India-China Relations

vayuu1

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We shouldn't assume for the sake of an argument, rather prepare ourselves for any situation, they have history of backstabbing us, so better prepare than be sorry.

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F-14B

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CHINA-INDIA BORDER DISPUTE

BHUTAN CAN SOLVE ITS BORDER PROBLEM WITH CHINA – IF INDIA LETS IT
BY TSERING SHAKYA22 JUL 2017
The only surviving Tibetan Buddhist kingdom is caught between a rock and a hard place, seemingly willing to negotiate its longstanding territorial claims with Beijing but feeling the heat from an overbearing New Delhi


Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is met by Bhutanese Prime Minister Tshering Tobgay at Paro Airport in 2014, when he went to Bhutan on his first foreign trip since becoming…
The tiny Himalayan state of Bhutan, portrayed as the happiest place in the world, is now caught in the middle between two Asian giants as Chinese and Indian soldiers stand eyeball-to-eyeball on a narrow, barren patch high up on the mountainous borders where Bhutan and China meet.

Rhetoric has been flying thick and fast on both sides, with Beijing reminding India about the “lesson” of 1962 and New Delhi retorting that it is not the same India that lost poorly to China in that short border war 55 years ago. The current situation is portrayed by India’s hyper-nationalistic media in terms of encirclement by China and Beijing’s designs on India. However, for the small Himalayan states and border regions, it’s not China that makes them nervous, it’s India.

The Indian press, calling it a border dispute between India and China, colourfully describes the disputed narrow valley leading into India’s northeast as the “chicken neck”. The valley is supposedly the “dagger” pointing at India, alluding to China’s strategic intentions. In reality, the issue does not have much to do with the border, and definitely not the China-India border. The area under contention, between Bhutan and Tibet, has never been cartographically demarcated.


Vehicles travel along a mountain road near the Nathula Pass, an open trading post in the Himalayas between India and China, in Sikkim, India. Photo; Bloomberg
Before the Chinese annexation of Tibet, the nomads living on the plateau moved freely across these areas. In the 1950s, China negotiated and settled most of its land borders, but never completed discussions with Bhutan, because India insisted on the right to negotiate on behalf of Bhutan, which the Chinese refused to accept. China wanted direct negotiations with Bhutan. Eventually India had to relent.

Since 1984, Bhutan and China have held 24 rounds of talks, the content of which has been kept secret. Both parties have mouthed the usual diplomatic platitudes, but the protracted nature of the talks indicates major disagreement.

India’s acceptance of direct Bhutan-China negotiations was based on observation of China’s past strategy in territorial negotiation with smaller states such as Pakistan, Nepal and Myanmar that are not seen as a threat to China’s security. For them, China adopted a benevolent position and conceded their demands. But with Bhutan, it has taken a tough stand, and many in Bhutan blame New Delhi for it.

China stands on the crest of the Himalayas and has highly developed infrastructure, giving it the dominant position. Bhutan and China identified seven disputed areas. Most of these are of no great significance to China, and which it is willing to concede to Bhutan. But Bhutan’s claims are historically flimsy, and China has been able to present a huge amount of Tibetan historical land records from the past government of the Dalai Lama to show these territories were under the jurisdiction of Lhasa.
wow I was expecting this from you man you don't disappoint due you
 

Hari Sud

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It is reasonable for India to stay out of huge publicity about your war preparations. That is a lesson which Chinese War theorist Sun Tsu said two thousand years back. Publicity gives away all your plans and ruins chances of success. Chinese and Indians are victims of self over confidence. Recent news of Apache helicopters going to the border for war is one dead give away. Same is true about Chinese propaganda. They both are trying to scare each other with publicity of war preparations. Sun Tse is against publicity stunts. He has many other lessons but more relevant other than forgoing is that - pretend mediocrity to let the enemy get arrogant. Chinese are already arrogant with their copied and stolen war technology which may or may not work, they consider themselves superior. They have not followed the essence of both the forgoing lessons. They - The Global Times has talked about huge amount of war material being sent to Tibet, and war drills being held which are routine excercises. This is their first mistake and not according to their own theorist. All publicity is to be avoided. Second the Chinese are behaving arrogant by reminding India again & again that how big militarily and economically they are! Also reminding India of 1962 defeat, assuming that Indians have been sitting idle for the last 50'years and not preparing for the eventuality. This arrogant behaviour actually leads to defeat. That is what is going to happen to them. They have made first two basic mistakes, third and fourth mistakes are coming I.e. Terrain for battle in Chumbi valley and Doklam plateau favours India, hence they selected a wrong spot, but timing wise they are right. That means that any summer action favours them but somewhat also it favours India because lines of communication are open. But they have a greater advantage in summer with Pakistan as their ally. If Chinese are loosing the battle, they could wink at Pakistan to start action on western front and divert India's attention. Internationally it will suicide for Pakistan to jump into the fray. The west could turn off the arms and spare parts tap instantaneously or send the Seventh Fleet to Arabian Sea to keep Pakistan out of the war.

