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AnantS

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Isnt that a Mil. aircraft?
I dont know if such techs would be allowed in Civilian Sector for civilian crafts as that would be a whole different game altogether...

IMO its C 295 is only used by mil. all over the world...and there must be very specific reason why mil. aircrafts are not made available for civilian use.


MS 21 is Jet powered and it will be very costly when operating between small and short point to point travel as most of these cases the jet powered aircraft wont be reaching cruising altitude to gain fuel economy.
and the passenger capacity on it is 100+

May be the domestic industry is looking at an aircraft with less than 100 pax capacity.
I know its MIL aircraft. But it can be used as platform to spin off a civilian version. And its not unheard of. ATR 72 is prime example. Here this article mentions Tata has very much civilian application of C 295 in mind while choosing plane. The absence of that capability was one of the reason C-27J was not selected: http://www.stratpost.com/airbus-tata-set-precedent-with-c-295-approval.

C-295 is also certified for civil applications. https://airbusdefenceandspace.com/our-portfolio/military-aircraft/c295/
The civil and military certification of the C295 ensures compliance with the international airworthiness regulations and safety standards, including the stringent FAR 25 requirements.
 

sorcerer

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@sorcerer
3D Printing in aviation is very much in realm of manufacturing. Ever aircraft manufacturer worth his salt in the market is adopting 3D printing. eg Boeing https://3dprint.com/49489/boeing-3d-print/.

Even IL 114 is going to be license produced. And again you are not getting the point. The idea is not to build jazzy planes. Idea is to build modern design & manufacturing capabilities in India. IL 114 is an old 80-90's platform. ANd how much private or even domestic aviation companies prefer Russian commercial/passenger planes, can be gauged from their almost zilch presence in their inventory. Why build a plane which will be only force fed to AI only? We should prefer clean sheet design and rope in major like Tata to produce, with assurance that it also introduces the aircraft once developed in its airlines along with AI
Nice thing to know about 3D printing...but thats some cutting edge with a lot of quality control in the process.
We will have to adapt to such "adherence" to quality standards before we try that. But its good..really good if we can get it done for our industries.

Yes I understood it. We need prefer clean sheet designs that leads to the upgradation of existing industry capacity. I agree.

Thats a nice suggestion.. lets hope in that case that the cost factor is really economical for domestic aviation companies which are already struggling . If thats worked out then all this is possible. and Yes Tata could really do it awesome for the aviation segment in India
 

Indx TechStyle

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Thanks Indx TechStyle, perhaps MS 21. However its too much for short routes. Hence something on the lines of C - 295 would fit bill.Considering anyway it will be license manufactured in India by TATA
Saras project has been revived.
Inside the thread I posted about aviation, a post has mentioned about development of a civil carrier (don't know if RTA-70/90 or a new project).
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/#post-1215866
I'm optimistic about it, even more eager than AMCA because development of civil airliners led China to develop Y-20 HTA. India needs to develop strategic bombers and HTA's in long term.

Do you any info about that aircraft?
 

Prashant12

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We are an ally who stood by India in darkest hours: Russia



With deals over USD 12 billion in kitty this month, including leasing of a second nuclear submarine, Russia hopes to bag more projects as it termed itself as not just a business partner but an "ally" who stood by India in its "darkest hours".

Russia is eying the multi-billion dollar deal for P75-I project of India under which six conventional submarines are to be built with Air Independent Propulsion systems and the next aircraft carrier project besides the deal to jointly develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft.

Asserting that there is no limit to what India and Russia can do together, a top Russian defense official claimed the US and Europeans can never give what Moscow can and has offered.

"We are ready not just to deliver most serious weapons, most important weapons but continue to give our state of art technology," Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation, an umbrella organisation of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms, told PTI.

"Russia is a friend, an ally and not a business partner. Russia stood by India during its darkest hours. Next year will mark 70 years of our relationship. It is a long time," he said and noted that Russia had stood by India when it faced sanctions after the 1998 nuclear tests.

"Not so in the recent past, when India was under sanctions, we were pretty much the only partner for India.

"Russia has been a partner not only in every day military supplies but also most sensitive and most important supplies including a nuclear submarine which was rented to India for you to use," said Chemezov who is also a close aide of Russian President Vladmir Putin.

"Come to think about it, I would not imagine any other country to do that, he said. Not in the past or in the future. I cannot imagine US or Europe giving India such a strategic asset," he said when asked about the tough competition that US and Europe are giving to Russia in the Indian defence market.

Not only did Russia lease out a nuclear powered submarine, it actively helped in the building India's first indigenous nuclear weapon carrying capable submarine INS Arihant which has been inducted into the Indian Navy.

