Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

[p2prada]

deleted..........

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Let us not veer to the irrelevant of castes and Jinnah, having the best forces, and like drivel et al.

Look at history since Pakistan came into being and the wars fought,

Sorry, keeping aside propaganda, you don't know what Pakistan of Quaid-e-Azam means. I am sure if you will come across the truth, which is seldom projected, New Delhi would support idea of Pakistan from inner core of its heart. One can recall that people of Mumbai and Hyderabad requested Quaid-e-Azam to send Pakistani forces for takeover as whole population is with Pakistan but Quaid delivered a speech in which he asked the citizens of Mumbai and Hyderabad to remain loyal with Indian government. Pakistan has no expansionist designs and desires that Indian Muslims should be loyal to their motherland. It was Quaid-e-Azam who presented an idea of joint defence of Indian Ocean to India.

Most of the Surface Combatant Ships of of PN are only good to engage pirates with only F-22p not being 2nd hand and have respectable Air Defence Capability (i am being moderate here, 8 SAM's with 18km Range. Also PN only have 3 "Good" Subs in Agosta 90B.

Please refresh your information about PN. You will get surprises. By the way IN has been assigned good job to engage pirates. No doubt, after all, someone has to protect US MVs.

If automation is wrong and lack of employment thus caused of human resources, should we go back to the time of rowboats and sails?

No, it is not so"¦ we should have the best of the best but that need to be indigenous. Pakistan had been front man player since early 1950ies. Stores are dump with brand new equipments for which backup was not provided. Since 1998, Washington refused to provide spares of F-16 on the pretext of nuclear explosions. It took full two years to develop indigenous spares. The foreign nations will never sell us the advance versions and by the time major overhauling is required, these becomes obsolete. You are well aware of present problems being faced by IN. Even you cannot discuss them at an open forum. As already mentioned our strength is our manpower, You are doing good at deep sea, Port Blair projects as well as at Andaman and Nicobar. Let's hope it does come out to be paper projects. We should have confidence in over selves, why would would develop rowboats and sails when even at the times of Emperor Aurengzeb Alamgir, India had one of the strongest Navy that twice destroyed the British fleets.

Lady, the reason for their comment is their navy had destroyed a third of your naval force in 1971 war.

There is a sentence from (Pakistan Navy) wiki for you.....

'According to one Pakistan scholar, Tariq Ali, the Pakistan Navy lost a third of its force in the war.'

Someone must have misguided about 1971 War but of course during this war Indian side fought bravely. There were other wars in 1948, 1965 and at Kargil. I believe war is necessary for peace but neighbours do not need to fight with each other"¦ the simply diminish themselves. Ask you retired Navy officers who participated in 1971 war. They are the witness that although Pakistan lost the war but PN's performance was much mush better than India. guess how many Indian ships were destroyed in 1971?

What gap you are talking about?

We are already have blue water capability and not with coastal ship!

And Pakistan?

Eyewash like Cold Start Doctrine (CSD). IN has not enough warships to support the exercise and she uses Coast Guard and other boats to fill the gap. But the state of Pakistan is also not different.

The point is that in which direction you are dragging me. I was talking about joint defence of Indian Ocean and freeing our region from foreign intruders.
There can always be a fresh begining...

 

[Bheeshma]

The Pathetic navy has absolutely no role to play in the INDIAN OCEAN. It simply does not have the capability and will continue to be a coastal force for a the foreseeable future. Te only role PN has ever undertaken in the IOR is Anti Piracy patrol as a part of CTF-150 because unlike India they do not have to capability to mount such patrols on their own and need NATO support for it.

Stop worrying about IOR's defence. It is beyond pakistan's capability. A useless country founded by the british lap dog djinnah and his ilk. If pakistan can control its own air-space that would be a massive achievement. The only vermins who need to be cleared of IOR would be your pay masters the chinese. IN and USN will ensure that happens.

I suggest you crawl back to the net and read up on the capabilities of IN against the coastal fishing force that is PN. IN simply has no use for a rag tag fishing crew like PN.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

The Pathetic navy has absolutely no role to play in the INDIAN OCEAN. It simply does not have the capability and will continue to be a coastal force for a the foreseeable future. Te only role PN has ever undertaken in the IOR is Anti Piracy patrol as a part of CTF-150 because unlike India they do not have to capability to mount such patrols on their own and need NATO support for it.

Stop worrying about IOR's defence. It is beyond pakistan's capability. A useless country founded by the british lap dog djinnah and his ilk. If pakistan can control its own air-space that would be a massive achievement. The only vermins who need to be cleared of IOR would be your pay masters the chinese. IN and USN will ensure that happens.

We seems to be educated people. Whatever you say I will never abuse Indian leaders. I have always praised Ghandhi Jee, Rabindranath Tagore, Abul Kalam Azad and others. I have my doubts that you are not Indian but a westerner.