When is all this going to happen - my guess is, next or next to next summer. By then all the publicity hype Chinese have started in their official Global Times has reached crescendo. Remember the Global Times is an official Chinese Communist Party English language newspaper although manned by very ameuteur journalists. They give away policy and plans indirectly without knowing.

On the other hand nothing may happen. Chinese may decide to call off everything and go back to Peking. That will ruin India's chances to even the 1962 war defeat score.

Wait and see. India has the right leader at the helm. The ball is in Chinese court.
 

lukewangchao

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To be frank, I really really really don't understand why India keep challenging china, you can go china and ask, no one take india as enemy. Why not take the chance of China's new silk way proposal and make good money from it? Such a win win situation.
If I ask me, Chinese government got many ways to mess up india, support pakistan in Kashmir, support the splittizm in east India region. And the guns and rockets can easily cutoff siriguri corridor. Without sufficient supplies, how long you guys think those armies can sustain? The huge number of armies will only make things worse. Not mentioning even bullets need to import from overseas. If the situation goes out of control, high chance that India to be torn apart, like what India did to Pakistan.
Don't say US will support India. Yes of course they will. Who don't want to take the chance to make money and same time weaken the potential enemy? US provide weapons, India provide money and lives of thouthands of soldiers. Who will be the eventual winner? India? No. china? Neither. It will be US that laugh at last.
And don't use Bhutan as an excuse. It's 21st century already, country and country are equal, no country is another one's suzerain. If Bhutan got problem with china, let them settle by themselves, anything to do with India!?
As a conclusion, I really don't understand the why Indian got such motivation and where India got such confidence to make trouble with china. Keep peace and make money, its good for both counties and the rest of the world as well.
 

lukewangchao

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It is reasonable for India to stay out of huge publicity about your war preparations. That is a lesson which Chinese War theorist Sun Tsu said two thousand years back. Publicity gives away all your plans and ruins chances of success. Chinese and Indians are victims of self over confidence. Recent news of Apache helicopters going to the border for war is one dead give away. Same is true about Chinese propaganda. They both are trying to scare each other with publicity of war preparations. Sun Tse is against publicity stunts. He has many other lessons but more relevant other than forgoing is that - pretend mediocrity to let the enemy get arrogant. Chinese are already arrogant with their copied and stolen war technology which may or may not work, they consider themselves superior. They have not followed the essence of both the forgoing lessons. They - The Global Times has talked about huge amount of war material being sent to Tibet, and war drills being held which are routine excercises. This is their first mistake and not according to their own theorist. All publicity is to be avoided. Second the Chinese are behaving arrogant by reminding India again & again that how big militarily and economically they are! Also reminding India of 1962 defeat, assuming that Indians have been sitting idle for the last 50'years and not preparing for the eventuality. This arrogant behaviour actually leads to defeat. That is what is going to happen to them. They have made first two basic mistakes, third and fourth mistakes are coming I.e. Terrain for battle in Chumbi valley and Doklam plateau favours India, hence they selected a wrong spot, but timing wise they are right. That means that any summer action favours them but somewhat also it favours India because lines of communication are open. But they have a greater advantage in summer with Pakistan as their ally. If Chinese are loosing the battle, they could wink at Pakistan to start action on western front and divert India's attention. Internationally it will suicide for Pakistan to jump into the fray. The west could turn off the arms and spare parts tap instantaneously or send the Seventh Fleet to Arabian Sea to keep Pakistan out of the war.

