IRCTC needs to upgrade

[mayfair]

People who want to travel will travel. Today a bus ride in a Volvo sleeper costs 2000 odd. When the demand is higher, they go up to 3000. I was just seeing that the HSR in china for 1000 mms costs $75. Approx 4k. But I save a whole day literally and a lot of other hassles.

CHR is heavily subsidised. A better comparison would be the Japanese Shinkansen- costs 14,500 yen one way for a 550 km trip between Osaka and Tokyo- this at 70-80% occupancy. In India, HSR will have to be operated by private firms- IR is simply incapable of doing so. With the cost of land aquisition and construction costs, I reckon it may be no less than 8-10 times the price of a premium Volvo ticket.

Plus, HSR works best with connecting the city centres, unlike airports. With our cities already choking, it will be nigh impossible to find suitable plot of land in the middle to build the HSR stations, or to build dedicated and fenced railway lines for these services. You put them outside the city and then you need to find a way to connect them to the city centre.

Thirdly, HSRs rely a great deal on hassle free travel- no security checks, just walk in and take the train. Not sure if it will work in India. A 16-20 coach high speed train with over a thousand passengers is simply too juicy a terror target to go lax on security and we'll have airport style checks.

 

[Yusuf]

Its not much a of a supply demand issue. They just need to upgrade their crappy servers

When I see wait list number 300 or regret while looking for a ticket and when I see that even buses are full, I am sure there is a demand supply gap

 

[Yusuf]

CHR is heavily subsidised. A better comparison would be the Japanese Shinkansen- costs 14,500 yen one way for a 550 km trip between Osaka and Tokyo- this at 70-80% occupancy. In India, HSR will have to be operated by private firms- IR is simply incapable of doing so. With the cost of land aquisition and construction costs, I reckon it may be no less than 8-10 times the price of a premium Volvo ticket.

Plus, HSR works best with connecting the city centres, unlike airports. With our cities already choking, it will be nigh impossible to find suitable plot of land in the middle to build the HSR stations, or to build dedicated and fenced railway lines for these services. You put them outside the city and then you need to find a way to connect them to the city centre.

Thirdly, HSRs rely a great deal on hassle free travel- no security checks, just walk in and take the train. Not sure if it will work in India. A 16-20 coach high speed train with over a thousand passengers is simply too juicy a terror target to go lax on security and we'll have airport style checks.

Japan with lack of land probably has greater acquisition cost per km.
PPP terms, we will be cheaper and it will be probably the price of 2AC or 1AC fare.

IR today itself is a big enough target with millions thronging the stations and each train carrying over 1500 passengers. Still there is no check.

 

[mayfair]

Japan with lack of land probably has greater acquisition cost per km.
PPP terms, we will be cheaper and it will be probably the price of 2AC or 1AC fare.

IR today itself is a big enough target with millions thronging the stations and each train carrying over 1500 passengers. Still there is no check.

I believe more than the construction costs, it is the operating costs that will be important. Shinkansen was first built way back in the 1960s and new lines have been added. The Osaka-Tokyo route (The Tokaido Shinkansen) has been operating for over 40 years and yet the costs have not come down- in a country with deflation.

In Indian context the operating costs will only go up and like you said the demand is there but whether those demanding folks (outside a few) will be willing to pay for the service is a different matter. Like you said, there is a 300 waiting list, yet many flights between the same destinations do not fly at full occupancy.

 

[Yusuf]

I believe more than the construction costs, it is the operating costs that will be important. Shinkansen was first built way back in the 1960s and new lines have been added. The Osaka-Tokyo route (The Tokaido Shinkansen) has been operating for over 40 years and yet the costs have not come down- in a country with deflation.

In Indian context the operating costs will only go up and like you said the demand is there but whether those demanding folks (outside a few) will be willing to pay for the service is a different matter. Like you said, there is a 300 waiting list, yet many flights between the same destinations do not fly at full occupancy.