I hope you have read the article "...a high level meeting was held at New Delhi, which was attended by Indian Defence Minister, A K Antony, National Security Advisor, Shivshanhar Memon, Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma and the three Service chiefs. Operational situation along the Line of Control (LoC) and Line of Actual Control (LAC) were discussed in detail, in which dissatisfaction over state of alertness was expressed and new strategy regarding winter vacated posts was discussed. General Bikram Singh recommended a complete overall of mutation of wars due to its aging. It was pointed out that Indian Army's entire armour fleet is lacking necessary ammunition to check the enemy while whole of the Air Defence is obsolete and requires major changes. Indian Air Force has already concentrated on its bases at Jodhpur and Halwara, etc. by deploying additional squadrons of Sukhois but during the conference concern was expressed over balance of air power with regard to Pakistan Air Force deployment of F-16s and Chinese JF-17 'Thunder' jets to counter Indian threats."
The point is why are are making comparisons. Haven't we learnt from the intrusion of British who came here in the guise of traders. Please don't tell me that IN is in Bahrain and Oman on holiday adventure. Interest of US is being served for only couple of million dollars, which will be taken back by ruining the Indian economy. We need to open our eyes. Joints Navy exercises are good enough but secret deals which took IN to Africa and Middle East in the chase of pirates is strange. Indian warships on the role of permanent chasing Somali insurgent's boats...sound funny.

 

[Bheeshma]

We really don't care what the pakis think of Nehru or Gandhi. The world views Tagore, Gandhi and Nehru in a different light that jinnah and the nondescript coterie that created pakistan.

Please stop deluding yourself that the JF-17 (even chinese don't want it) or the US supplied (with critical access code and tech with held) F-16's are any challenge to IN or IAF. The reality has dawned to PAF/PA and PN officials who understand that they simply cannot compete with IA/IN or IAF. In less than a decades time they can again compete with ANA and its air wing.

Since you have no idea what you are talking about please read through IN's area of interest. It has been stated over and over again that IN being a blue water navy unlike the coastal force (this is not an insult but a fact) PN, considers entire IOR from horn of africa (red sea) to Malacca strait as its region of interest. In addition it does take joint operations and patrols with allies (like USN (malabar), Russian (Indra) French Navy (Varuna), Royal Navy (Konkan) , Singapore Navy (Sindex) and others) in Mediterranean and pacific ocean. This has been going on for a while and since PN has no capability to deploy in these areas as you rightly said comparison is meaningless.

Secondly IN has basing rights in oman and has been in seychelles ,mauritius and mozambique since the 90's. What secret pact are the conspiracy theorists of pakistan digging up now? Lets face the facts IN does not consider USN a threat or Royal navy or the french. But a rabid islamic pakistan which has been training and arming taliban, somalian pirates and is capable of providing nuclear weapons to other radical islamic groups is a bigger threat in the minds of rational people.

Unlike pakistan which since its creation has been a rental whore for the british then US and now china, India has always followed its own interest first. If you are stupid enough not to see this then you are either too stupid for an intelligent conversation or simply unwilling to see the reality.

Good luck with your meaning less dreams.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Very courageous of you that you are continuously deleting my comments without asserting any reason and projecting only your point of view. Do you think this is the way to project you point of view? No doubt, you have the administrative control of this forum. Please forgive me to say that dark justice of your is indicative that God forbid, if your kind of person are inducted in future Blue Water Navy or IOR force, what would be the results. Please try to survive on merit and not on propaganda. I repeat, I know many Indian... some of them are my very good friends of mine.... but you cant be Indian and I expect you to be westerner, who has no regard to justice.
I protest not to delete the facts presented by me without asserting valid reasons.

 

[LurkerBaba]

No one has deleted your posts. They were simply moved here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ervention-indian-subcontinent.html#post561725

 

[panduranghari]

The point is that in which direction you are dragging me. I was talking about joint defence of Indian Ocean and freeing our region from foreign intruders.
There can always be a fresh begining...

What makes you think India cannot do that on its own?

And what fresh beginning?
Can you comment on this - New beginning??

 

[Bushra Aziz]

What makes you think India cannot do that on its own?

And what fresh beginning?
Can you comment on this - New beginning??

Sort of ongoing Indo-Pakistan talks in Islamabad. We should keep on talking, leaving no room for communication gap.

 

[Bheeshma]

IN strategy to maintain peace in IOR does not include PN as anything other than enemy. It is safe to assume that PN has dealing with somalian pirates and AQ and treat them the same.

Somali pirates' Pakistan link confirmed - Times Of India

India finds proof of Pakistan training Somali pirates - Times Of India

 

[Bushra Aziz]

IN strategy to maintain peace in IOR does not include PN as anything other than enemy. It is safe to assume that PN has dealing with somalian pirates and AQ and treat them the same.

