Indo-China War Rhetoric

[NSG_Blackcats]

Govt denies report of firing by Chinese troops

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

China tension: NSA summons meeting​

China's soldiers, helicopters and now even fighter jets have been intruding into Indian Territory and airspace in the last month. Beijing's new aggressiveness comes even as talks continue to resolve the border issue. Though, officially both sides are playing down the incidents, NDTV has learnt that the National Security Advisor (NSA) is clearly worried and has called a meeting of the government's highest China policy making group on Thursday. Each day seems to bring more bad news from the Chinese border.

Air intrusions:
•Chinese fighters intrude in Eastern India
NDTV has learnt that for the first time in several years, two Chinese Sukhoi planes intruded into Indian air space in Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim.

Significant timing:
•Incident a day before key meeting
Although the Air Force says it has no confirmation of this incident, intelligence sources say it happened on August 6, just a day before India-China talks on the boundary issue were being held in New Delhi. Some in the Indian establishment believe that this was a mischievous move. Then there are other incidents.

Tension areas:
•Incursion in Uttarakhand
On September 7, Chinese soldiers on horseback came three Km inside Indian territory at Barahoti in Uttarakhand.

Alarmed by increasing border violations and aggressive signals by the Chinese, NSA MK Narayanan has convened a meeting of the China Study Group on Thursday. Narayanan will meet the Cabinet Secretary and Secretaries of Defence, Home and External Affairs besides the chiefs of the three Armed Forces and the Intelligence Bureau and the RAW to formulate Indian response to the developing situation. Indian policy makers believe that the recent trend of aggressive patrolling, assertive transgressions and vituperative articles in state media aimed against India, is all part of the larger Chinese design to keep India off balance. Despite 13 rounds of talks, Beijing and New Delhi have not made much progress on the boundary issue and these fresh incidents have only added to the unease.

Link

 

[kickok1975]

Why war? I don't think it will happen. I enjoy living peacefully with my Indian narbor!

 

[ssingh49]

Govt, IAF deny Chinese incursions, firing incident

New Delhi: The government and Air Force on Tuesday insisted that there had been no incursion by Chinese nor any firing incident on Sikkim border in which two ITBP jawans were injured as claimed by a media report.

The Prime Minister's Office also denied that National Security Adviser M K Narayanan had convened a high-level meeting on Thursday to discuss Chinese incursions.

"A media report about two ITBP jawans having been injured due to firing (by China) from across the Line of Actual Control (LAC) has come to notice. The report is factually incorrect," External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said in a statement here.

The report had claimed that the ITBP jawans were injured when Chinese troops fired at them in Kerang in northern Sikkim about a fortnight ago.

ITBP too denied the occurrence of any incident. "The reported incident that two jawans of ITBP were injured by bullets fired from the Chinese side was false...No such incident of firing has taken place in north Sikkim on India–China border and no member of ITBP has been injured," an ITBP statement said.

Another media report suggested that two Chinese fighters had transgressed into Indian airspace last month, which was dismissed by IAF as "far-fetched and imaginative".

IAF spokesperson Wing Commander T K Singha said there had been no unscheduled flight inside Indian air space. "We will react if there is any unscheduled flight noticed and picked up on our radars," he said.

NSA convenes meet of China Study Group

Apparently concerned over repeated incursions by Chinese troops, National Security Advisor M K Narayanan has convened a meeting of top officials including Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar and Secretaries of Defence, Home and Foreign Ministries.

The meeting of the China Study Group has been called to take stock of the situation along the Sino-India border, official sources said here tonight.

Besides Chandrasekhar, the meeting will be attended by Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar, Home Secretary G K Pillai, Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao.

Top officials of the three armed forces and the Intelligence Bureau will also attend the meeting.


Source: Govt, IAF deny Chinese incursions, firing incident

 

[kickok1975]

My real Estate broker is a Indian and she is a really nice lady. She work hard and diligently. I'm grateful for all her help
Indian students are smart too. I rarely saw them angry. Compare to our Chinese, I think they are more calm and torlerant. I see no reason China should not make friend with India.
Both countries have too many common grounds. We need work together to improve living standard for our huge population. We just have too many issues need deal with domestically, not mention internationally.
Don't pay too much attention to media. That's how they make live on. As regular people, we need focus on our life, do what we can to prevent any unecessary tension between two potential brothers.
As one of Chinese people, I'm confident to say most of us have positive view on India. A big developing country just like us.

 

[johnq]

We have nothing against the Chinese people. It's the Chinese Communist govt and military that's the problem.