Chemezov said "it is a very special year for us and will be marked by major projects and things are starting already."

He, however, admitted that from a third person's point of view, there might have been some decline in some areas of defense between the two countries. US and some European countries have managed to strike mega deals with India which the Russians were also competing for.

"It is not a linear sort of relationship. We feel that ties are definitely developing and increasing," he said.

Giving example of the deadly BrahMos missile, Chemezov said that not only has Russia delivered high value equipment but has also collaborated with India on developing strategic assets.

He pointed out that in late 1990s, Russia had transferred technology for Su30 MKI, India's frontline fighter aircraft.

"At that point of time, it was our most modern equipment, our most modern plane. When we had actually signed that agreement, Russia did not even equip its army with this.

"This was basically our newest highest technology. That shows and speaks about our relationship with India," he said.

He also gave the example of T90 tanks, saying they are "not in anyway less but in many way, modern than any advanced US or European technologies".

He said there is scope for cooperation in the P75-I and the aircraft carrier project."There is definitely scope for both of those. There is pretty much no limit to what we could do together. Anything that is within our realm of things and possibilities, means it is the same with India," he said.

Chemezov said that Russia has already submitted its proposals for both projects.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/577357/we-ally-stood-india-darkest.html
 

AnantS

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Saras project has been revived.
Inside the thread I posted about aviation, a post has mentioned about development of a civil carrier (don't know if RTA-70/90 or a new project).
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/#post-1215866
I'm optimistic about it, even more eager than AMCA because development of civil airliners led China to develop Y-20 HTA. India needs to develop strategic bombers and HTA's in long term.

Do you any info about that aircraft?
SARAS is again based on Myasishchev M-102. I am not enthused about the project being seriously adopted by civilan market. But its development must continue for learning sake. The civila airline is nothing but planned RJA. Which seems like it will end license build of MS 21 or SSJ 100
 

gadeshi

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@sorcerer @gadeshi Thanks for the information. But the point what do we gain usng an old design, that ? I say use this opportunity to build a modern composite aircraft, with 3D printing for manufacturing. Ilyushin/Bombardier/Embraer can be roped in for the collabration. The idea is to develop designing capability as well in the house.
1 - Composits-made aircrafts are too expensive for low-end local routes turboprops market.
2 - Composites are sane in the case of medium to large airplanes where TCO percentage rule the game.
3 - Composites are weaker adapted for harsh usage environment such as low-cost local routes that often serve low-end airfields
4 - Composite panels and parts are not in-place fixable and require full part exchange and factory repair, which is too slow and expensive for mass-producing constantly flying low-cost fleet.

So, Il-114 with new TV7-117ST turboprops, non-critical composites parts and modern avionics suite is the best match for this job.
 

IndianHawk

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We need to seriously start manufacturing civilan airframes given that in next two decades we will be the largest buyer of all types of civilian aircrafts.
Otherwise we'll loose trillion of dollars.

We need offset clause and make in India contact in this sector too.

We can small medium jets with Russia and Europe.
And we can build larger with boing
 

prohumanity

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Russia has proved time and again as India's most dependable friend. I think its in Russian character to not quickly dump friends for material gains. Russia is standing by its friend ,Syria in spite of great opposition from anglo-spheric powers.
Its good to know that India-Russia relations are alive and kicking..proof is offer of S-400 missiles..the best Russia can offer.
 

IndianHawk

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Russia has proved time and again as India's most dependable friend. I think its in Russian character to not quickly dump friends for material gains. Russia is standing by its friend ,Syria in spite of great opposition from anglo-spheric powers.
Its good to know that India-Russia relations are alive and kicking..proof is offer of S-400 missiles..the best Russia can offer.
Well most Russians are Orthodox .You can trust them more than Yankees any day.
But is relationship is to survive it needs to move beyond defense domain and shape into economic engagement.
 

here2where

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I think its in Russian character to not quickly dump friends for material gains
I will prefer not to get sentimental like that. Russia is doing what it is doing based on cold hard economic calculations. Western sanctions is crushing it. Crash in oil prices is adding insult to injury. It needs to sell weapons to whoever it can profit from. Iam waiting to see their business relations with the porkis going forward. That will reveal everything. For the time being, we seemed to have stemmed the tilt. But who knows...
 

gadeshi

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Thanks Indx TechStyle, perhaps MS 21. However its too much for short routes. Hence something on the lines of C - 295 would fit bill.Considering anyway it will be license manufactured in India by TATA
Il-114 is passenger aircraft only. Civil cargo mission will be taken by Il-112T civil version of Il-112V light military transport.
This pair is extremely lucrative solution since they are major unified by common engine, avionics and spares, can be maintained by the same teams in the same places using the same spares stores and both having significant TCO advantages over their rivals.
 

