INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Vorschlaghammer]

Noise means the muzzle break is doing it's job.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/07/muzzle-brakes-sound-test/

 

[Shaitan]

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[Kunal Biswas]

Some post are moved there as its related with small arms of India but not part of INSAS family : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/small-arms-of-india.50038/page-43

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This seems to be the most interesting to me ..

Many of those rusty AKMs used by RR for so long are actually RFI made MRF-91 ( 1991 ) and may not be Romanian AKM as previously identified, It always baffled me as many AKMs in service don`t have any kind of markings ..

 

[tharun]

There is a Austrian machine which churn out barrels at IOF, Some one visited there posted in great detail at Indian for guns fourm ..

-Do NATO and insas ammunition are same
-Why use a copper jacket over steel core what not just electroplate it? Will the electroplated steel core destroy the groves inside the barrel?

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

-Do NATO and insas ammunition are same
-Why use a copper jacket over steel core what not just electroplate it? Will the electroplated steel core destroy the groves inside the barrel?

They may already be "copper washed" ammo where the core is lead, jacket is soft steel and a thin layer of copper on top. No way of knowing unless the bullet is sectioned.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

This seems to be the most interesting to me ..

Many of those rusty AKMs used by RR for so long are actually RFI made MRF-91 ( 1991 ) and may not be Romanian AKM as previously identified, It always baffled me as many AKMs in service don`t have any kind of markings ..

Since the AK repeating mechanism pretty much lasts forever, on average how long does it take for a brand new chrome lined barrel riflings to get worn down ?

 

[tharun]

They may already be "copper washed" ammo where the core is lead, jacket is soft steel and a thin layer of copper on top. No way of knowing unless the bullet is sectioned.

Have you understood my question first?

 

[Kchontha]

These are the newest rifle supplied to a state police. Very similar to the one uses by Indian army in J&K for counter terrorism!? Experts in this forum please throw some light.

 

[tharun]

-Do NATO and insas ammunition are same
-Why use a copper jacket over steel core what not just electroplate it? Will the electroplated steel core destroy the groves inside the barrel?

@Kunal Biswas Bro please answer me....................

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Have you understood my question first?

Please elaborate on the question then. If you are asking whether steel jacketed bullets destroy rifling, I can't claim to have absolute knowledge on this since I don't have first hand experience with firearms, and maybe same for you. From what I've read on gun forums the general opinion is that it is readily possible to use more economic jackets, and even thin copper coating over soft steel would be enough to protect the riflings, and not cause excessive wear.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-exactly-is-copper-washed-ammo.292354/

But the opinion varies very much. Some say why take the risk of ruining a perfectly good barrel. At the end of the day the bigger picture may hold other variables, it just might be economical for a military to use cheap and slightly more harsh ammo with more frequent barrel change.

https://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Byu-BiMetal-Ammo-8

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Do our gun barrels are hammer forged?

There is a Austrian machine which churn out barrels at IOF, Some one visited there posted in great detail at Indian for guns fourm ..

That post said that the machine indeed makes cold hammer forged barrels. Something like this


Seems real quick, the blank just needs to be bored out, and the mandrel already has the reverse rifling impression and chamber dimensions.

 

[tharun]

Please elaborate on the question then. If you are asking whether steel jacketed bullets destroy rifling, I can't claim to have absolute knowledge on this since I don't have first hand experience with firearms, and maybe same for you. From what I've read on gun forums the general opinion is that it is readily possible to use more economic jackets, and even thin copper coating over soft steel would be enough to protect the riflings, and not cause excessive wear.

First thing question is not for you.There are people who can understand my question perfectly.
Second i'm not talking about steel jacket,i'm talking about steel core instead of lead core.

Why use a copper jacket over steel core what not just electroplate it? Will the electroplated steel core destroy the groves inside the barrel?

Read it carefully..
Copper jacket over steel core.

 

[tharun]

There is a Austrian machine which churn out barrels at IOF, Some one visited there posted in great detail at Indian for guns fourm ..

Looks like still not updated to new cold forging machines.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

First thing question is not for you.There are people who can understand my question perfectly.

The purpose of a forum is to have a public discussion on any subject, and posts in threads are just public statements, subject to scrutiny by any and all members.

Second i'm not talking about steel jacket,i'm talking about steel core instead of lead core.
Read it carefully..
Copper jacket over steel core.

In this context the crux of the matter is the thickness of the outermost coating. It isn't really important what is inside. It is very much possible to have either a solid metal bullet made of steel or zinc, or a jacket made of steel with lead stuffed in it. And since steel is less dense than lead, uniform solid metal bullets will weigh less than lead stuffed ones. The design decision depends on intended purpose, internal, external and terminal ballistics.

In this video is shown 5.56 Tulammo which are either copper "washed" or "plated" and uniform solid inside, also solid uniform bullet without any coating.

And USGI M80 ball 7.62x51 ammo intended for use in vietnam in the M14 rifle, manufactured in the 60s were all copper washed or plated, steel jacketed, lead stuffed/cored bullets.

So yeah it is my opinion that modern barrels with decent manufacturing methods and quality control is good for copper plated/washed ammo with whatever soft metal inside, as long as it meets your weight goal, for all practical and reasonable amount of shooting expected to be done.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

This is a lead cored, steel jacketed, copper plated bullet. Notice the miniscule thickness of the copper.

This is a Hornady 7.62x39 lead cored copper jacketed bullet. Notice the full thickness of the copper.

This is a chinese 7.62x54r steel cored, (little bit of lead used for seating), steel jacketed, copper plated bullet. Notice how the steel jacket has copper both on the outside and the inside, which means the jacket was plated before stuffing.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Russian steel cored 5.45x39 7N6 ammo.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The chart is old, Types of 5.56mm OFB produce, The SS109 was used during 1999 war and has less potential for killing ..

The core is steel and they are AP in nature ..

==================

From top, The third one is of OFB design ..

Its call BALL MK-1A ( steel core, AP nature ) and its standard, Tracer comes with marks ..

Metal boxes with handles which contain cardboard boxes each contain 20rnds ..

No special identification mark like a tip color to signify AP ? How does the soldier know if it's ball or ap or tracer ? Also how does ofb package ammo ? Is it like soviet/russian sealed spam cans inside wooden boxes, or something else like nato ammo tins with handles ?

So every round made by OFB is steel core?
And thank you for the replies.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

From top, The third one is of OFB design ..

Are all these OFB made ? the cores look machined and hardened, are these AP rounds ? Also why are the top 2 boxer primed and the bottom 2 berdan primed ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The second photo is for representation as i don`t have picture of round when i was peeling it ..

The core is steel and they are AP in nature ..

Are all these OFB made ? the cores look machined
and hardened, are these AP rounds ? Also why are the top 2 boxer primed and the bottom 2 berdan primed ?