As far as trusting Chinese govt, we learned that lesson a long time ago in 1962. Then also, the Chinese govt talked about peace and tranquility right up to the military attack on India. That has always been Chinese govt strategy: To talk about peace right before an offensive to get the opponent to lower their guard. It's classic Sun Tzu military strategy. But in this case China wants to keep stealing Indian territory little by little without the Indian people realizing it. That's the reason for the denials by Chinese govt.

Ofcourse the Chinese govt will keep calling Indian media liars while they continue to steal Indian territory, because they don't want all Indians to become united against Chinese govt land thefts. Because if that happened, no force on earth, including China, can take on the will of 1.2 billion democratically united people. And then the Indian govt will be forced to break off all ties with China. The result will be China (potentially) losing trillions of dollars from doing business in India ever in the future. If it came to that, Chinese govt would be forced to back away from Indian land theft. Then they will have to stop making absurd claims like all of Arunachal is theirs. Money is a powerful incentive, and currently China is making a lot more money from India than India from China (and there is potential for a LOT more).

 

[kuku]

This was the helo incident? Not a foot patrol?

Sorry, I have absolutely no clue whether these guys were drunk or on drugs. An incursion is one thing but dropping canned food ... well, it's not intimating anyone.

That the violation occured is beyond doubt ... but why? I have absolutely no idea ... whether their HQ ordered them to cross just to drop can dog foot ... or something more sinister.

Sir,
Its a practice along the some of the India PRC border, atleast in the border region that is near my village (in Niti Mana Valley, UttaraKhand), border patrol troops drop Items made in their respective nations on their side of the border whenever they come to patrol (usually in the summer time as during the winters its near impossible to patrol), may be to show that we know that this land is ours?

I asked my dad and this has been going on for a long time.

May be by dropping these items across the LAC (line of actual control) they were indicating that the line is not the actual border in their eyes?

May be someone from Arunachal could tell if it happens in their area too?

If someone knows anyone serving in the ITBP they could clear the situation for the rest of the border.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir,
Its a practice along the some of the India PRC border, atleast in the border region that is near my village (in Niti Mana Valley, UttaraKhand), border patrol troops drop Items made in their respective nations on their side of the border whenever they come to patrol (usually in the summer time as during the winters its near impossible to patrol), may be to show that we know that this land is ours?

Canned food? Not Chinese PLAYBOY?

 

[Sabir]

May be canned foods meant for foot patrols who were supposed to be there in near future.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Son, think about this.

You, an Indian soldier, found canned Chinese dog meat ... or a PLAYBOY layout of Miss Hong Kong March.

Which would would make you take notice more ... and which would you NOT report an incursion ... unless of course ... you were gay.

 

[kuku]

o O OOOOOO...............

I get it...

thanks....

And theres a chinese playboy , get right on searching for it...

(both sides drop things like a pack of cigrettes, soap bars etc. etc.)

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Look, people, I joke a lot but there's reason behind my one line statements. I want you to think. A $30K Cdn swimming pool against an $8mil US neutron warhead.

Think.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

(both sides drop things like a pack of cigrettes, soap bars etc. etc.)

Errr, there's no big 300lb Indian Jawan named Bubba, is there?

 

[Yusuf]

There is this 300lb former police officer who is now in the WWE!!!

 

[johnq]

FEER(9/4) India's Growing China Angst - WSJ.com

(From THE FAR EASTERN ECONOMIC REVIEW)
By Brahma Chellaney

At a time when the global power structure is qualitatively being transformed, the economic rise of China and India draws ever more attention. But the world has taken little notice of the rising border tensions and sharpening geopolitical rivalry between the two giants that represent competing political and social models of development.

China and India have had little political experience historically in dealing with each other. After all, China became India's neighbor not owing to geography but guns -- by forcibly occupying buffer Tibet in 1950. As new neighbors, India and China have been on a learning curve. Their 32-day war in 1962 did not settle matters because China's dramatic triumph only sowed the seeds of greater rivalry.

In recent months, hopes of a politically negotiated settlement of the lingering territorial disputes have dissipated amid muscle flexing along the long, 4,057-kilometer Himalayan frontier. A clear indication that the 28-year-old border talks now are deadlocked came when the most recent round in August turned into a sweeping strategic dialogue on regional and international issues. The escalation in border tensions, though, has prompted an agreement to set up a direct hotline between the two prime ministers. A hotline, however welcome, may not be enough to defuse a situation marked by rising military incursions and other border-related incidents as well as by new force deployments.

