Is Antony an incompetent defence minister?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by SHASH2K2, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    we are all aware of unnecessary delay in procurement of critical defence equipments. MRCA is going on for years . cancellation or artillery guns tender is another unnecessary delay. lack of public sector participation is another issue which is hampering our capability to but most of equipments within the country. Whether we like it or not defense minister has very critical role to play in all this. so my question is that IS AK Antony a incompetent minister and MMS should replace him ?

    I am looking towards a healthy discussion.
     
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  3. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    if you are a supporter of home grown products, he is the best ever and a hero.
    if you are a supporter of off-shore products and its purchase, he is a damper.
    if you specifically talk about security of the nation and requirements be filled up, then india never had a defence minister who perfectly fitted the bill, and antony is no different.

    all in all the value of this man might not be realised today but tomorrow when india has a sound home grown defence industry which significantly caters to our needs he will certainly be one of the best building blocks ever, what he is doing is a great service to the nation though in short to mid term that might not be the case and why just blame him for that, prior to him there was the NDA which could have done the mmrca with the mirage but they delayed it, followed by pranab mukherjee who ended up being no better. it was not antony who starter the INS vikramaditya fiasco, negotiations were started by the NDA, completed by them, the controversy erupted when mukherjee was around and ended when antony was heading the ministry.

    with antony atleast one thing is for sure, and that is he will not get into dirty murky deals which have a long term ramification on the security of the nation.

    yes foreign firms hate him and there has been a concerted campaign to see his back in the ministry but then when their interests are not being met such crap will take center stage.
     
  4. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Defense minister Antony's competence only limited to the extent his bureaucracy gives him breathing space.Anthony is not in that post because he can tell a AK47 from a 56,rather because he can keep a tight leash over the defense bureaucracy and more importantly provide clean administration.Infact it was apparent clean image in kerala politics(not a mean achievement)for yeas which earned him the defense job,with the three services ordering acquisitions worth several billions of dollars,UPA govt felt it needed somebody who could ensure clean dealings and keep the ministry scandal free........Anthony has more or less met that primary objective.

    India's past problems with several defense procurement and programmes have been because established procedures and institutions have been roughshod by incompetent ministers with dubious agendas.
     
  5. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I support Indian made weapons but system which are very critical for army like field guns. we are raising 2 mountain divisons . I donot know what will they use when we donot have enough weapons for existing army units.
    I feel that he failed in supporting Indian made weapons as well. there are many Indian companies ready with money to Invest but he is supporting only DRDO and HAL. There sould have been a level playing field and competition to get better result for research and developments.

    God forbids . If china plan to do something we will be running to Russia and America with begging bowl to help us . This is Superpower India in the making and we cannot even defend our country leave aside attacking someone.
     
  6. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    the need for field guns is not something that erupted today, post the bofor's scandal its been good 20 years with atleast 8 different governments that took to office (CS, PVR, gujral, godra, ndaI, ndaII, upaI, upaII) and there have been as many dfenece ministers during this time if not more so why just blame this one man. if anything there are 7 more people who were as clueless and careless if antony is to be blamed but then can you entirely blame him when there is an opportunistic bureaucracy that at every given point wants to make that extra buck and antony is a no nonsense man for all such corrupt practices and when they see antony not fall in line they find n number of ways to delay the whole process and not that one process but everything that is related to defence procurement of this nation. as such india's defence procurement was never one which could be termed as one on steroids.

    even other wise other than for a brief period post 65 when was the other time when we had decently adequate defence products with our armed forces? there have always been inadequate money supply, inadequate use of budgeted money, bureaucratic opportunism and their delaying tactics, an opposition which does opposition for namesake, corruption, and a defence procurement that happened at snail's pace.

    had anotny not been there rest assured the date of LCA's IOC would have been 2012 and with no certainty of even that deadline being met as happened numerous times in the past, this chap gives a stick when it is to be given and it was only under him that subsequent ACMs fell in line and started taking LCA seriously which all started when ACM major was heading the force and antony the defence minister. had this chap not been there rest assured the additional 124 arjun would have not seen their place which is justifiably theirs, and why just 124 there is a certain room for many more. do i need to mention akash, today both the air force and army want it. had his much needed support not been there the LUH/LOH program would not be expected to be completed 2 yrs prior to its deadline, a claim by extremely confident HAL, a first in indian history. should i be talking LCH and many such projects, let us give credit where it is due, dont get me wrong, even i have bashed him but that does not stop me from seeing the wisdom this chap holds.

