Indo-China Relations

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Singh, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Indo-China Border Dispute

    The China-India Border Brawl


    The peaceful, side-by-side rise of China and India has been taken for granted in many quarters. But tensions between the two giants are mounting, and Washington would do well to take note. On June 8, New Delhi announced it would deploy two additional army divisions and two air force squadrons near its border with China. Beijing responded furiously to the Indian announcement, hardening its claim to some 90,000 square kilometers of Indian territory that China disputes.

    To understand what the tussle is about, consider recent history: The defining moment in the Sino-Indian relationship is a short but traumatic war fought over the Sino-Indian border in 1962. The details of that conflict are in dispute, but the outcome is not: After a sweeping advance into Indian territory, China gained control over a chunk of contested Tibetan plateau in India's northwest but recalled its advancing army in India's northeast, leaving to New Delhi what is now the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh. Relations have been characterized by mistrust ever since, but neither nation has shown any inclination to return to armed conflict.
    [Commentary] Reuters

    Heating up: The border outpost at Nathu-La.

    In recent years however China has been raising the temperature at the border. Chinese claims to Arunachal Pradesh and frequent Chinese "incursions" into the nearby Indian state of Sikkim have begun to multiply in line with Beijing's rising economic and political influence. Moreover, unlike India, China has methodically developed its infrastructure along the disputed border, littering the barren terrain with highways and railways capable of moving large numbers of goods and troops.

    For its part, New Delhi has become both increasingly aware of its disadvantage and exceedingly suspicious of China's intentions. India's June 8 announcement that it will deploy two additional army mountain divisions to the northeastern state of Assam will bring India's troop levels in the region to more than 100,000. The Indian Air Force, meanwhile, announced it will station two squadrons of advanced Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft in Tezpur, also in Assam. They will be complemented by three Airborne Warning and Control Systems and the addition or upgrade of airstrips and advanced landing stations. This is part of a broader effort to bolster India's military and transportation infrastructure in its neglected northeast.

    Upon hearing India's plans, Beijing became irate. The People's Daily, a Communist Party mouthpiece that serves as a window into the thinking of Beijing's insular leadership, published an exceptional broadside against New Delhi on June 11. It described India's "tough posture" as "dangerous," and asked India to "consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China." China is not afraid of India, the editorial taunted, while mocking India for failing to keep pace with China's economic growth. The editorial reminded New Delhi that Beijing had friends in Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal but most importantly, it left no doubt about Beijing's future position on Arunachal Pradesh: "China won't make any compromises in its border disputes with India."

    This is not the first time China has lost its cool over the border issue. Back in 2006, China's Ambassador to India ignited a political firestorm when he declared the "whole state of Arunachal Pradesh is Chinese territory... we are claiming all of that. That is our position." Later, on two separate occasions, China denied visas to Indian officials from Arunachal Pradesh, explaining Chinese citizens didn't require visas to travel to their own country.

    Generally coy about its suspicions, India has been turning up the diplomatic heat. Indian officials have been speaking more openly about their concerns with China of late. A growing chorus in New Delhi is arguing that India's uniform focus on Pakistan may be exposing it to a threat from the East. Indian officials have also accused China of supporting the Naxalites, a tenacious and growing band of Maoist insurgents Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has described as the "greatest threat to [India's] internal security."

    China has been applying pressures as well. This March, China broke with Asian tradition and tried to block a $2.9 billion loan to India at the Asian Development Bank, furious that the loan would fund a $60 million flood-management program in Arunachal Pradesh. (Last week China was overruled with help from the U.S., and the loan went through.) Before that, Beijing clumsily attempted to torpedo the U.S.-India nuclear deal from its seat at the Nuclear Suppliers Group. And of course, China remains an opponent of India's bid to join the United Nations Security Council and a staunch ally of India's nemesis, Pakistan.

    But what riles India most is China's incursion into its backyard and the belief China is surrounding the subcontinent with its "string of pearls" -- Chinese "investments" in naval bases, commercial ports and listening posts along the southern coast of Asia. There are port facilities in Bangladesh and radar and refueling stations in Burma. Thailand, Cambodia and Pakistan now all host Chinese "projects;" China's crown jewel is the Pakistani deepwater port of Gwadar.