A perceptible hardening of China's stance toward India is at the root of the bilateral tensions. This hardening became apparent almost three years ago when the Chinese ambassador to India publicly raked up the issue of Arunachal Pradesh, the northeastern Indian state that Beijing calls "Southern Tibet" and claims as its own. For his undiplomatic act on the eve of President Hu Jintao's New Delhi visit, the ambassador actually received Beijing's public support. Since then, the Indian army has seen Chinese military incursions increase in frequency across the post-1962 line of control. According to Indian defense officials, there were 270 line-of-control violations by the People's Liberation Army and 2,285 instances of "aggressive border patrolling" last year alone. Other border incidents are also reported, such as the PLA demolition of some unmanned Indian forward posts at the Tibet-Bhutan-Sikkim trijunction and Chinese attempts to encroach on Indian-held land in Ladakh.

As a result, the India-China frontier has become "hotter" than the India-Pakistan border, but without rival troops trading fire. Indeed, Sino-Indian border tensions now are at their worst since 1986-87, when local military skirmishes broke out after PLA troops moved south of a rivulet marking the line of control in the Sumdorong Chu sector in Arunachal Pradesh. Those skirmishes brought war clouds over the horizon before the two countries moved quickly to defuse the crisis. Today, PLA forays into Indian-held territory are occurring even in the only area where Beijing does not dispute the frontier -- Sikkim's 206-kilometer border with Tibet. Chinese troops repeatedly have attempted to gain control of Sikkim's evocatively named Finger Area, a tiny but key strategic location.

In response, India has been beefing up its defensive deployments in Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim and Ladakh. Besides bringing in tanks to reinforce its defenses in mountainous Sikkim, it is deploying two additional army mountain divisions and two squadrons of the advanced Sukhoi-30 MIKI bomber aircraft in its northeastern state of Assam, backed by three airborne warning and control systems. To improve its logistical capabilities, it has launched a crash program involving new roads, airstrips and advanced landing stations along the Himalayas. None of these steps, however, can materially alter the fact that China holds the military advantage on the ground. Its forces control the heights along the frontier, with the Indian troops perched largely on the lower levels. Furthermore, by building modern railroads, airports and highways in Tibet, China is now in a position to rapidly move large additional forces to the border to potentially strike at India at a time of Beijing's choosing.

Diplomatically, China is content, long having occupied land at will -- principally, the Aksai Chin plateau, which is almost the size of Switzerland. Aksai Chin, an integral part of Kashmir long before Xinjiang became a province of China under Manchu rule, provides the only accessible Tibet-Xinjiang route through the Karakoram passes of the Kunlun Mountains. Yet Beijing chooses to press claims on additional Indian territories as part of a grand strategy to keep India under military and diplomatic pressure.

Since ancient times, the Himalayas have been regarded as the northern frontiers of India. But having annexed Tibet, China has laid claim to areas far to the south of this Himalayan watershed, as underscored by its claim to Arunachal Pradesh -- a state nearly three times the size of Taiwan. That Tibet remains at the core of the India-China divide is being underlined by Beijing itself as its claim to additional Indian territories is based on alleged Tibetan ecclesial or tutelary links to them, not any professed Han connection. Such attempts at incremental annexation actually draw encouragement from India's self-injurious acceptance of Tibet as part of the People's Republic of China.

At the center of the Chinese strategy is an overt refusal to accept the territorial status quo. In not hiding its intent to further redraw the frontiers, Beijing only highlights the futility of political negotiations. After all, the status quo can be changed not through political talks but by further military conquest. Yet, paradoxically, the political process remains important for Beijing to provide the fa&GBP 231;ade of engagement while trying to change the realities on the ground. Keeping India engaged in endless, fruitless border talks while stepping up direct and surrogate pressure also chimes with China's projection of its "peaceful rise."

But as border tensions have escalated, vituperative attacks on India in the Chinese media have mounted. The Communist Party's mouthpiece, the People's Daily, taunted India in a June editorial for lagging behind China in all indices of power and asked it to consider "the consequences of a potential confrontation with China." Criticizing the Indian moves to strengthen defenses, it peremptorily declared: "China won't make any compromises in its border disputes with India."

The most provocative Chinese essay, however, appeared on China International Strategy Net, a quasiofficial Web site that enjoys the Communist Party's backing and is run by an individual who made his name by hacking into United States' government Web sites in retaliation to the 1999 American bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. Posted on August 8, the essay called for a Chinese strategy to dismember multiethnic India into 20 or 30 fragments. This is an old, failed project China launched in the Mao years when it trained and armed Naga, Mizo and other guerrillas in India's restive northeast.

