INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

Kunal Biswas

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Navy Recognition's Day 3 / Part 1 video coverage at the Navy League’s Sea-Air-Space 2017 Exposition: International Presence & US Naval Technology showcased on the show floor. In this video we are focusing on:

» Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 30DEX Destroyer Escort from Japan
» MSI Defence Limited naval gun systems from the UK
» Austal Updated LCS Frigate Design with 16x Anti-Ship Missiles
» General Atomics EMALS and AAG for the US Navy and export (India, France, Japan & DCNS)

===============

Note from 6:50 ..

Vishal to receive EMALS and AAG. Done deal.
 

Vinod DX9

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Why not Rafale M from France? After F-35 it's better than F/A-18
 

Filtercoffee

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Buy more MIG 29k and wait for IAC-2 class and AMCA. The transition for MIG drivers to another platform is difficult, please refrain from believing the fly rate, since it's the same every where. :hail:
 
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Thrishul

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Buy more MIG 29k and wait for IAC-2 class and AMCA. The transition for MIG drivers to another platform is difficult, please refrain from believing the fly rate, since it's the same every where. :hail:
The Mig-29K is a nightmare for Naval Pilots, it's fly rate is worse than other fighters.
At a time they have about 35% of the fleet ready for operations, this is horrible.

Other fighter have a rate of 55% to 75%.
 

Filtercoffee

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The Mig-29K is a nightmare for Naval Pilots, it's fly rate is worse than other fighters.
At a time they have about 35% of the fleet ready for operations, this is horrible.

Other fighter have a rate of 55% to 75%.
Which would be ideal then? This was done to get every manufacturer on board - this is my opinion.
 

WolfPack86

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Which would be ideal then? This was done to get every manufacturer on board - this is my opinion.
Rafale M, F-18 Advanced Super Hornet and F-35C will be the best option. But i don't know whether Rafale M tested for Emals system. Mig 29k is stobar aircraft.
 
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Thrishul

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Which would be ideal then? This was done to get every manufacturer on board - this is my opinion.
Honestly we need to choose between the F-18 and the Rafale.
The IN needs 57 fighters while the IAF needs 90 with a total of 147 Fighters.
Go for Make in India since the numbers is more than enough to justify a line in India.

I would prefer the F-18 because of its engine the GE F-414 EPE.
The Tejas Mark-2 will use the GE F-414-INS6.
The AMCA is going to use a better version of the GE-414.

Just based on the commonality of spares between all these aircraft the supply chain saving would be in billions over the next 40 years.
Taking replacement engine into account.

IAF:
LCA Mk2: 200*2 = 400 engines
F-18: 90*2*2 = 360 engines
AMCA: 250*2*2 = 1000 engines
Total: 1760 engines for the IAF

IN
LCA Mk2: 50*2 = 100 engines
F-18: 57*2*2 = 228 engines
AMCA: 50*2*2 = 200 engines
Total: 528 engines

Grand total engine count is 2288 engines.
Think about the massive savings we could gain over the next 50 years by having commonality of spares for 2288 engines.

Though getting the IAF to work with the IN would be the toughest thing.
 
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Filtercoffee

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Honestly we need to choose between the F-18 and the Rafale.
The IN needs 57 fighters while the IAF needs 90 with a total of 147 Fighters.
Go for Make in India since the numbers is more than enough to justify a line in India.

I would prefer the F-18 because of its engine the GE F-414 EPE.
The Tejas Mark-2 will use the GE F-414-INS6.
The AMCA is going to use a better version of the GE-414.

Just based on the commonality of spares between all these aircraft the supply chain saving would be in billions over the next 40 years.
Taking replacement engine into account.

IAF:
LCA Mk2: 200*2 = 400 engines
F-18: 90*2*2 = 360 engines
AMCA: 250*2*2 = 1000 engines
Total: 1760 engines for the IAF

IN
LCA Mk2: 50*2 = 100 engines
F-18: 57*2*2 = 228 engines
AMCA: 50*2*2 = 200 engines
Total: 528 engines

Grand total engine count is 2288 engines.
Think about the massive savings we could gain over the next 50 years by having commonality of spares for 2288 engines.

Though getting the IAF to work with the IN would be the toughest thing.
If you take pilot training and an easy supply route, MIGs are easier. Snecma and DRDO are already working on Kaveri for MK 2, I think AMCA will be powered by a derivative of Kaveri and not the GE 414(uprated). As a stop gap for the AMCA arival; MIG 29k is my option. Comanality problems are nil if Kaveri is selected. Also the MIGs can also be converted to a CATOBAR configuration.
 