When is all this going to happen - my guess is, next or next to next summer. By then all the publicity hype Chinese have started in their official Global Times has reached crescendo. Remember the Global Times is an official Chinese Communist Party English language newspaper although manned by very ameuteur journalists. They give away policy and plans indirectly without knowing.

On the other hand nothing may happen. Chinese may decide to call off everything and go back to Peking. That will ruin India's chances to even the 1962 war defeat score.

Wait and see. India has the right leader at the helm. The ball is in Chinese court.
First, global times is stupid shit.
Second, siriguri corridor is so narrow and there is only one road linking the east India to the main land. It can be easily cut off during a war. And once the supply chain been cutoff, the more armies in east India, the worse it will be.
Third and most important, war has no good for both countries. India and china have no major conflicts, why can't be friends and happily make money together...
 

lukewangchao

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I don't think you can speak for USA or any of the other countries , this is the perfect opportunity for USA knock the chinese hot shots right out of the box for challenging USA for the top spot I am sure USA will use it well. This will be the perfect opportunity to stop the Chinese rise and preserve USA on top for decades to come, what taiwan and japan do is irrelevant. USA is not going to publicize what they do for you with a link, this will be nice payback for Vietnam and Korea.
And a good chance to make good money from India, and slow down india's development as well. one stone kill two birds, where on earth can find a better deal.
 

lukewangchao

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India also wishes to co-exist peacefully with China, and this intention is not born out of fear... India from day 1 thinks China as a friend, It is the Chinese who attacked India First.



We can confront anyone..... We confronted the Americans during 1971..... Do the chinese try to threaten us?

Dare to attack us.... forget Taiwan annexure.... forget having strong economy in future to challenge US.

2009 is not 1962..... If you come for an adventure we will give a befitting reply that you will not forget even in your dreams. Arunachal Pradesh is a integral Part of India..... China can claim... but who is going to give it to china...... You can dream of getting AP.... because as a democratic citizen we encourage everyone to dream.:india:
Hahaha, bro, you are very very funny
 

IndianHawk

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To be frank, I really really really don't understand why India keep challenging china, you can go china and ask, no one take india as enemy. Why not take the chance of China's new silk way proposal and make good money from it? Such a win win situation.
If I ask me, Chinese government got many ways to mess up india, support pakistan in Kashmir, support the splittizm in east India region. And the guns and rockets can easily cutoff siriguri corridor. Without sufficient supplies, how long you guys think those armies can sustain? The huge number of armies will only make things worse. Not mentioning even bullets need to import from overseas. If the situation goes out of control, high chance that India to be torn apart, like what India did to Pakistan.
Don't say US will support India. Yes of course they will. Who don't want to take the chance to make money and same time weaken the potential enemy? US provide weapons, India provide money and lives of thouthands of soldiers. Who will be the eventual winner? India? No. china? Neither. It will be US that laugh at last.
And don't use Bhutan as an excuse. It's 21st century already, country and country are equal, no country is another one's suzerain. If Bhutan got problem with china, let them settle by themselves, anything to do with India!?
As a conclusion, I really don't understand the why Indian got such motivation and where India got such confidence to make trouble with china. Keep peace and make money, its good for both counties and the rest of the world as well.
:bs::bs:

Another CCP brainwashed slave.
 

lukewangchao

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The chinese who smoke opium has arrived.
@lukewangchao , all your posts and counters are argued in relevant discussion threads.

Do take time to introduce yourself read relevant posts on India-china standoff in other discussion topics before you post
No need smoke anything, from my name can tell my race already bro
 