alphacentury

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From the horse's mouth.


http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/53103

Well, if this has any substance, then good luck to you too Mr. Putin, making friends with China.:biggrin2:
--------------------------------------------------------------
This may not be thread for it, but it makes me angry how we lost almost a decade in terms of both, Military and economic pov because of that italian waitress. :tsk: This is a crucial period and a compromising situation and we dont have all the cards we would like. Never too late though.
 

sorcerer

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IAF chief Arup Raha on six-day visit to Russia


Indian Air Force
chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha today began his six-day visit to Russia during which he will meet top military officials as the two countries eye key projects like the one for joint development of fifth generation fighter aircraft and upgrade of Su30-MKI planes, besides other programmes.

The visit comes just days after India and Russia announced deals worth over USD 12 billion, including the S400 Triumf air defence systems which will be operated by the IAF.



"The visit is intended to take the existing defence cooperation between the Air Forces of the two countries to the next level," a statement by the IAF said.

The areas of cooperation presently include military and technical cooperation, exchange visits and air exercises.

During his visit to Russia, Raha is scheduled to hold talks with senior military leaders and discuss a wide range of bilateral issues on the ongoing defence cooperation.

He will also visit various Air Force and defence establishments.

Raha's visit to Russia would provide further impetus towards increasing defence cooperation and deepening the bonds of friendship between the two Air Forces, the statement said.


http://www.business-standard.com/ar...n-six-day-visit-to-russia-116102400808_1.html
 
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gadeshi

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From the horse's mouth.


http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/53103

Well, if this has any substance, then good luck to you too Mr. Putin, making friends with China.:biggrin2:
--------------------------------------------------------------
This may not be thread for it, but it makes me angry how we lost almost a decade in terms of both, Military and economic pov because of that italian waitress. :tsk: This is a crucial period and a compromising situation and we dont have all the cards we would like. Never too late though.
Putin is trying to make friends with all who wants to make it.
Putin wants to stabilize and glue every region with Russian interests to gain peace and order.
 

sorcerer

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India, Russia To Hold Talks On Military Ties Tomorrow


NEW DELHI: India and Russia will tomorrow hold detailed discussions on deeper military cooperation, especially on joint production of fifth generation fighter aircraft, upgradation of Su-30 MKI planes and firming up the contract for the S-400 'Triumf' air defense system.


Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu will be arriving here tonight and will co-chair a meeting of the Indo-Russian Inter Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGCMTC) here tomorrow with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.

The two will have restricted meeting followed by delegation-level talks, defense sources said.
It was during a meeting of the commission in Moscow last year that both sides had firmed up plans to acquire the air defense system and other deals which were recently signed on the sidelines of the BRICS meet in Goa.

Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation, a Russian umbrella organisation of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms, had told PTI that they expect the agreement on fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to be finalize by this year end.

After a hiatus of nearly a year, India and Russia had in February revived talks on the much delayed FGFA project after a clearance from Parrikar.

Since then, a lot of issues related to work share, IPR and technology transfer among others have been sorted out between the two sides along with the monetary commitments.

Under the new offer, India will have to pay about $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for technological know-how and three prototypes of the fighters, the sources said.

In 2010, India had agreed to pay $295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter, called in India as Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF).

The two sides are also expected to discuss the upgrade of SU-30 MKI, India's front line fighter aircraft. Russia is also eyeing the multi-billion dollar deal for P75-I project of India under which six conventional submarines are to be built with Air Independent Propulsion systems.

With deals over $12 billion in kitty this month, including leasing of a second nuclear submarine, Russia hopes to bag more projects as it termed itself as not just a business partner but an "ally" who stood by India in its "darkest hours".


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...litary-ties-tomorrow/articleshow/55054090.cms
 

sorcerer

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Russia to remain main defence ally: Manohar Parrikar



Brushing aside Russian concerns that India may be drifting towards the US, particularly after the signing of the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement with the US providing access to Americans to Indian military bases, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said Indo-Russian friendship had stood the test of time.

“Russia is India’s time-tested and closest partner and it will continue to remain our primary defence partner,” Parrikar said in his opening remarks at the 16th meeting of the India-Russia Intergovern-mental Commission on Military-Technical Co-operation (IRIGC-MTC).

However, he sought a more focused military-to-military cooperation. “While our military technical cooperation is progressing well, I feel that the traditional military-to-military cooperation needs more focus. The pace and depth of our exchanges at the level of chiefs, training of personnel in each other’s institutions, joint military exercises between all armed forces should be enhanced.”