WolfPack86

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If you take pilot training and an easy supply route, MIGs are easier. Snecma and DRDO are already working on Kaveri for MK 2, I think AMCA will be powered by a derivative of Kaveri and not the GE 414(uprated). As a stop gap for the AMCA arival; MIG 29k is my option. Comanality problems are nil if Kaveri is selected. Also the MIGs can also be converted to a CATOBAR configuration.
MIG 29K is stobar aircraft. We are not talking about stobar aircraft carrier. We are talking about INS Vishal Nuclear aircraft carrier with Emals system. Only aircraft available is Rafale M, F-18 Advanced Super Hornet and F-35C. MIG 29K is not Emals capable.
 

Filtercoffee

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MIG 29K is stobar aircraft. We are not talking about stobar aircraft carrier. We are talking about INS Vishal Nuclear aircraft carrier with Emals system. Only aircraft available is Rafale M, F-18 Advanced Super Hornet and F-35C. MIG 29K is not Emals capable.
I was speaking about the IAC-1 series, for the IAC-2 series, AMCA and FGFA are better suited. Still if the MIGs choose, they can have EMALS capability.
 

Thrishul

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If you take pilot training and an easy supply route, MIGs are easier. Snecma and DRDO are already working on Kaveri for MK 2, I think AMCA will be powered by a derivative of Kaveri and not the GE 414(uprated). As a stop gap for the AMCA arival; MIG 29k is my option. Comanality problems are nil if Kaveri is selected. Also the MIGs can also be converted to a CATOBAR configuration.
The IN really does not want anymore Mig's.
"In 2016 India's national auditor CAG issued a report on the contract criticising the fighters for problems with engines and electronic control systems which result in "serviceability" of the airplanes "varying between 16 per cent and 39 per cent" meaning that out of fleet 10 fighters only 3 are normally available for operations at given time while the rest is being repaired."

What's the use of having fighters that do not fly.
 

Filtercoffee

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The IN really does not want anymore Mig's.
"In 2016 India's national auditor CAG issued a report on the contract criticising the fighters for problems with engines and electronic control systems which result in "serviceability" of the airplanes "varying between 16 per cent and 39 per cent" meaning that out of fleet 10 fighters only 3 are normally available for operations at given time while the rest is being repaired."

What's the use of having fighters that do not fly.
Well It could be an internal programme push for a another type. I just feel given the time involved for the STOBAR carriers, it would be wise to stay with our current programmes and the operational fleet.
 

Hardi

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China launches 1st domestically-made aircraft carrier

PANews BT_P-d6ba996d-1d13-4665-af1f-c3cc49798691_I1.jpg


China has launched its first aircraft carrier built entirely on its own, in a demonstration of the growing technical sophistication of its defense industries and determination to safeguard its maritime territorial claims and crucial trade routes.

The 50,000-ton carrier was towed from its dockyard just after 9 a.m. Wednesday following a ceremony in the northern port city of Dalian, where its predecessor, the Soviet-built Liaoning, also underwent extensive refurbishing before being commissioned in 2012, the Ministry of National Defense said.

Development of the new carrier began in 2013 and construction in late 2015. It's expected to be formally commissioned sometime before 2020, after sea trials and the arrival of its full air complement.

Vice chairman of China's Central Military Commission and Communist Party Central Committee member Fan Changlong presided over the launch, which came just three days after the anniversary of the People's Liberation Army Navy's symbolic founding in 1949.

Also attending was navy commander Vice Adm. Shen Jinlong, a former commander of the South Sea Fleet responsible for defending China's claim to virtually the entire South China Sea.

Reports of the launch said a bottle of champagne was broken across the ship's bow and other craft in the port sounded their horns in celebration.

Like the 60,000-ton Liaoning, which was purchased from the Ukraine, the new carrier is based on the Soviet Kuznetsov class design, with a ski jump-style deck for taking off and a conventional oil-fueled steam turbine power plant. That limits the weight of payloads its planes can carry, its speed and the amount of time it can spend at sea relative to American nuclear-powered carriers.

The main hull of the new carrier has been completed and its power supply put into place. Next up are mooring tests and the debugging of its electronic systems, the Defense Ministry said.

China is believed to be planning to build at least two and possibly as many as four additional carriers, with one of them, the Type 002, reported to be already under construction at a shipyard outside Shanghai. They are expected to be closer in size to the U.S. Navy's nuclear-powered 100,000-ton Nimitz class ships, with flat flight decks and catapults to allow planes to launch with more bombs and fuel aboard.