    Then there are Sri Lanka and Nepal, India's immediate neighbors, where civil wars have opened space for Beijing to peddle influence. A bloody insurgency by Maoist rebels in Nepal gave way in 2006 to power-sharing agreement now on the brink of collapse. China has openly supported the Maoists against the royalist establishment backed by India. In Sri Lanka, meanwhile, the decades-long civil war between the Hindu Tamil minority and the Buddhist Sinhalese majority was decisively ended by the latter May, but not before Beijing could gain a foothold in the island-nation. Appalled by the brutality of the fighting, India had scaled back its arms sales to Colombo in recent years. China happily filled the vacuum, in return gaining access to the port at Hambontota on the island's southern coast.

    What is Washington's role in this Asian rivalry? In the short term, a priority must be to tamp down friction over the border. In the longer term, Washington should leverage its friendly relations with both capitals to promote bilateral dialogue and act as an honest broker where invited. But it should also continue to build upon the strategic partnership with India initiated by former president George W. Bush, and support its ally, as it did at the Nuclear Suppliers group and the ADB, where necessary. Washington must also make clear that it considers the established, decades-old border between the two to be permanent.

    Most importantly, though, the Sino-Indian border dispute should be viewed as a test for proponents of China's "peaceful rise" theory. If China becomes adventurous enough to challenge India's sovereignty or cross well-defined red lines, Washington must be willing to recognize the signal and respond appropriately.

    The China-India Border Brawl - WSJ.com
     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I am glad this news has made it to the western press.
     
  4. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    China-India Relations: An Unresolved Border and 60,000 Troops Deployed

    China-India Relations: An Unresolved Border and 60,000 Troops Deployed


    When two countries have gone to war over an unresolved border and one of these announces the deployment of 50,000-60,000 troops and nuclear-capable combat planes along this border, the reader would likely expect the second country to sit up and take notice. This is exactly what happened over the last month between India and China. In response to India’s military buildup, China has published two scathing articles, one in English and the other in Chinese, lambasting India’s move.

    In early June, former Indian Army Chief and current governor of Arunachal Pradesh General J.J. Singh announced that between 50,000 and 60,000 troops will be deployed along the Line of Actual Control on top of future infrastructure and road development projects. In addition to the infantry placements, the Indian Air Force will also open a newly refurbished airbase in Tezpur near Assam. Four nuclear-capable Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter jets arrived there June 13, with plans to increase this to squadron strength of 18 aircraft.

    From the Indian perspective, this bolstering of defenses along the border is in response to well-established Chinese fortifications on the other side, including transport infrastructure. In April 2008, Indian Defense Minister A K Antony visited the region and expressed surprise at the sophistication of Chinese military fornications within the area.

    On June 9, the Chinese Global Times published an editorial entitled “India’s Unwise Military Moves,” which denounced India’s troop deployment. A thinly veiled warning was explicit within the article: “India’s current course can only lead to a rivalry between the two countries. India needs to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China.” An affiliate of the People’s Daily published a Chinese language article on June 12 which translates to “India is a paper tiger and its use of use will be trounced, say experts.” It is a provocative article, even referring to India as a paper tiger is a throwback to the language of Mao.

    However, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang was much more conciliatory, saying on June 11, “China and India have never demarcated their border. To resolve the border issues at an early date is one of the ten strategies of developing China-India relations set by leaders of both countries. We are willing to pursue a fair and reasonable solution through negotiations with India.” President Hu and Prime Minister Singh met last week on the sidelines of the SCO and BRIC summits at Yekaterinburg, Russia. Indian officials then announced that “the next meeting of the Special Representatives tasked with resolving the boundary question was slated for August 7 and 8 in New Delhi.”

    After fighting a brief border war in 1962, the demarcation of the 3500km border between China and India remains unsolved. China came out in a better position after the confrontation, due in part to superior forces and supply lines. Of the 14 countries that China borders, it is only with India that the issue of territorial demarcation remains unresolved.