On October 15, India and Russia signed 16 agreements on the sidelines of the Brics Summit in Goa which included supply of the powerful S-400 Triumf air defence systems, four new guided missile stealth frigates and setting up a joint venture to jointly manufacture Kamov 226T helicopters.

But the Russian media had reported that what was not made public in the announcement was a $2 billion deal to lease a multipurpose Project 971 nuclear submarine to India from the Russian Navy. While Parrikar led the Indian side, his counterpart General Sergey Shoigu led the Russian delegation.

The Russian media quoted Shoigu as saying that the two sides discussed issues pertaining to after-sales service of previously supplied military equipment.

http://www.asianage.com/india/russia-remain-main-defence-ally-manohar-parrikar-222
 

sorcerer

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Russia, India will expand military cooperation with focus on Navy projects

There is a special major program for naval ships, including submarines, Shoigu added.

"I believe that today there is a good opportunity for reviewing the results of the previous year and identifying targets for next year. We are ready to discuss all crucial problems, issues and prospects for our military and military-technical cooperation," Shoigu concluded.
https://in.rbth.com/economics/defen...ooperation-with-focus-on-navy-projects_642433
 

sorcerer

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Russia suggests joint engineering troops’ drills with India
The Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu announced this initiative during a bilateral meeting with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.

Russian Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu suggested on Wednesday that Russia and India should hold joint engineering troops’ drills.

The Russian defence minister also invited Indian specialists to take part in the Army 2017 military and technical forum.

"The Russian defence minister announced these initiatives during a bilateral meeting with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar," Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov told journalists.




It has been proposed that the joint maneuvers for humanitarian mine clearance should be held on the basis of the Russian international anti-mine center whose specialists took part in the operation to clear the ancient Syrian town of Palmyra of mines, he said.


The Russian defence minister also invited the Indian military to take part in the Army Games-2017.
https://in.rbth.com/economics/defen...t-engineering-troops-drills-with-india_642609
 

sorcerer

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Manohar Parrikar hands a non-paper to Russian defence minister ‘to recapture dynamism of military ties’


When defence minister Manohar Parrikar sat down with his Russian counterpart General Sergey Shoigu for the 16th meeting of the India-Russia Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation on Wednesday, it was with an aim to reassure the Russians of New Delhi’s political commitment to the bilateral relationship. To remove any misgivings that may have crept up in Moscow, Parrikar, in fact, explicitly stated in his opening remarks at the meeting that Russia “will continue to remain our primary defence partner”.


“In the government, we felt that we need to try and recapture the dynamism of military-to-military interaction that was earlier between India and Russia,” top government sources told The Indian Express. To recapture the dynamism, according to sources, Parrikar handed over a non-paper to General Shoigu, which has proposals for institutionalising the interaction between the two countries. As a first step towards that, Parrikar proposed the expansion of Military-Technical commission to a Military and Military-Technical commission which was readily accepted by his Russian counterpart.

The non-paper proposes that India and Russia will increase the number of joint military exercises, increase their frequency and make them more complex. It also suggests more robust staff-level talks between Indian and Russian defence ministries, which will feed into institutionalised senior-level dialogues. These proposals are part of the changed thinking in the government circles that defence has to be the core driver of India-Russia relationship.


“The idea is to increase the surface level of interaction between India and Russia defence ministries. That is one important outcome of the meeting,” source added. While there is a scope for improvement but the two sides recognise that there has been good progress as India has committed to making big-ticket defence purchases from Russia. According to sources, Moscow knows that India’s relationship with the US is independent of the India-Russia relationship and it is not a zero-sum game.

Parrikar also raised the issue of joint Russia-Pakistan military exercises, which were held on Pakistani soil, immediately after the Uri terror attack which led to the death of 19 Indian soldiers. While the Indian side said that it had hurt the public sentiment in the country, the Russians were dismissive of the joint drill, calling it “minor and routine”.

The two sides also discussed the issue of spares for the defence equipment of Russian and Soviet origin, which forms two-thirds of the Indian inventory. Moscow needs a Presidential decree to amend the regulations whereby Indian companies can directly deal with Russian producers of components. A conference is also planned in New Delhi next month to explore the possibility of Indian private defence manufacturers to produce these components here in India.

The issue of maintenance of MiG-29K naval fighters, whose serviceability has been adversely commented upon by the CAG, was also raised by the Indian side. The Russians were asked to expedite the start of the contractually obligated maintenance facilities in India. The two sides also looked at expediting the joint production of Kamov helicopters, in accordance with the deal signed in Goa earlier this month. The Indian side also informed the Russians that they are still studying the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft proposal, which will need to be a part of the broader plan for the aerospace industry in India.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-recapture-dynamism-of-military-ties-3726801/
 

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