Yggdrasil

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To be frank, I really really really don't understand why India keep challenging china, you can go china and ask, no one take india as enemy. Why not take the chance of China's new silk way proposal and make good money from it? Such a win win situation.
If I ask me, Chinese government got many ways to mess up india, support pakistan in Kashmir, support the splittizm in east India region. And the guns and rockets can easily cutoff siriguri corridor. Without sufficient supplies, how long you guys think those armies can sustain? The huge number of armies will only make things worse. Not mentioning even bullets need to import from overseas. If the situation goes out of control, high chance that India to be torn apart, like what India did to Pakistan.
Don't say US will support India. Yes of course they will. Who don't want to take the chance to make money and same time weaken the potential enemy? US provide weapons, India provide money and lives of thouthands of soldiers. Who will be the eventual winner? India? No. china? Neither. It will be US that laugh at last.
And don't use Bhutan as an excuse. It's 21st century already, country and country are equal, no country is another one's suzerain. If Bhutan got problem with china, let them settle by themselves, anything to do with India!?
As a conclusion, I really don't understand the why Indian got such motivation and where India got such confidence to make trouble with china. Keep peace and make money, its good for both counties and the rest of the world as well.
Comrade I talk to you like you understand.

China very powerful, got many force. China already give money to Pakistan, help in build nuclear bomb, occupy Indian territory illegally, block NSG bid, support terrorist in UN, make fake statement, threaten India many time. If don't see in China news read foreign news - more reliable, less propaganda.

If China attack India at Siliguri and situation go out of control, India no sit at home suck thumb, India block China oil and supply at Straits of Malacca. China try to break India, China no food to eat for many day, big war, both side suffer big loss.

We want keep peace make money, your Comrade 11 Jinping tell you big lie we want to make trouble - if CCP want to make trouble for India, we no sit at home suck thumb.
 

lukewangchao

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Comrade I talk to you like you understand.

China very powerful, got many force. China already give money to Pakistan, help in build nuclear bomb, occupy Indian territory illegally, block NSG bid, support terrorist in UN, make fake statement, threaten India many time. If don't see in China news read foreign news - more reliable, less propaganda.

If China attack India at Siliguri and situation go out of control, India no sit at home suck thumb, India block China oil and supply at Straits of Malacca. China try to break India, China no food to eat for many day, big war, both side suffer big loss.

We want keep peace make money, your Comrade 11 Jinping tell you big lie we want to make trouble - if CCP want to make trouble for India, we no sit at home suck thumb.
That's why I say, let's keep peace and make money together, war has no good for India or china, you may think Chinese government is lying to its people, yes, that's possible, but how do you justify Indian government not doing the same to you guys, lol.
And without US navy's help, I don't think it's an easy job to cutoff China's oil supply line.
 

nongaddarliberal

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Too fat to fight;’ Communist Party Again Eases Weight Requisite for PLA recruits
By Arthur Dominic Villasanta | Jun 01, 2016 10:27 AM EDT
Facebook



The intractable problem of bulging waistlines among combat and non-combat personnel in the PLA's three services was brought to public attention in Feb. 2014 when the official People's Liberation Army Daily reported the average Chinese soldier was now five centimeters wider at the waist compared to 20 years ago. There are some 3.2 million personnel in the PLA.

These big bellied men are having trouble getting into their tanks that were designed over 30 years ago for slimmer men. They also feel more cramped in the already cramped interior of Chinese tanks. The study that brought out these findings recommended upgrading military equipment to take into account these realities.

Recently, the semi-official Global Times said the PLA now accepts male and female recruits that weigh 30 percent and 20 percent above the "standard weight." These numbers are five percent higher than in 2015.

The problem of overweight and obese teenagers derided as being "Too fat to fight" has remained intractable, a problem brought about by China's former one child policy. This policy gave rise to spoiled - and fat - children ridiculed as "Little Emperors."

In an admission of this inconvenient reality, the PLA softened its physical requirements for recruits at least four times since 2008. That move included lower height requirements and an increase to the maximum male weight "to allow more portly young men into the military," said China Daily.

Two years ago, overweight Chinese soldiers were warned to stay in shape or be denied promotions.

"It is strength but not weight, muscle not fat that is to be compared on the future war field," said Rear Admiral Luo Yuan, social commentator and military theorist at the PLA Academy of Military Science.



Read more: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/...ight-requisite-pla-recruits.htm#ixzz4omhQKwCu

:hippo: Old news, but still applies.
 