I guess only a detailed feasibility report will give us an idea. But I really think it will be feasible.
Air fares are not that cheap anymore

 

[mayfair]

I guess only a detailed feasibility report will give us an idea. But I really think it will be feasible.
Air fares are not that cheap anymore

True. I would love to see HSRs btw Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad.

 

[Yusuf]

@mayfair,
Let me add that the Japanese have stagnated. India has millions to cater. Millions who will come out of poverty and millions who will move to middle class status and afford HSR. We build today so that it can cater for travel 10,15,20 years from now.

 

[mayfair]

@mayfair,
Let me add that the Japanese have stagnated. India has millions to cater. Millions who will come out of poverty and millions who will move to middle class status and afford HSR. We build today so that it can cater for travel 10,15,20 years from now.

I agree, but many flights going empty (while trains and buses are sold out) does indicate that the demand for HSR may depend a lot on fares and I believe HSR prices may be comparable to airfares (based on the trends overseas) and unless they provide point to point continuity, their attractiveness vis-a-vis air travel would be anyone's guess.

 

[Bangalorean]

The cost?

Economically viable?

What is more important- education, malnutrition, universal health care or HSR to suit a few?

We have not yet finished our High Speed Highways linking the country started by Gen Kahanduri and we talk of HSR!

The only way to do it is by being ruthless and inhuman like China.

Are we ready?

Please let us not start this discussion again. We are not Btit-urds to talk of such stuff. With this attitude, nothing will ever get done.

And anyway, I would prefer for IR and the babus to keep their hands off HSR. The GoI/GoStates can be minority stakeholders in the project, the work should be done by private consortia. The government should limit themselves to things like land acquisition.

 

[Bangalorean]

All feasibility reports that have been submitted so far say that it will be a success in certain corridors like BLR-CHE, MUM-PUNE-AMD, etc.

 

[LurkerBaba]

When I see wait list number 300 or regret while looking for a ticket and when I see that even buses are full, I am sure there is a demand supply gap

I thought the thread was about Tatkal booking

 

[VIP]

I thought the thread was about Tatkal booking

Ha bhia,sar mat khujao, tatkal me itni WL hoti hai......

 

[Victor Sierra]

"¨"¨"©Changing time from 8 to 10 wouldn't solve that problem.Here agents still do that.You have to give them your info.They have a lot of accounts running and can buy many tickets from different accounts. I suspect how many of tatkal tickets are actually bought by genuine customers.People start making queue outside ticket window since 3 A.M. morning.And still only max 5 persons can buy confirm tickets.

I was not talking about changing time. I'm talking about taking security measures on server, so that bots can't do it. Simplest example: Using Captcha codes.

I haven't booked ticket through Internet from a long time. As my all journeys are unplanned & I always have to rush to the place in a day or two.
If I have to leave for some place in an hour or next day, I take a ticket of General Class. Look for the TT, just to intimate him about my situation & later pay TT for AC or Sleeper Class wherever seat is available.

Waiting list people has to wait for there number to arrive. Also the commission or bribe is greater in upgrading the class.

There will be time where you won't be successful in the above situation. In that case, the worst situation you can also face is. I have spent around 25-26 hours, sitting cross legged with my 80 L Rucksack on my lap & a side-carry laptop bag on my back, on upper-berth of General Class. The seats of metal plate are :weep:.

The situation became worst when I noticed that many people standing there, are ready to take mine, if I leave.
I was kind of surviving with a 1 L water for 26 hours, with obviously no food. Thinking that if I eat something, I will have to go for Loo. I was even drinking water as low as I can. Though there were Namkeen Vendors but still I preferred not to eat.

So the motive was just to hold my seat (post) untill I reach my destination.
After getting out of train, forget about sitting, I was hardly able to walk.

But its the General Class where you will get the Aam Aadmi. Ever listen to What they talk about, specially when they all are finished with reading Newspaper.

 

[Yusuf]

I thought the thread was about Tatkal booking

Off course and how we can get tatkal tickets on HSR if it existed