INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by nitesh, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Russians want another $700 mn for Gorshkov

    Russians want another $700 mn for Gorshkov

    New Delhi: Just as India grudgingly prepared itself to re-negotiate with Russia on its demand to more than double the original cost for aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, Moscow has conveyed another shocker to New Delhi that the deal will cost another $700 million.

    This makes the deal worth $2.9 billion, which is almost thrice the original amount agreed upon when the agreement was first reached on January 29, 2004 by the NDA Government for $974 million. While India did expect cost-escalation to the tune of $350-400 million in the course of refurbishing the old ship, Russia stunned India by proposing a $1.2 billion hike in November 2007 that pushed up the cost to $2.2 billion.

    It took several rounds of official-level talks and then the visit by Defence Minister A K Antony to Moscow for the UPA government to consider Russia’s request. Finally, the Cabinet Committee on Security gave its approval in December, around the time Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was visiting India, to renegotiate the Gorshkov deal in view of the cost escalation.

    However, India has now been informed that on February 10, Medvedev signed on a final deal amount of $2.9 billion after “thorough analysis” of the refurbishing and trial costs. This was conveyed by a Russian team that’s here for talks on the deal. It’s headed by Deputy Minister in-charge of Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Alexander Fomin and includes Nikolai Kalistratov, Director General of Sevmarsh Shipyard where the Gorshkov is being refurbished.

    The revised offer has surprised the Indian delegation stunned as it was expecting to find some “middle ground” to the earlier proposal made by Moscow. India has already paid $500 million as per terms of the initial contract. The Russian delegation has said that regardless of the outcome of this round of negotiations, Sevmarsh wants an immediate payment of $190 million for the work that’s underway.

    While this wavering by Russia could set off a diplomatic row, Moscow is firm that it will meet the delivery deadline of 2012. The first of the series of trials, the Russian team has said, would start next year. However, the trials alone have been estimated at $500 million which could increase depending on prevalent Oil costs.

    Sources said Russia wants to ensure it bears absolute no cost in the entire deal. Admiral Gorshkov, which has not sailed much while in active service after it caught fire, needs to be completely refurbished. While India is building its own indigenous aircraft carrier, the progress has been slow and the date of completion has now been pushed to 2014-15.

    2004-’09: A 5-YEAR RUSSIAN DRAMA

    Jan 2004: Original deal signed by NDA Government to purchase the carrier and complement of MiG 29 K fighters for $974 mn.

    April 2007: Russia says cannot deliver on time, also need to increase price as shipbuilders underestimated amount of work required

    Nov 2007: Russia says the Gorshkov will cost India another $1.2 bn

    Feb 2008: A team headed by the Defence Secretary inspects the Gorshkov

    May 2008: India makes an advance payment of $250 mn, pending price re-negotiations

    June 2008: Russia puts extra workers on the job, says more advance payments needed

    Dec 2008: CCS gives approval to re negotiate contract. By now, India has paid $500 mn extra

    Jan-Feb 2009: Final round of negotiations on
     
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  3. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Russia Seeks USD 2.9 billion as Final Amount for INS Vikramaditya

    Press Trust of India has reported that Russia is seeking an additional USD 700 million for the refitting, repairs and delivery of INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier.

    Quoting Defense Ministry sources here are excerpts from the PTI report:

    -- Russia is seeking an additional USD 700 million from India for the repair and refit works it is carrying out in Sevmash Shipyard

    -- Russian decision to seek USD 700 million dollars was conveyed to India on February 10 during the bilateral meeting to re-negotiate the Russian demand for additional payment for the 44,500-tonne warship

    -- Sevmash Shipyard was also stressing on an immediate release of USD 190 million for continuing the repair work

    -- USD 700 million demand was over and above the additional INR 1.2 billion the Russians were already demanding for the warship bought by India in 2004 for USD 974 million

    -- Russia would agree on a final price of USD 2.9 billion

    http://www.india-defence.com/reports/4240
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    we are giving them the price they want since we have come this far, but when will they deliver? delays more money and repeat.
     
  5. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    sir the whole project was a statistical and management failure on the part of the russians but things now seems to look up.
     
  6. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    ok guys can you think of an alternative angel here..........

    What are the chances that the "demand" is actually related to this

    Russia likely to lease 'Shchuka-B' class nuke subs to India-Europe-World-The Times of India

    Russia likely to lease 'Shchuka-B' class nuke subs to India
    15 Dec 2008, 1916 hrs IST, PTI


    MOSCOW: Russia could lease 'several' 'Shchuka-B' class nuclear attack submarines to India in coming years, a top official here said though the delivery of the first of the two nuke subs reportedly contracted by India is far behind schedule.

    At the same time, the official had ruled out any plans by Moscow to strike similar deals with China.

    "Yes, there is a real possibility of leasing for ten years several of our nuclear powered multi-role submarines of Project 971 of 'Shchuka-B' class," the Director of Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) Mikhail Dmitriyev was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS.

    The Russian offer comes as Indian Navy has formulated a 20 year plan to produce indigenously 24 conventional submarines. New Delhi had also contracted for two nuclear submarines from Moscow, but navy has projected that in the next 10 years India would need to acquire or build another 10-12 nuclear subs.

    These nuclear submarines would be similar to the 'Nerpa' class, which was involved in an accident in November during final sea trials in Sea of Japan.

    "This possibility can materialise in the coming years," he added.

