Is America really a secular nation ?

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by sehwag1830, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. sehwag1830

    sehwag1830 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Their president have to take oath on bible.
    People who have to be elected have to change their religion like bobby jindal and nikki haley .

    I think they are a fundamentalist christian nation hiding behind secularism. They are 1000 years behind India in secularism and never will be.
     
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  3. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    India never practiced secularism in any point of its history. India was known for another unique social experiment, known as religious pluralism. Secularism asked for separation between state and church.The problem in transferring such a social reality to Indian social spectrum is that, in our country a religious institution like church never existed here. For us, the operative word would be DHARMA. We have distinct set of social and other conducts codified for for even our kings, called RAJDHARMA. This prevented rampant misuse of legislative power by the rulers of the land. And most significant of all, legislative power were decentralized to a very large extent. For this reason alone, religious rights were always preserved.This is the reason no religious groups , including persecuted minority like Jews were never harassed here.Anyone reading arthashastra confirm what I am talking about.
     
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  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    well bobby and nikki changed their religion becoz of their own choice.

    I have many cozens in USA who wear turban and working as doctor, in police dept and in IT firm.

    They face no problem so far
     
  5. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    I support this notion. America had only on non protestant president in John f Kennedy throughout its long history. There had been no non-Christians at any seat of high power until the last several decades. African-Americans got the right to vote only after 1960's , with the end of the law of segregation.
     
  6. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    The founding documents of the United States of America acknowledge rights bestowed in its citizens by the Creator.
    Amendment I of the US Constitution says that there is no national church, Christian or other.
     
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  7. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    American society is quite secular, I can tell you that.
     
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  8. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    American was founded as a secular nation : The founding fathers ran away from Religious persecution, so they promised religious freedom for everyone.

    The whole bible thing is a 20 century making. Very few presidents since 1900 have not used the bible - like Roosevelt and John Quincy Adams. However, the president is allowed to use any book he chooses when taking the oath, John Quincy Adams chose the book of the law. But presidents realized that not using a bible was political suicide and recently all of them do.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if Romney becomes president. It will be a fun day to see someone taking an oath with the Book of Mormon. :lol:

    But, yes, other than such semantics, America is a secular nation. There is more religious freedom here than anywhere else. And there is absolutely no religious intolerance or persecution. In fact the right wing loonies of all religions are so far right from the government on issues like abortion iots not even funny. It is a case of excess of religious freedom. And that does not tamper secularism because all religions use that extreme.

    The whole mosque in Manhattan was justifiably opposed in my view. It was insensitive of that Imam. Yet, many Americans, though they did not want the mosque there, still supports the rights of the Imam to build one there.

    All this said, secularism is easier when you have one religion dominating your demography. If in 50 years the demography changes a lot, things could change. Example is what is happening in Europe.
     
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  9. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    ^^ Very true. Even if USA reaches a fraction of the ethnic and religious diversity of India, these facade of secularism would be chucked out the window, like a toilet paper. We must remember USA takes its self interest very seriously, unlike apologetic and self-loathing India!
     
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  10. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    But right now they are much more secular than the most seculars... Right now....
     
  11. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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    bobby jindal's decision to change religion was his personal decision & same about nickey haley....a country is secular if all religions are treated equally and have equal opportunities and no person is declared kafir because of his religion....secular or extremist people do not make a country secular but constitution does.
     
  12. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    Institutionally speaking, of course, India is very much a secular country, more than any country in the world. No religion is discriminated against in any sphere in public life, guaranteed by constitution.
     
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  13. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Ya Nikki Haley is trying to hide behind skin color. There is a huge social pressure to be white in the USA, Kudos to Obama to marry a black women and stay truth full to who he is.

    Nikey Hailey
    [​IMG]

    Vs

    Barak Obama. One more reason to like Obama.

    [​IMG]

    People like JayaATL make me sick, i am happy he is trying to integrate, i am happy he inter married but to come here and tell us we are inferior, infuriates me, i really hate such people.:rage:
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  14. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    I think it more important to be Christian in USA to be elected than race itself. You have to stress your faith or else they wont vote for you.

    Lol.. I edited her Wikepedia page, lets see what happens. I added Sikh with Methodist. :D

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    The US is by far a very secular and tolerant society.

    When I was planning to move to North Carolina, I was told by many back in India, that North Carolina was a Southern State and was opposed to Abraham Lincoln (during the Civil War) and from that they drew conclusions that people here supported slavery and racism. Nothing could be further from the truth. One aspect of the Civil War that is not known is the States' Rights, which originates from the days when the 13 Colonies decided to form a union. Over the years, it is argued, the US Federal Government had gradually taken away many of the States' Rights, which was one reason for the Civil War.

    When coming over to religion, one will see a lot of religious diversity in North Carolina. I have not lived in many other places, but visited quite a few. I have not seen even a single incident for concern. While there is a law in North Carolina against face masks, I have not heard of a single Muslim woman in a burqa being given a citation or a ticket, leave alone being arrested. I have, however, seen white people being asked to remove their face masks that were part of their Halloween costume, by the police.

    Yes, Christmas is a national holiday, but only the Western Christmas. Good Friday. which is a holiday in India, is rarely declared as a Holiday in the US. Neither is Asher-Wednesday a holiday. While it is true that there is no official holiday for Muslims and Hindus (AFAIK), even some branches of Christians are also not afforded this privilege, e.g. January 7th, the Christmas Day for the Russian Orthodox Christians, Ukrainian Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, et al.. This is more about tradition than anything else. People are not overtly religious. Many people are agnostic, hardly anyone practices abstinence in the way Indian Catholic Christians do.

    Also, absence of too many holidays is a good thing in the US, because, if we look at the Roman Empire, they reached a stage when almost half of the year was holiday and merry making. This preceded the collapse of the Roman Empire. The US believes in hard work and too many holidays is neither good for the economy, nor healthy for the working population.

    The US is a well oiled machine and it knows how not to get lazy. There may not be too many religious holidays, but there are rarely instances where one ethnic or religious group goes on a pogrom against another. Personally, I'd rather live safely and with dignity without religious holidays than have religious holidays but the possibility of religious riots culminating in many dead and maimed.
     
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  16. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    The bottomline my indian friends, is that there is nothing like absolute secular. No one other than us takes that bullcrap so seriously. Everywhere, indigenous culture and way of life is given heavier importance and that is the law of nature in any country. Only in our country we feel ashamed of being proud of our way of the land.

    And only those countries who are proud to brandish their way of life, will be proud of accepting others equally. Wannabe self-ashamed types will make neither the indigenous nor the foreign communities happy.
     
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  17. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    A secular as it can be!
     
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  19. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Modern America is very much institutionally secular, and religious persecution does not exist. There are some Americans on the far-right who would like a Christian theocracy, but they form less than one-tenth of the voting population.

    With that being said, it cannot be denied that religion has played a very important role in America's political history. George Washington swore on the Bible when he was inaugurated as President, and almost every president since then has sworn on George Washington's Bible when taking the oath of office.
     
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  20. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    Where in the US? I don't think so...
     
  21. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Go to any U.S. suburb that is at least moderately rich.
     

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