    there has been an active participation from the pvt sector, name any project and they are present in their own small ways, yes i agree their role needs to increase and it is gradual process but yes i again agree the process of which could certainly be paced up, may be he comes from kerala so he might not be too much in favor of too much private participation but i hope he will see a good reason in having a highly competitive private participation in fulfilling defence needs of the nation and seriously even here i want indian companies to take the lead and not overseas MNCs fill up the space as is the attempt of the ministry of commerce (a ministry i know a lot about) and the PMO for certain very clear motives, something to which a clean mr antony remains highly allergic, and i am sure i dont need to mention those vested interests. (PMO doesnt necessarily refer to to the PM of the country).

    china and attack india, far from it, they have a dprk to take care off as their immediate problem with the US circling them on that issue, post that they have a tiawan problem. for india, china is not that big a problem but pakistan and yes with certain maniacs heading that country we have a headache but i remain convinced that what ever weaponry we have at our disposal we are pretty well covered to certainly defend ourselves beyond that where we will have to paly a more dominant role, i am not so sure.

    my friend, india a super power in making, well for now these ToI initiated phrases are best kept where they were picked up from. for india to reach that stage, there remain a lot of slips between that sip, and only once have we crossed that bridge that we talk about it till then let it be in a cold storage called ToI, even the chinese dont themselves as one, since they pretty well know hom soon the boat they sailing on can be rocked.
     
  7. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    Is Antony an incompetent defence minister?
    no..no.no...yes ...yes...yes....yes.....err...not sure...not sure... dont know ..dont know... yaar , i am equally confused..unable to say yes,no ,alright...sorry!!!:emot180:
     
  8. prateikf

    prateikf Regular Member

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    YES HE IS THE MOST INCOMPETENT DEFENCE MINISTER. He is another krishna menon in the making.
    Krishna menon led the country to defeat in the 1962 war. should another war break out India would indeed have to pay a very heavy price in terms of men and material's.
    Could anyone answer as to why is mr. antony blacklisting all the possible foreign firm's? even as his stint as the defence minister of kerala he bankrupted the state and he is responsible for the many problem's kerala is facing today. no one wants him in kerala so he is at the centre.
    he has made the critically important artillery tender an annual affair. he cancelled the desperately needed 197 heloicopter deal after it was signed. even today the helicopter trial's are still on. His FMS route has cost the nation hugely in terms of money. why was VVIP helicopter deal conducted so swiftly? under antony our mechanised and artillery divsions have become more weaker than that of pakistan.
     
  9. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One who does not know about a subject and its intricacies, will appear to be at sea.

    Very few politicians in India have any military background. To them, it is but a 10 to 5 job, duly assisted by bureaucrats, who are equally clueless.

    It is the system which is failing.

    Can't blame those foisted on the system to make it work!
     
  11. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Antony is an incompetent moron, in my opinion. There have been gratuitous expositions on how his attitude has affected the defense forces. I won't wax longsome on them.

    But in my opinion, he's endangering national security by his otherwise laudable fetish for probity. Even within the Congress, there have been calls for reforms within the defence sector, reforms that treat private industry on a par with public-sector-undertakings, reforms that envision growth and competitiveness for the future, that envision a measure of self-reliance, so that we are not deigned to rely upon the very suppliers whose profligacy is a cause for corruption.

    Then there is the thorough incompetence and ignorance of technical issues he brings to the table. Something I find is inexcusable in the top echelons of the military-bureaucracy.

    I've heard, stories where undersecretaries and their associates move to make decisions on vitally required procurement, only to receive a memo from the office asking them why they're in such a hurry? And if they have any vested interests in the project??

    You know, when a malformed twig or branch grows on a plant, you don't stop giving the plant water, in the hope that the plant will die and the twig alongwith it. You snap the twig off and bury it. That's the best analogy I can think of for how this bureaucracy is run.

    A good minister requires not just vision for the long-run, but composition for the short-run as well. Antony fulfills merely one of those requirements, past ministers notwithstanding.

    Antony, you hurt the image of your party and the nation with it. You hurt the ability of the defence forces to function by not replacing essentials on time, in the quest for your public image and the zeal for your punctilio. Make way for someone more capable than you, an undersecretary perhaps, who will place the nation and its armed forces, before character politics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  12. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Six arms firms proposed for MoD blacklist
    The Indian Defense Minister AK Antony confirmed to Parliament on Tuesday, the recommendation of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for the blacklisting of six arms firms by the Ministry of Defense. Four of these firms, Singapore Technology (Singapore Technologies), Israeli Military Industries (Israel Military Industries), TS Kissan and Company Private Limited and RK Machine Tools Private Limited, are the subject of such a recommendation for the second time, after they were first blacklisted in June last year, along with three other firms, Media Architecture Private Limited of Singapore, BVT of Poland and HYT Engineering of India.