    Dmitriyev also denied that Moscow was negotiating supply of nuclear submarines to China.

    "The question of supply of our multi role nuclear submarines to China does not exist, as unlike India, China never asked for them. That's why we never negotiated with China on their lease or sale," Dmitriyev said.

    "This issue was also not raised at the Russian-Chinese Intergovernmental Commission session on December 11 in Beijing," he said.
     
  7. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    sir right now the russians are watching the progress of akula the nuclear sub which underwent the trajic accident,during sea trials , the indians have asked for an exytended trial after that if still india deems it unfit for use other nuclear subs could be offer but that is not earlier than late 2010,only then will the new subs be ready to undergo trials.
    for now it seems everything is stagnant but the russians will be ready to offer anything now that india is interesred more in western systems.

    thnx
     
  8. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    My point is as the news item says two are on offer and more can be added it is well known fact that previously Russians had never acknowledged that Akula is offered to india it was under wraps. Similarly in the name of hiking Adm Gorshakov price there might be more under offer. Just my thought.
     
  9. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    you might be right sir but exact details at this point of time is difficult to even guess,but aboutnot acknowledging akula before was to downplay the whole issue as the world especially our neighbours would raise a big hue and cry in the world forum.

    thnks
     
  10. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Exactly my point so this time also could be the same reason show the cost as high priced carrier and then wrap up the deal. Well that's just a possibility
     
  11. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    if that is the case sir then cheers to indian diplomacy they are doing great,time for a:drink:
     
  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Quoting an interesting comment from Sengupta's blog

     
    ejazr likes this.
  13. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Aircraft carrier to save $ 1 billion

    Talks to salvage a contract for the supply of India's aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» (former «Admiral Gorshkov») are close to completion

    According to «Vedomosti» source in the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), a solution to the problem of additional payments for finalizing the aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» possible in May, for which the Indian side should hold a few more rounds of price negotiations. According to him, this amount is $ 1 billion. While the Indian media reported last year on a figure of $ 2 billion, which asked the Russian side, a senior official of one of the national authorities involved in the negotiations with India, said that this amount is considerably less. . In the embassy of India to comment on talks with Russia did not. At the end of last year, the Government of India agreed that the ship needed for finalizing the additional costs, and authorized to conduct negotiations on this issue with Russia.

    The contract for a radical modernization «Gorshkova» for Indian Navy was back in 2004, and then work with the ship was estimated at $ 650 million from the aircraft carrier for customer delivery in 2008. However, in the works at Severodvinsk «Sevmashpredpriyatii» revealed that the amount of work much more and require additional funding and delivery of the ship was moved.

    For two years now, India does not finance these activities, but they are ongoing - the readiness of the ship is now more than 50%, said the representative of «Sevmashpredpriyatiya» Michael Novozhilov. Comment amount required payments under the contract for the company refused.

    The sum of $ 1 billion looks much more realistic than the amount of $ 2 billion, said an expert Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, Konstantin Makiyenko. This is the most difficult from a technical point of view the contract in the history of military-technical cooperation between Russia and India and both sides are interested in having to complete the project successfully, he says, so the chance of compromise on the price in a short time is very high. If the negotiations take, then the state has plans to further support the strategically important «Sevmashpredpriyatiya» (this is the only current manufacturer of nuclear submarines in Russia). According to a source at USC, last year for the continuation of work on «Gorshkova» Plant received credit Vnesheconombank of 6 billion rubles. And this year working on the idea doinvestirovaniya in capital 12 billion rubles. budgetary funds.

    http://www.vedomosti.ru/newspaper/article.shtml?2009/02/24/183038
    Translated by google.

    This is certainly a different news from what we are hearing ?
     
  14. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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  15. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    the above post by singhji is a word by word translation of the original russian news, in the link.
    i already spoke with singhji regarding the credibility of this news,vedemosti is a very credible source.

    from this news it seems that something more than what we are seeing and hearing is going on between the 2 parties involved, my guess would be as good as yours.
     
  16. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Indian Navy isnt happy about VIkramaditya, didnt want her in the first place and not to mention, it is 2.9 billion in total!Indian NAvy isnt happy, NO ONE is! It was done to help the Russians!
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    this whole deal was a waste of time and money, India should have paid a little more and received a new one on time and without the negative sentiment created, (from other sources)
     
  18. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    a new carrier would not cost less than 5 billion that too not in the same class but quite small, this deal also included the akula nuclear sub linked with it so its not the carrier alone its a mega package thats why india couldnt refuse.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    akula's are also on hold, russians haven't delivered anything yet, this whole deal took a turn for the worst and kept getting worst. This carrier also has high maintenance costs too and our navy spent a lot of time training for the akulas and then having to wait and possibly retrain?
     
  20. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually NO!
    I am bit involved in this, so let me just say Just like Yelsten asked HD Deve Gowda to help out Sukhoi(which worked out very well for us), he also asked to help Sevmash! You have no clue about who much a new carrier will cost along with its fittings, American CVN 76, cost only 5 billion fully fitted out!
    And the Gorshkov is not a Nimitz. As much as I love the Russians, Indians have helped out the Russians in the past 2 decades more than anybody else!
     
  21. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    adux sir any news on the nuclear sub after the accident on the akula, what is india going to do in this matter.?

    thanks sir at last we can get the right info rather than having a blind guess can you give us any more info on the real deal?
    would be highly appreciated.

    thnx
     

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