Somali pirates' Pakistan link confirmed - Times Of India

India finds proof of Pakistan training Somali pirates - Times Of India

Hats off to your intelligence apparatus. They always reach the exact point even no one start thinking about it. Do you know how much Pakistan had to pay to pirates to free her nationals???

 

[Bheeshma]

Does it matter if warms the pockets of navy officials and politicians?

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Does it matter if warms the pockets of navy officials and politicians?

It is your hard earned taxes. For them it is fun going after dummy targets..... The best thing is that it involve no risks at all.

 

[Blackwater]

It is your hard earned taxes. For them it is fun going after dummy targets..... The best thing is that it involve no risks at all.

for that TTP has to attack you and UN has to take nukes from u.rest will be history

 

[Bheeshma]

Who the hell pays taxes in pakistan??? Its the money through begging around the world.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Who the hell pays taxes in pakistan??? Its the money through begging around the world.

Please do not rely on propaganda. Some corrupt elements are trying each time to depict a gloomy picture so that no one can blame them for lack of commitment, completion of development schemes and corruption. It is best way to keep the masses at a distance from accountability of their masters. You would be surprised to know that first budget of Pakistan was surplus with a lot of development schemes. It is important to mention here that at that time Pakistan did not borrow a single penny from anyone.More so, borrowing money as soft loans from foreign organizations and rescheduling loans does not account to begging.

 

[Bheeshma]

Yes please do not believe in propaganda. PN has no capability to patrol the Indian ocean. They have hitched their wagon to the CTF-150 and 151 and are gladly doing their paymaster USN's bidding by patrolling the persian gulf. Talk about rental forces. the pakistani armed forces are only good to take on the unarmed balochis or tribal pakhtoons. Lets keep the PN doing what it does best , patrolling the shores of karachi.

Pakistan economy is in tatters are are running around begging for aid to build the basha dam. How is that going? Begging, soft loan its all the same for pakistan isn't it. Lets not discuss nonsensical issues like PN and its capability or rather lack of in Indian navy thread.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Yes please do not believe in propaganda. PN has no capability to patrol the Indian ocean. They have hitched their wagon to the CTF-150 and 151 and are gladly doing their paymaster USN's bidding by patrolling the persian gulf. Talk about rental forces. the pakistani armed forces are only good to take on the unarmed balochis or tribal pakhtoons. Lets keep the PN doing what it does best , patrolling the shores of karachi.

Pakistan economy is in tatters are are running around begging for aid to build the basha dam. How is that going? Begging, soft loan its all the same for pakistan isn't it. Lets not discuss nonsensical issues like PN and its capability or rather lack of in Indian navy thread.

What task US Navy has so far given to IN in the Indian Ocean. Only to chase Somalis small boats.... This is what you are talking about Blue Water Navy. Indian Navy is only conducting counter piracy operations since August 2008 and is being paid to escort ships in convoys of INS and CGS. In fact, Indian Navy is commercial enterprise of US Navy. Yes! Chase and Search Operations against small fishing boats off the coast of Somalia is top priority of IN. In return US Navy is helping Indian Ships in their voyage. In the recent past, USS CARNEY'S Board helped IN to protect Indian flagged AL QASHMI off the south western coast of Oman. The point is we know each other's capabilities then what there so much fuss about superiority?

 

[Bheeshma]

IN organizes its own patrols irrespective of USN whether it be in the horn of africa or south china sea. Unlike PN which begs US for money in return for sending a couple of rust buckets with CTF 150, 151 for patrolling the persian gulf. The difference in capability between IN and PN is that between a real navy and a fishing fleet. PN is a rental force scrapping the junk yards for hand me down perry's or other 25-30 year old frigates. Yes we know how incapable PN is and thats why there is no fuss. IN's superiority in Indian Ocean is only challenged by USN. Fishing fleets like PN hardly matter. I am glad you agree there is no fuss on this point.

More to the point. Entire pakistan armed forces and pakistan are rental whores for USA. The PA is fighting and killing innocent pakhtoons because US says so. PN is doing chowkidar duties against Iranians (WTF fewllow muslims !!!) for a few dollars more and PAF refuses to fly against unmanned drones . So Indo-US build up in Indian ocean or south china sea is of no consequence to pakis. They are already bought and paid for by US.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

Who knows why Pakistan has strengthen this side. The Navies' built up in Indian ocean cannot be ignored. If something goes wrong, PN is definitively strong enough to protect its waters and assets. We have enemies and adversaries but our biggest enemy is not India but the one who has penetrated inside our files as friend and partner. India is not any exception. You will see that Indian diversion from Non-aligned policy will leave her no where. But I am sure your leadership will come out of this problem if you don't try to pose bigger than your size as short term strategy.

The other point is that Pakistan and Iran enjoys brotherly relations and why anyone of us will pose a threat to each other. The presence of PN in its waters and high seas are its strategic moves and exercises.