Indian Sniper.001

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To be frank, I really really really don't understand why India keep challenging china,
Literally ROFL on your dumb comments. Anyways, let's break your points one by one, shall we?

you can go china and ask, no one take india as enemy. Why not take the chance of China's new silk way proposal and make good money from it? Such a win win situation.
China thinks India as a third world country, like underdeveloped African nations. I don't blame them, after all they know what their govt. feed them - 'shit'. 'Money' is nothing front of a country's 'National Security'. We can always earn money until the day we are safe and independent, without a country poking its nose into our country.

Chinese government got many ways to mess up india, support pakistan in Kashmir, support thesplittizm in east India region. And the guns and rockets can easily cutoff siriguri corridor. Without sufficient supplies, how long you guys think those armies can sustain?
Did you just land in China from another planet? What the fuck do you think China is already doing? It is supporting Pakistan and NE insurgency, so stop bullshitting. Where will you position your guns and rockets and where will it come from, 'your ass'? IAF is more than capable of destroying incoming Chinese supplies, so shove that fact in your empty brain.

Not mentioning even bullets need to import from overseas. If the situation goes out of control, high chance that India to be torn apart, like what India did to Pakistan.
Do you even think before you comment crap here? India being torn apart like Pakistan? Man, you really need to smoke that hallucination stuff less, its making you go bonkers. When you can't touch a small country like Taiwan, how can you think that you can touch India?

Make money, money, money. YES, we do that, and we take other countries also along with us. We do it fairly, unlike you. So, take your crap somewhere else. And if you think you can beat us, I would suggest you to try, if not crawl back to your shithole.
 

TheSeeker

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:rofl::rofl:
It must take a lot to get fat eating chinese food

Too fat to fight;’ Communist Party Again Eases Weight Requisite for PLA recruits
By Arthur Dominic Villasanta | Jun 01, 2016 10:27 AM EDT
Facebook



The intractable problem of bulging waistlines among combat and non-combat personnel in the PLA's three services was brought to public attention in Feb. 2014 when the official People's Liberation Army Daily reported the average Chinese soldier was now five centimeters wider at the waist compared to 20 years ago. There are some 3.2 million personnel in the PLA.

These big bellied men are having trouble getting into their tanks that were designed over 30 years ago for slimmer men. They also feel more cramped in the already cramped interior of Chinese tanks. The study that brought out these findings recommended upgrading military equipment to take into account these realities.

Recently, the semi-official Global Times said the PLA now accepts male and female recruits that weigh 30 percent and 20 percent above the "standard weight." These numbers are five percent higher than in 2015.

The problem of overweight and obese teenagers derided as being "Too fat to fight" has remained intractable, a problem brought about by China's former one child policy. This policy gave rise to spoiled - and fat - children ridiculed as "Little Emperors."

In an admission of this inconvenient reality, the PLA softened its physical requirements for recruits at least four times since 2008. That move included lower height requirements and an increase to the maximum male weight "to allow more portly young men into the military," said China Daily.

Two years ago, overweight Chinese soldiers were warned to stay in shape or be denied promotions.

"It is strength but not weight, muscle not fat that is to be compared on the future war field," said Rear Admiral Luo Yuan, social commentator and military theorist at the PLA Academy of Military Science.



Read more: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/...ight-requisite-pla-recruits.htm#ixzz4omhQKwCu

:hippo: Old news, but still applies.
 

Flame Thrower

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That's why I say, let's keep peace and make money together, war has no good for India or china, you may think Chinese government is lying to its people, yes, that's possible, but how do you justify Indian government not doing the same to you guys, lol.
And without US navy's help, I don't think it's an easy job to cutoff China's oil supply line.
Bro, there are two ways to cut supplies.

First, Cut the supplies to entire China.

Next cut the supplies to PLAGF in the Doklam/ Tibet.

Now, if IN blocking Malakka straight which sounds like a death blow, in a true scenes, it is not. There are reserve strorages which act as buffer.

Cutting of supplies to PLAGF is done by bombing the supply linese. Though this is not entirety possible, but can do a great extent of psychological damage to the ground forces.

As @Mikesingh mentioned in his previous post, it takes more than 600 tonnes/day of supplies for 1 division to operate effectively. That supply lines(to my knowledge only two supply routes) will be bombed by IAF. That is something worse for PLAGF.