The strains in Sino-Indian relations have also resulted from sharpening geopolitical rivalry. This was evident from China's botched 2008 effort to stymie the U.S.-India nuclear deal by blocking the Nuclear Suppliers Group from opening civilian nuclear trade with New Delhi. In the NSG, China landed itself in a position it avoids in any international body -- as the last holdout. Recently, there has been an outcry in India over attempts to undermine the Indian brand through exports from China of fake pharmaceutical products labeled "Made in India."

The unsettled border, however, remains at the core of the bilateral tensions. Indeed, 47 years later, the wounds of the 1962 war have been kept open by China's aggressive claims to additional Indian territories. Even as China has emerged as India's largest trading partner, the Sino-Indian strategic dissonance and border disputes have become more pronounced. New Delhi has sought to retaliate against Beijing's growing antagonism by banning Chinese toys and cell phones that do not meet international standards. But modest trade actions can do little to persuade Beijing to abandon moves to strategically encircle and squeeze India by employing China's rising clout in Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal.

In fact, the question that needs to be asked is whether New Delhi helped create the context to embolden Beijing to be assertive and bellicose. For long, New Delhi has indulged in ritualized happy talk about the state of its relationship with Beijing, brushing under the rug both long-standing and new problems and hyping the outcome of any bilateral summit meeting. New Delhi now is staring at the harvest of a mismanagement of relations with China over the past two decades by successive governments that chose propitiation over leverage building. New Delhi is so slow to correct its course that mistakes get compounded. For example: India will observe 2010 -- the 60th anniversary of China becoming India's neighbor by taking over Tibet -- as the "Year of Friendship with China."

Yet another question relates to China's intention. In muscling up to India, is China seeking to intimidate India or actually fashioning an option to wage war on India? In other words, are China's present-day autocrats itching to see a repeat of 1962? The present situation, in several key aspects, is no different from the one that prevailed in the run-up to the 1962 invasion of India, which then Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai declared was designed "to teach India a lesson." Consider the numerous parallels:

First, like in the pre-1962 war period, it has become commonplace internationally to speak of India and China in the same breath. The aim of "Mao's India war," as Harvard scholar Roderick MacFarquhar has called it, was largely political: To cut India to size by demolishing what it represented -- a democratic alternative to the Chinese autocracy. The swiftness and force with which Mao Zedong defeated India helped discredit the Indian model, boost China's international image and consolidate Mao's internal power. The return of the China-India pairing decades later is something Beijing viscerally detests.

The Dalai Lama's flight to India in 1959-and the ready sanctuary he got there -- paved the way for the Chinese military attack. Today, 50 years after his escape, the exiled Tibetan leader stands as a bigger challenge than ever for China, as underscored by Beijing's stepped-up vilification campaign against him and its admission that it is now locked in a "life and death struggle" over Tibet. With Beijing now treating the Dalai Lama as its Enemy No. 1, India has come under greater Chinese pressure to curb his activities and those of his government-in-exile. The continuing security clampdown in Tibet since the March 2008 Tibetan uprising parallels the Chinese crackdown in Tibet during 1959-62.

In addition, the present pattern of crossfrontier incursions and other border incidents, as well as new force deployments and mutual recriminations, is redolent of the situation that prevailed before the 1962 war. When the PLA marched hundreds of miles south to occupy the then-independent Tibet and later nibble at Indian territories, this supposedly was neither an expansionist strategy nor a forward policy. But when the ill-equipped and short-staffed Indian army belatedly sought to set up posts along India's unmanned Himalayan frontier to try and stop further Chinese encroachments, Beijing and its friends dubbed it a provocative "forward policy." In the same vein, the present Indian efforts to beef up defenses in the face of growing PLA crossborder forays are being labeled a "new forward policy" by Beijing.

Moreover, the 1962 war occurred against the backdrop of China instigating and arming insurgents in India's northeast. Though such activities ceased after Mao's 1976 death, China seems to be coming full circle today, with Chinese-made arms increasingly flowing into guerrilla ranks in northeastern India, including via Burmese front organizations. While a continuing 12-year-old ceasefire has brought peace to Nagaland, some other Indian states such as Assam and Manipur are racked by multiple insurgencies, allowing Beijing to fish in troubled waters.

Finally, just as India had retreated to a defensive position in the border negotiations with Beijing in the early 1960s after having undermined its leverage through a formal acceptance of the "Tibet region of China," New Delhi similarly has been left in the unenviable position today of having to fend off Chinese territorial demands. Whatever leverage India still had on the Tibet issue was surrendered in 2003 when it shifted its position from Tibet being an "autonomous" region within China to it being "part of the territory of the People's Republic of China." Little surprise that the spotlight now is on China's Tibet-linked claim to Arunachal Pradesh than on Tibet itself.

