 ESA, 147, 148, 149 RPC and 3 Public Property Damage Act.

Other Pakistani nationals, whose cases are under-trial in different courts here but who have been recommended for consular access (a pre-condition before release) include Mohammad Ashraf son of Anaayat R/o Pasroor, Sialkote, Allah Ditta son of Mohammad Sharief R/o Malokey, Narowal, Mohammad Asif son of Fazal Hussain R/o Gujarat, Punjab, Pappa Hussain of Panchan Nagyal, Kotli, PoK, Pialaz Bhill son of Juman Bhill R/o Sindh, Lalya Khan son of Shareen Khan R/o Naili, Lahori Market, Khalid Parvez alias Mohammad Javed son of Mohammad Ali R/o Shakergarh, Narowal and Saqib Aziz Malik alias Abu Said son of Abdul Aziz Malik R/o Muzaffargarh, Punjab.

Other Pakistan nationals, who will undergo consular access tomorrow, are under going conviction of a different period. They include Mohammad Imran son of Baba Saleem R/o Faisalabad, Hyder Ali son of Munir Ali R/o Saddar Bazaar, Karachi, Naseebullah son of Mohammad Idrees R/o Gujranwalla, Mohammad Zaffar Iqbal son of Mohammad Latief R/o Sialkote, Mohammad Aijaz son of Mohammad Akbar R/o Gopalpora, Sialkote, Imran Jamsheed Sheikh son of Jamsheed Sheikh R/o Sialkote.

Mohammad Abid Hussain son of Mohammad Sadiq R/o Pindi Purbi, Narowal, Mohammad Tariq son of Mohammad Sharief R/o Pakistan, Mohammad Shahzad son of Haq Nawaz R/o Bhawalpur, Ali Akbar son of Anwar R/o Faisalabad, Sikander Khan son of Abdul Majid R/o Narowal, Punjab, Niyamat Ali son of Mohammad Din Jullah R/o Lahore, Asiya daughter of Abid Malik and wife of Sajjad Malik R/o Bimber, Mirpur, Nazim Sahil alias Nazim son of Ashiq Sahil R/o Muzaffargarh, Showkat Ali son of Barkat Hussain R/o Pasroor, Manzoor Hussain son of Fateh Mir R/o Punjab, Ashiq Ali son of Warand Ali R/o Baluchistan and Imran Massih son of Samson Massi R/o Sialkote.

 

[Nagraj]

hey wait a sec here.......
every country has problem.
india as nascent state has more internal problem then external.
currently povetry and lack of education and lack of healthcare are our primary enemies.
and we are dealing with them first .
external problems can only be tackled once we have solved internal problem.
i will not say india is a soft state .
it is just that we are focussed on our internal issue more then our external issue and which is the right thing in my opinion.

 

[Armand2REP]

I had to vote yes. After the Mumbai bombings i really expected more action, but things changed little and all GoI did was shake its fist. China is still taking ground on the LOC, daming important rivers, playing games with Kashmir, blocking Indian business interest and importing billions in counterfeit goods. Even Naxal rebels go without a strong bitch slap from the Army. GoI is too busy dealing with its own corrupt babus to make a strong political stand. It is time to clean house and grow some balls.

 

[Parthy]

I don't want to see India as a soft state. Then there's no point in maintaining world's second largest Army with huge reserved force, fourth largest Airforce and Navy...

The forces are meant to thwart all threats to the nation, not as watcher..

 

[SHASH2K2]

I had to vote yes. After the Mumbai bombings i really expected more action, but things changed little and all GoI did was shake its fist. China is still taking ground on the LOC, daming important rivers, playing games with Kashmir, blocking Indian business interest and importing billions in counterfeit goods. Even Naxal rebels go without a strong bitch slap from the Army. GoI is too busy dealing with its own corrupt babus to make a strong political stand. It is time to clean house and grow some balls.

Armand even I voted for GOI being soft and for softness my assessment is a little diffrent than yours. India is working hard on its economy and needs loads of foreign investments. These investments come from western or developing countries. India can very well teach pakistan a lesson with magnitude of 1072 but while doing that economy w2ill go for a toss. A terrorist state like Pakistan want to hurt our economy so that gap doesnt widen and if somehow we are able to keep economical growth intact Pakistan will break up on its own. If you look at socio economic and mental state of pakistani citizens you can have idea of time to come. We have beaten them on several occasions but they keep on coming back so we need to work on a permanent solution though it may be time taking. Why do we need to kill Pakistanis when they are already killing themselves .