Now, before we question about PLAAF, let me remind you that PLAAF bases are very few and located at higher altitudes forcing them to operate with less payload. Do also remember that, any of these bases and supply depos within 250 km radius of Indo China border will be top priority for Bramhos regiments(un confirmed reports say that each regiment has close to some 1000 missiles). Before, you come onto training, the less we compare both AFs on training, the better.

It hardly takes 3 days for IAF to gain Air Supremacy for areas around Indo China border. Good news for you is that Indian Flankers(atleast 2 squadrons i.e 40 AC planned) are not ready to carry Bramhos(reports mention that modified Su 30 mkis will carry 3 Bramhos NG variants).

In short, GOI has all the advatages needed to fight of any skimmers to war. I am sure 1987 will repeat, if you're un lucky then 1967 will repeat. But there is no chances for 1962.

Govts lying, yes they always do.

Cutting of supplies i.e blocking Malakka straight for IN. Yes we can do it, but it will give little results for a short term war (i.e less than 2 months). In case of conflict, it will be blocked anyways. With Poseidons and a squadron flankers in Andaman and couple of Kolkata class destroyers can hold Malakka. Add Vikramaditya to mixture and boom you'll get a costly naval war which can be avoided. Any minor dent to PLAN, then its game over for CCP in SCS. So PLAN will not interfere. And by the way, 7th fleet is waiting for PLAAF and PLAN to make a foolish mistake, so that it NK can be struck with right force.

One last thing, Chinese has no opinion I mean CCP takes care of all the options for its citizens. How come you are quoting against the CCP mouthpiece i.e Global Times!?

Oh and the final part, I'd rather trust the devil than Chinese or Americans. Chinese attacked their closest brother Soviet Union during the cold war(when they were weak and taking technical support from SU). There is no way trusting Chinese Government.
 
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kenyannoobie

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Guys the conflict is designed and is already rolling if you all don't know who profits from war then the below link is an interesting read and you won't regret it.

http://warisaracket.com/

I urge you to go through the text,then you will get to know who really pulls the string,now the question is who are we buying weapons from? Yeah Israel,and there are lot of geopolitics elite who are seeing to it to destroy the growing influence of China,US is also seeing this transformation.

The establishment of the west isn't liking the new change in global scenario,you guys need to know about the petrodollar and how it controls the world economy,if China steps in every industry,and soon its influence is growing over Middle east with new bases around Pakistan,if Russia and China collaborates then the Middle east will be gone from US hand and the whole petrodollar machine will fall on itself,this is a nightmare for both the elites and US as a whole.

Now what would US and Israel do if they wanted to profit out of weapons without hindering their own economy? Yeah by teaming up with a young country with billions of young people who will be ready to fight given there is a multiple 26/11 attacks.

They know how many of them here hate Muslims and will go on a war with Pakistan,hence going on a war with China,the question is will US and Israel team up and beat the shit out of gooks?

CHINA-PAK-RUSSIA vs IND-ISRAEL-US.

You heard it here first.
Correct! I'm disappointed; I honestly though China was beyond such backward displays,openly threatening and warmongering against,fellow Asians no less! Imo,there's a secret play underway to get rid of remnant Khazar influence in China and this episode may be part of the script,regardless of India's non participatory role in said theatre.
In fact the Nepal earthquake 2 years back was a secret message to India:"Chose your friends wisely!"

It was to send a message to the neighbouring Indians only America with its superior technology could protect them from China-and of course possible consequences of annoying the sole remaining hyperpower..
http://karanjazplace.blogspot.co.ke/2016/11/dead-hillary-cgiclone-campaign-stumbles.html
 
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valkyrie_1810

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View attachment 18624
Hahah, can't agree more
This dude is right,but we have seen how things go south when someone like Stalin is kept at place,ffs look at Russia,the communism sucked it inside out and the same is going to happen with China,since this is new world and people are too educated to go on a useless war,but who knows? Atleast the theater will continue till the first wave of army are reduced to dust on both sides,and we have all seen the how the megalomaniac war machine has made its way through false flag attack like 9/11 and how they justified it by invading a set of countries and creating turmoil,War after 1900's have been pure business,and the best Army is our Indian army,we never used our strength to dominate other countries or fight wars for oil.

Fuck I don't know what's on table anymore.
 

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