Along with their role in protecting China's maritime interests, Chinese naval strategists see the carrier program as "about having naval power commensurate with China's international status, to impress both external and domestic audiences," said Michael Chase, an expert on the Chinese military at U.S. think tank the RAND Corporation.

The new carrier "is likely to be seen as further evidence of China's desire to become the most powerful and influential country in the region," Chase said. That will be especially worrying to Indian security analysts who are already concerned about Beijing's ambitions in the Indian Ocean, he said.

India, along with Japan and Taiwan which also view Chinese carriers as threats, will likely respond by building new submarines and anti-ship missiles, said Ian Easton, a research Fellow at The Project 2049 Institute in Arlington, Virginia.

China's "expansionist behavior in the South China Sea and its aggressive efforts to undermine the security of Taiwan and Japan, in particular, have translated into a situation where few countries now trust that Beijing has benign motives," Easton said.

China claims Taiwan as its own territory to be brought under control by force if necessary, and was seen as advertising that threat when it sailed the Liaoning through the Taiwan Strait earlier this year.

According to Chinese reports, the new, as yet unnamed, carrier will carry 24 Shenyang J-15 fighters, based on the Russian Sukhoi Su-33, along with 12 helicopters for anti-submarine warfare, airborne early warning and rescue operations. That compares to 85-90 fixed wing aircraft and helicopters carried by a Nimitz-class carrier.

The new carrier is part of an ambitious expansion of the Chinese navy, which is projected to have a total of 265-273 warships, submarines and logistics vessels by 2020, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Naval Analysis. That compares with 275 deployable battle force ships presently in the U.S. Navy, China's primary rival in the Asia Pacific.

The U.S. operates 10 aircraft carriers, has 62 destroyers to China's 32, and 75 submarines to China's 68. The U.S. Navy has 323,000 personnel to China's 235,000.

China has offered little information about the roles it expects its carriers to play, although its planning appears to be evolving as it gains more experience. The Liaoning was initially touted mainly as an experimental and training platform, but in December was declared to be combat-ready and has taken part in live-firing exercises in the South China Sea, where tensions have risen over China's construction of man-made islands complete with airstrips and military structures.
Source: ABC news

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42354177 - 25_04_2017 - easecond26_0.jpg
 

WolfPack86

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EMALS and AAG for INS Vishal

Some days ago one sources indicated that India's future nuclear powered INS Vishal likely to get EMALS and AAG.
We couldn't post without confirming. But today, Navy Recognition posted that that General Atomics received export approval for EMALS and AAG to the Indian Navy.

The Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is designed to replace steam catapult system currently used on U.S. Navy aircraft carriers. Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) is the first carrier to use EMALS.

Due to its flexible architecture, the electromagnetic aircraft launch system can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.The electric motor-based Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) system provides for aircraft deceleration during aircraft carrier recovery operations.

AAG allows for arrestment of a broad range of aircraft, reducing manning and maintenance, and provides higher reliability and safety margins. AAG's design uses simple, proven energy-absorbing water turbines coupled to a large induction motor for fine control of the arresting forces.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

WolfPack86

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Future Indian Navy and French Navy Aircraft Carriers Likely to be Fitted with EMALS & AAG

During the Navy League's Sea-Air-Space 2017 exposition held recently near Washington D.C., General Atomics was showcasing its Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) and Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) for aircraft carriers. Navy Recognition learned during the show that General Atomics received export approval for EMALS and AAG to the Indian Navy. The Brazilian Navy, French Navy and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force have also shown interest in those technologies according the the company.

Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) was fitted first onboard head of class USS Gerald R. Ford. Picture: General Atomics


The Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is designed to replace steam catapult system currently used on U.S. Navy aircraft carriers. Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) is the first carrier to use EMALS. Due to its flexible architecture, the electromagnetic aircraft launch system can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.

The electric motor-based Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) system provides for aircraft deceleration during aircraft carrier recovery operations. AAG allows for arrestment of a broad range of aircraft, reducing manning and maintenance, and provides higher reliability and safety margins. AAG's design uses simple, proven energy-absorbing water turbines coupled to a large induction motor for fine control of the arresting forces.

General Atomics has in talks with India regarding export of both technologies for the Indian Navy IAC-2 program. The "indigenous aircraft carrier number 2" program is an Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) project to build a 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy. In July 2015, a Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to at least four companies: BAE Systems, DCNS, Lockheed Maritn and Rosoboronexport. EMALS and AAG would likely be fitted on the American, French and British (if CATOBAR configuration is retained) carrier designs.