    Two other firms, Rheinmetall Air Defence of Germany and a Russian firm called Cooperation Defence have also been recommended for blacklisting this time around.

    All of these firms have been implicated in the corruption case involving the former Director General of Ordnance Factories and Chairman of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), Sudipta Ghosh, in May last year.

    Of the above firms, the CBI has pressed charges against only two of them, TS Kissan and Company Private Limited and RK Machine Tools Private Limited. While the former is accused of paying INR 3,000,000 to Ghosh for getting orders from the the Heavy Vehicle Factory at Avadi, the latter is accused of paying INR 250,000 to the him for getting orders from Heavy Vehicle Factory at Avadi as well as the Ordnance Factory, Chanda.

    According to the Parliamentary answer, the ‘CBI report indicates that there is a prima facie or circumstantial evidence of payment of illegal gratification to Shri Sudipto Ghosh’ by the other other mentioned firms as well. The ‘CBI has indicated in the report that illegal gratification had been paid to Shri Sudipto Ghosh on behalf of some other firms also and that some of them may be liable for prosecution at a later stage depending on the evidence to be collected during the ongoing investigation’. The matter is under further investigation by CBI.

    The statement issued by the ministry on the Parliamentary answer also says no other officers of the OFB have been implicated by the CBI investigations.

    The statement is less than clear about the the value of the orders given to three of the firms, with Israel Military Industries getting order worth ‘US$ 91,24,928, EURO 11,30, 677,545, Rs. (INR) 372,29,21,000′, TS Kissan and Company Private Limited getting orders worth ‘Rs. (INR) 70,50,04,701′ and RK Machine Tools Private Limited receiving orders worth ‘Rs. (INR) 53,83,233,871′.

    The statement ended by saying, “The CBI report is being examined in the Ministry. Further action in the matter will be taken after obtaining the advice of CVC (Central Vigilance Commission) and the Ministry of Law.”
    http://www.stratpost.com/six-arms-firms-proposed-for-mod-blacklist
     
  13. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Army towed guns’ tender jinxed, junked
    The Indian Army has issued a Request For Information (RFI) for towed artillery guns, effectively canceling the previous process for procurement of these weapons systems, in which BAE Systems was fielding the FH77 B05, (an upgraded version of the FH77 B02 in service with the army) against Singapore Technologies (ST) Kinetics’ iFH 2000.

    The army, which had issued the RFI on Thursday, gave much cause for confusion, by initially alluding to ‘A Self Propelled Gun System mounted on a vehicle chassis such as CEASER 155 mm Self propelled Gun’. The line was deleted on Friday evening, to remove any doubts about the earlier tender process being canceled.

    During the day, on Friday, sources in the Ministry of Defense confirmed that the RFI, indeed, indicated a fresh tender for 155 mm/52 caliber Towed Artillery Guns. The reason the ministry gave for this decision was the creation of a single-vendor situation due to the non-appearance of the ST Kinetics’ gun at the trials. The Defense Procurement Procedure (DPP) does not allow procurement if only a single vendor survives the tender process. ST Kinetics had earlier asked for a delay in the trials because the unit it planned to demonstrate in India was damaged in transit. Sources representing ST Kinetics, however, insisted the weapon had been brought to India and was at the Pokhran firing range in Rajasthan, along with the competing BAE Systems’ weapon, awaiting range time for the trials.

    Ministry sources did not include as a reason, or allude to, the blacklisting of ST Kinetics in June last year on allegations of corruption and a letter reported to have been sent by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to the ministry, earlier this month, asking for the firm to be blacklisted, besides five others. In the interests of the army’s procurement process, the ministry had waived the blacklisting of ST Kinetics last December for the purpose of proceeding with trials for the tender process, subject to the final report submitted by the CBI.

    Curiously, ST Kinetics had in January denied it had been blacklisted by the ministry.

    The canceled tender was for 1580 units, of which 400 were to be purchased off the shelf and the rest 1180, to be license-produced in India by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) after transfer of technology. The Defense Acquisitions Council (DAC) had approved procurement on December 13, 2007 and a Request For Proposal (RFP) was issued on March 26, 2008. The Technical Evaluation Committee (TEC) shortlisted the weapons of two firms BAE Systems and ST Kinetics and scheduled the trials to commence from February 27, 2010. This is has not happened so far.

    The army is also looking for other types of artillery, albeit in much smaller numbers.

    The DAC had approved procurement of 145 units of 155 mm/39 Caliber Ultra Light Howitzers on June 19, 2006 and an RFP was issued to ten global vendors on January 14, 2008. ST Kinetics was the only one to submit a Technical and Commercial Offer for its Pegasus Light Weight Howitzer, on June 30, 2008. The TEC report was submitted to the Director General (Acquisitions) in the Ministry of Defense on March 23, 2009. Since this was, again, a single-vendor situation, the process was put on hold, around the time the company was first blacklisted.