 

[Parthy]

Politicians are doing a wonderful job to play politics within the country and to loot the Tax-Payers money in forms of Spectrum and CAG scams... They'll take enough money and then say they quit...

A political revolution should happen to clean up the country!! No such revolution happened within the country since Independence.. Group of people who lost their faith in the GOI are taking this steps and converted into Naxals and other revolutionary groups in Eastern part of India - They change their way of approach after getting very little interest from the government...

The GOI is not meant for people of India..

 

[SpArK]

Before voting, i need to know whats the opposite for "soft nation"... Rogue nation?? Bully nation?? aggressive nation? responsive nation? Hard nation?

 

[SHASH2K2]

Before voting, i need to know whats the opposite for "soft nation"... Rogue nation?? Bully nation?? aggressive nation? responsive nation? Hard nation?

I think this question is irrelevent here but I guess if we are soft nation then its opposition will be something which is ready to go to any extent to protect its national intrests. Israel is very much in proactive mode while we are in reactive mode that too selectively.

 

[shaka]

Yes, India is a soft state. As it has been pointed out by many posters with examples.

Strange that 7 people so far voted "no". What are they smoking ???

 

[chex3009]

Yes, India is a soft state, GoI should take care of Indians not only in India but anywhere on this planet, by any means and protect their interests.

 

[SpArK]

Its so boring when everybody agrees to something .. so let me voice something different for the sake of debating.

Alright.... i believe we are a hard nation. Our hard stance started on 1948 with Kashmir, 65, liberation of Goa from Portuguese, intervention in 71, organising the NAM ,etc etc We made tougher stands that even Nixon was annoyed with the PM during a time.

The Pakistanis are straightforward and sometimes extremely stupid. The Indians are more devious, sometimes so smart that we fall for their line-Richard Nixon

Failure or outcomes which are not of the desired scale were always due to unpreparedness or non professionalism shown by the people responsible. Example: 62.

After those war we had a long nation building phase where we were faced a hard time with economy and food security and there was no scope to be a hard nation or soft nation . Like in the period of late 70's to 90's

Once we climbed the ladder of economic progress our aggression moved into another phase called "diplomacy".. I cant recall much nations who has extensive lobbying and aggressive campaigning along with open declarations of discomfort over military deals to major nations.

All the 5 majors nation's premiers came to us like a salesman , selling goods.

In the year 2010 alone , we know how many times we tried to influence certain decisions on other nations . We are never shy to announce our intentions of controlling the Indian ocean and has regular military exercises with majors.Our military spending is that of an aggressive mode and we are purchasing weapons on a large scale.
It is due to our hard stance that not even US or anybody dares to talk about Kashmir.

Yes we have been soft on issues like with BD incident as suggested in the thread opening post and with pakistan over various attacks. But will a war with a minnow nation like BD do any good for us especially when we are trying to create an image internationally through diplomacy?
Will a war against a nation who openly says that they will use nukes against us do any good.??We were successful in kicking back their aggression during Kargil and made sure no others intervened.

We cant just go on do anything on the basis of what US does when its been targeted Eg: iraq, Afghanistan , Koreas, vietnam etc..

US never get cozy with any of the nations which are near like in cuba or venezuela , They are happy to send a ship load of soldiers only to far east. We cant afford to do that coz our threat is immidieate and in the neighbourhood and we have much to loose than to gain.

So diplomacy is our weapon .

And yes, we are not a soft nation.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Its so boring when everybody agrees to something .. so let me voice something different for the sake of debating.

Alright.... i believe we are a hard nation. Our hard stance started on 1948 with Kashmir, 65, liberation of Goa from Portuguese, intervention in 71, organising the NAM ,etc etc We made tougher stands that even Nixon was annoyed with the PM during a time.

If that was the case we should have captured remaining part of kashmir as well . also in 1972 when more than half of pakistan was capture why didnt we bargained it for kashmir. some western powers threatened us and we vacated everything. I know you will will come back saying we liberated Bangladesh but that was not direct involvement of Indian armed forces that liberated them It was mukti wahini at the front.

 

[shaka]

i believe we are a hard nation. Our hard stance started on 1948 with Kashmir,

What hard stance? if we had hard stance, we would have taken PoK back when we had opurtunities

65, liberation of Goa from Portuguese,

intervention in 71,

organising the NAM

I agree with these ones, but these are very rare and now is 2011. ie. 40 years, now we are definitely a soft nation.