IAC-2 would then be the first Indian Navy aircraft carrier fitted with catapults and arresting gear, allowing for the launch and recovery of heavier aircraft including AWACS (Hawkeye).

General Atomics explained to us that both technologies are platform independent: AAG and EMALS will work on large or smaller carriers, nuclear or conventionally powered.

DCNS Evolved Aircraft Carrier (DEAC).

During Euronaval 2016, General Atomics and DCNS had discussions about EMALS and AAG for both the future French Navy (Marine Nationale) needs and export prospects of DCNS aircraft carrier design. In addition, we learned that DCNS CEO Hervé Guillou would visit General Atomics in San Diego this summer. During Sea-Air-Space 2017, Rear Admiral Chaineau, in charge of French Navy future programs, was at the head of a delegation which was briefed by General Atomics on EMALS and AAG.

General Atomics excepts the next step will be discussions between the French government and the US government about exportability, but with India getting cleared, export approval should not be an issue for France.

France is in the middle of elections right now, however the two candidates remaining for the second turn, Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen, have both voiced their interest in acquiring a second aircraft carrier or aircraft carriers to replace the Charles de Gaulle:

According to La Cordeliere, Emmanuel Macron spoke of the rapid launch of studies on a new aircraft carrier so that it would be ready before Charles de Gaulle decommissioning by 2040. According to her program, Marine Le Pen promises to start building a second aircraft carrier called Richelieu, essential to the permanence at sea of the French carrier strike group.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...riers-likely-to-be-fitted-with-emals-aag.html
 

WolfPack86

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Future Indian Navy Aircraft Carriers Likely to be Fitted with EMALS & AAG
During the Navy League's Sea-Air-Space 2017 exposition held recently near Washington D.C., General Atomics was showcasing its Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) and Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) for aircraft carriers.

Navy Recognition learned during the show that General Atomics received export approval for EMALS and AAG to the Indian Navy. The Brazilian Navy, French Navy and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force have also shown interest in those technologies according the the company.

The Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is designed to replace steam catapult system currently used on U.S. Navy aircraft carriers. Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) is the first carrier to use EMALS. Due to its flexible architecture, the electromagnetic aircraft launch system can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.

The electric motor-based Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) system provides for aircraft deceleration during aircraft carrier recovery operations. AAG allows for arrestment of a broad range of aircraft, reducing manning and maintenance, and provides higher reliability and safety margins. AAG's design uses simple, proven energy-absorbing water turbines coupled to a large induction motor for fine control of the arresting forces.

General Atomics has in talks with India regarding export of both technologies for the Indian Navy IAC-2 program. The "indigenous aircraft carrier number 2" program is an Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) project to build a 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy. In July 2015, a Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to at least four companies: BAE Systems, DCNS, Lockheed Maritn and Rosoboronexport. EMALS and AAG would likely be fitted on the American, French and British (if CATOBAR configuration is retained) carrier designs.

IAC-2 would then be the first Indian Navy aircraft carrier fitted with catapults and arresting gear, allowing for the launch and recovery of heavier aircraft including AWACS (Hawkeye).

General Atomics explained to us that both technologies are platform independent: AAG and EMALS will work on large or smaller carriers, nuclear or conventionally powered.

During Euronaval 2016, General Atomics and DCNS had discussions about EMALS and AAG for both the future French Navy (Marine Nationale) needs and export prospects of DCNS aircraft carrier design. In addition, we learned that DCNS CEO Hervé Guillou would visit General Atomics in San Diego this summer. During Sea-Air-Space 2017, Rear Admiral Chaineau, in charge of French Navy future programs, was at the head of a delegation which was briefed by General Atomics on EMALS and AAG.

General Atomics excepts the next step will be discussions between the French government and the US government about exportability, but with India getting cleared, export approval should not be an issue for France.

France is in the middle of elections right now, however the two candidates remaining for the second turn, Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen, have both voiced their interest in acquiring a second aircraft carrier or aircraft carriers to replace the Charles de Gaulle:

According to La Cordeliere, Emmanuel Macron spoke of the rapid launch of studies on a new aircraft carrier so that it would be ready before Charles de Gaulle decommissioning by 2040. According to her program, Marine Le Pen promises to start building a second aircraft carrier called Richelieu, essential to the permanence at sea of the French carrier strike group.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/F...Likely-to-be-Fitted-with-EMALS-and-AAG-251788
 

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