    The army has also tried to initiate procurement of light guns through a direct Foreign Military Sale (FMS), with a Letter of Request issued by the ministry on May 19, 2009, for BAE Systems M777 lightweight howitzer. An Indian Army technical delegation visited the US between January 09 and 16 this year for demonstrations of the weapons. The US government has proposed the provisioning of two units for trials and has requested 84 rounds of Indian ammunition for the purpose.A draft Letter of Request is under formulation by the Ministry of Defense for this purpose.

    The army is currently holding trials, supposed to have begun on April 27, 2010, for 180 units of 155 mm/52 Caliber Wheeled Self Propelled Guns, which was approved by the DAC on June 19, 2006. The RFP for the weapons was issued on February 04, 2008 and Technical and Commercial Offers were received on June 23, 2008. Konstruckta Defence of Slovakia and Rheinmetall Defence of Germany were shortlisted for trials. Rheinmetall Defence is one of the six firms reported to have been recommended for blacklisting by the CBI earlier this month.

    The army had been issued an RFP on August 29, 2008 for 100 units of 155 mm/52 Caliber Tracked Self Propelled Guns, which had been approved by the DAC on February 26, 2008. Eleven vendors had responded to the RFP, but only Rheinmetall Defence submitted a Technical and Commercial Offer, leading to a single-vendor situation, following which the process was canceled. The army then amended its parameters or General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQR) and issued a fresh RFP.

    The Indian Army’s artillery procurement and modernization process has been jinxed since the controversy over the corruption scandal involving Bofors towed artillery procurement in the 1980s with corruption allegations and delays becoming the norm.
    http://www.stratpost.com/army-towed-guns-tender-jinxed-canceled
     
  14. 171K

    171K Tihar Jail Banned

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  15. prateikf

    prateikf Regular Member

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    Rage has indeed written very well about the present defence minister. the armed forces and the nation will pay heavily in terms of money and lives owing to his stupidity.
     
  16. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Government Dilutes FDI Norms for HAL JV Projects

    New Delhi — In a recent move by the Indian government which may set a precedent in terms of the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) norms in defence, the cap of 26 per cent FDI has been relaxed for Russia. The recent decision has been seen as an upsetting move for private firms.

    The recent joint venture between state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Russian firm Rosoboronexport is a 50:50 venture for a transport plane and the project cost is estimated at Rs 2900 crore. The plane will be created for the Indian defence forces and will cater to the cargo airlines as well. The HAL-Rosoboronexport venture will develop a prototype within 51 months after starting work and make the plane in six years.

    Although the current FDI cap in defence ventures stands at 26 per cent, the Indian government has made a provision to support 49 per cent FDI as a special case in the HAL-Rosoboronexport. It may be noted that India had decided to raise the 26 percent cap on FDI in the defence manufacturing sector to enable the co-development with Russia of the multi-role transport aircraft (MRTA) in 2008.

    The current move to relax the 26 per cent cap has left a lot of private players in a quandary as they feel that it’s a biased decision.
    According to the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI), the premier association of business organisations in India, the requirement for a joint venture qualifying as a special venture must entail a guaranteed and genuine technology transfer as well as a localisation programme as part of the deal. Otherwise, the 26 per cent FDI cap in defence has been thoughtfully formulated and must not be altered.

    The current FDI cap in defence sector of 26 per cent has been questioned and criticised by various industry sections within the country and its pros and cons have been weighed consistently. While the Defence Ministry vehemently supports the 26 per cent cap in FDI, the Industry Ministry advocated FDI of 74 per cent in defence and some sections even supported 100 per cent FDI.

    The Commerce Ministry had suggested that raising the FDI cap will pave the way for greater technology from international majors and the much-needed investments in the defence sector. Even the private sector players support the raising of FDI caps in order to allow a larger share to foreign companies. This will allow the private players to gain from sensitive borrowed technology and also cut capital costs in setting up new manufacturing units.

    However, the Indian Defence Ministry feels that it will stifle the burgeoning defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs). Even the premier organisation FICCI indicated that FDI and transfer of technology are rarely directly proportional. Hence, raising FDI is no guarantee for the transfer of technology. Besides, India is slated to attract major investments in this sector regardless of the 26 per cent cap and it will continue to spend on defence equipment in the future.
     
  17. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, his hasty and drastic decissions may lead to chaos in the INDIAN DEFENCE establishment. Why don't the babus understand the seriousness of NATIONAL SECURITY.:angry_10:
     
  18. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    It looks like this time its Neta who is against growth of private Indian players in our own defence industry.
     

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