Failure or outcomes which are not of the desired scale were always due to unpreparedness or non professionalism shown by the people responsible. Example: 62.

example of weak power

All the 5 majors nation's premiers came to us like a salesman , selling goods.

Means nothing, infact it means we are soft that we cant extract from those countries what we want in exchange of business. example: China

In the year 2010 alone , we know how many times we tried to influence certain decisions on other nations

What does this mean? we cant even control Nepal, S Lanka. LoL

We are never shy to announce our intentions of controlling the Indian ocean

How about controlling S Lanka first.

has regular military exercises with majors

Again irrelevant

Our military spending is that of an aggressive mode and we are purchasing weapons on a large scale.

What does this mean? What are weapons for ?

It is due to our hard stance that not even US or anybody dares to talk about Kashmir.

But Pak talks. US dont share border with us. Even i can give an example like this : not even Angola talk about Kashmir

Yes we have been soft on issues like with BD incident as suggested in the thread opening post and with pakistan over various attacks. But will a war with a minnow nation like BD do any good for us especially when we are trying to create an image internationally through diplomacy?

Will a war against a nation who openly says that they will use nukes against us do any good.??We were successful in kicking back their aggression during Kargil and made sure no others intervened.

We cant just go on do anything on the basis of what US does when its been targeted Eg: iraq, Afghanistan , Koreas, vietnam etc..

US never get cozy with any of the nations which are near like in cuba or venezuela , They are happy to send a ship load of soldiers only to far east. We cant afford to do that coz our threat is immidieate and in the neighbourhood and we have much to loose than to gain.

We have to protect our national interests. It doesn't mean going to war with pakistan etc. how about doing some justice to start with eg. eliminate enemies i.e. targeted assassinations, hanging Kasab etc. within few months they are caught, Taxing Chinese goods if they dont stop supporting Pakistan militarily. Kiking out F-16/F-18 out of MMRCA when America announced military aid to Pakistan etc. etc. etc.

So diplomacy is our weapon .

And yes, we are not a soft nation.

Diplomacy equals soft power.

And yes, we are a soft nation.

 

[SpArK]

shaka;219310]What hard stance? if we had hard stance, we would have taken PoK back when we had opurtunities

Agree with you completly, but its impossible now in this age. Otherwise China would have taken Taiwan much earlier.

I agree with these ones, but these are very rare and now is 2011. ie. 40 years, now we are definitely a soft nation.

Huh ....You mean we need to do another war to reverse the trend.

example of weak power

Not example of weak power.. example of weak system or governance.

Means nothing, infact it means we are soft that we cant extract from those countries what we want in exchange of business. example: China

Only exception is China , even with a hard stance we wont be able to do it due to past history and level of trust.

What does this mean? we cant even control Nepal, S Lanka. LoL

We dont need to and we are not supposed to. We are not colonists.

How about controlling S Lanka first.

Same answer. We are not in British era anymore..

What does this mean? What are weapons for ?

Defense preparedness. It does nt mean every weapon we buy must be used.. like buying fire crackers in diwali.

But Pak talks. US dont share border with us. Even i can give an example like this : not even Angola talk about Kashmir

Yes they talks , because they are part of the problem. i was talking about other nations. What is the relavance of Angola.. In a global scenario , we usually look at the opinions of major powers only. ( Do we have a face palm smiley here..Lol)

We have to protect our national interests. It doesn't mean going to war with pakistan etc. how about doing some justice to start with eg. eliminate enemies i.e. targeted assassinations, hanging Kasab etc. within few months they are caught, Taxing Chinese goods if they dont stop supporting Pakistan militarily. Kiking out F-16/F-18 out of MMRCA when America announced military aid to Pakistan etc. etc. etc.

We are not good at target assacinations,
Agree with hanging kasab ASAP,
Taxing chinese goods is also a good idea even banning is also good, but we cant dictate them to stop aiding Pakistan militarily, even US cant do that.. does that mean US is also soft power?

Diplomacy equals soft power.

And yes, we are a soft nation.

yes pick up the gun and lets follow what Iraq did in Kuwait..and act tough..







Note: first of all sorry for the late reply And secondly i have said in my previous post that i am posting something different for debate purposes and doesn't necessarily is my own opinion.

 

[Oracle]

Is India a soft state? No, we are a tolerant state. The day the limit is crossed, the world will witness a resurgent India.