This is why Beijing has invested so much political capital in getting India to gradually accept Tibet as part of China. Its success on that score has helped narrow the dispute. That neatly meshes with China's long-standing negotiating stance: What it occupies is Chinese territory, and what it claims must be shared -- or as it puts it in reasonably sounding terms, through a settlement based on "mutual accommodation and mutual understanding." So, while publicly laying claim to the whole of Arunachal Pradesh, China in private is asking India to cede at least that state's strategic Tawang Valley -- a critical corridor between Lhasa and Assam of immense military import because it overlooks the chicken-neck that connects India's northeast with the rest of the country.

In fact, with the Dalai Lama having publicly repudiated Chinese claims that Arunachal Pradesh, or even Tawang, was part of Tibet, a discomfited Beijing sought to impress upon his representatives in the now-suspended dialogue process that for any larger political deal to emerge, the Tibetan government-in-exile must support China's position that Arunachal has been part of traditional Tibet. The plain fact is that with China's own claim to Tibet being historically dubious, its claims to Indian territories are doubly suspect.

Today, as India gets sucked into a pre-1962-style trap, history is in danger of repeating itself. The issue then was Aksai Chin; the issue now is Arunachal. But India is still reluctant to shine a spotlight on Tibet as the lingering core issue. Even though Tibet has ceased to be the political buffer between India and China, it needs to become the political bridge between the world's two most-populous countries. For that to happen, Beijing has to begin a process of reconciliation and healing in Tibet.

Internationally, there are several factors contributing to China's greater assertiveness toward India as part of an apparent strategy to prevent the rise of a peer rival in Asia. First, India's growing strategic ties with the U.S. are more than offset by America's own rising interdependence with China, to the extent that U.S. policy now gives Beijing a pass on its human-rights abuses, frenetic military buildup at home and reckless strategic opportunism abroad. America's Asia policy is no longer guided by an overarching geopolitical framework as it had been under President George W. Bush, a fact reflected by the Obama administration's silence on the China-India border tensions.

In addition, the significant improvement in China's own relations with Taiwan and Japan since last year has given Beijing more space against India. A third factor is the weakening of China's Pakistan card against India. Pakistan's descent into chaos has robbed China of its premier surrogate instrument against India, necessitating the exercise of direct pressure.

Against this background, India can expect no respite from Chinese pressure. Whether Beijing actually sets out to teach India "the final lesson" by launching a 1962-style surprise war will depend on several calculations, including India's defense preparedness to repel such an attack, domestic factors within China and the availability of a propitious international timing of the type the Cuban missile crisis provided 47 years ago. But if India is not to be caught napping again, it has to inject greater realism into its China policy by shedding self-deluding shibboleths, shoring up its deterrent capabilities and putting premium on leveraged diplomacy.

 

[IBRIS]

Son, think about this.

You, an Indian soldier, found canned Chinese dog meat ... or a PLAYBOY layout of Miss Hong Kong March.

Which would would make you take notice more ... and which would you NOT report an incursion ... unless of course ... you were gay.

Olympics in China is serious. You dont win gold you get more of bamboo sticks up your finger nails. Not really but you would wish that instead

 

[no smoking]

Olympics in China is serious. You dont win gold you get more of bamboo sticks up your finger nails. Not really but you would wish that instead

Is that how india treat its player, or even worse? I must say, unbelievable. Now, I understand why india have only one gold so far and very few interested in other sports than cricket: the loser will suffer so much.

Honestly, india can learn from china: use money to motivate the player:blum3:.

 

[IBRIS]

Honestly, india can learn from china: use money to motivate the player:blum3:.

I'd fake my age too if I lived in China. Athletes are treated better, fed better, housed better in India......
To bad most of chinese are dumped after they can't compete.

"Those laugh-a-minute Maoists simply cannot resist a good joke":blum3:.

 

[no smoking]

I'd fake my age too if I lived in China. Athletes are treated better, fed better, housed better in India......
To bad most of chinese are dumped after they can't compete.

"Those laugh-a-minute Maoists simply cannot resist a good joke":blum3:.

Too bad most of indian players can live better life than ordinary while they cannot win anything.

 

[IBRIS]

Too bad most of indian players can live better life than ordinary while they cannot win anything.

your Counter Attack technique: Sucks in quality.
"These creatures are able to withstand multiple Flying Dragon Falling Slash combos from the Unlabored Flawlessness". Crows provide no threat whatsoever. They do not possess an attack capability. Spear Impalement, Spear Thrust, Horse Kick, Horse Trample. :blum3: Take ur behind back to shyerland.