    In particular, Arunachal Pradesh province in northeastern India has continued to be a bone of significant contention with increased rhetoric from both sides over the past year. Last January, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had a very successful three day visit to China. Yet, later that month, Singh went on a two day visit to Arunachal Pradesh and publicly stated that Arunachal Pradesh is part of India. This drew strong protests from Beijing, where the Chinese Foreign Ministry lodged an official complaint with the Indian Embassy.

    Still, the likelihood of a military border confrontation between India and China remains a low, but existential, possibility. Human error or a misreading of events could be the unintentional trigger for confrontation. An Indian military transport plane crashed very near the Chinese line of control, resulting in thirteen fatalities, on June 10; to date this crash has been reported as an accident.

    Bilateral trade between the two countries has shown dramatic growth over the past eight years. In 2000, China exported approximately $1.5 billion worth of goods to India; in 2008 that figure was $32 billion. India’s exports to China in 2000 totaled only $760 million, but by 2008, this figure had grown to over $20 billion. Both countries classify themselves as developing, and both will become more relevant in global affairs as their economies continue to grow.

    Yet, there are notable elements of distrust between the two countries, which will need to be carefully managed in the future. Both traditional and non-traditional security threats – climate change, water resources and energy needs – pose obstacles to bilateral relations.

    South Asia has enough problems and does not need a military confrontation between India and China added to that list. China has successfully negotiated border boundaries with former Soviet states; earlier this year, Vietnam and China agreed upon the final demarcation of their land border. This unresolved border dispute between China and India is an unnecessary impediment to furthering ties between the two states.

    China and India combined have over one third of the world’s population living within their borders; it is for the benefit of these people that the leaders of both countries must resolve the border question. The status quo has existed for over 45 years, and it is difficult to understand why two leading states like China and India cannot negotiate and agree on a political resolution to this matter. Bilateral relations will dramatically improve, as will economic ties, once these two determine the international boundary that separates them. In the current scenario there are two losers, China and India, and this need not be the case.

    China-India Relations: An Unresolved Border and 60,000 Troops Deployed | Atlantic Council
     
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  5. SammyCheung

    SammyCheung Guest

    Here is the Chinese article referred to:

    Editorial: India’s unwise military moves

    In the last few days, India has dispatched roughly 60,000 troops to its border with China, the scene of enduring territorial disputes between the two countries.

    J.J. Singh, the Indian governor of the controversial area, said the move was intended to “meet future security challenges” from China. Meanwhile, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh claimed, despite cooperative India-China relations, his government would make no concessions to China on territorial disputes.

    The tough posture Singh’s new government has taken may win some applause among India’s domestic nationalists. But it is dangerous if it is based on a false anticipation that China will cave in.

    India has long held contradictory views on China. Another big Asian country, India is frustrated that China’s rise has captured much of the world’s attention. Proud of its “advanced political system,” India feels superior to China. However, it faces a disappointing domestic situation which is unstable compared with China’s.

    India likes to brag about its sustainable development, but worries that it is being left behind by China. China is seen in India as both a potential threat and a competitor to surpass.

    But India can’t actually compete with China in a number of areas, like international influence, overall national power and economic scale. India apparently has not yet realized this. Indian politicians these days seem to think their country would be doing China a huge favor simply by not joining the “ring around China” established by the US and Japan.

    India’s growing power would have a significant impact on the balance of this equation, which has led India to think that fear and gratitude for its restraint will cause China to defer to it on territorial disputes.

    But this is wishful thinking, as China won’t make any compromises in its border disputes with India. And while China wishes to coexist peacefully with India, this desire isn’t born out of fear.

    India’s current course can only lead to a rivalry between the two countries. India needs to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China. It should also be asking itself why it hasn’t forged the stable and friendly relationship with China that China enjoys with many of India’s neighbors, like Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

    Any aggressive moves will certainly not aid the development of good relations with China. India should examine its attitude and preconceptions; it will need to adjust if it hopes to cooperate with China and achieve a mutually beneficial outcome.


    Global Times - Editorial: India?s unwise military moves
     
  6. Arjak

    Arjak Respected Member

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    india has so far taken no aaggressive moves buddy.........this are simply reactions to chinese actions.........AP is a an integral part of india and we have every right to protect and place troops in our land...........this sd mean and has nothing to do with any foreign country.............aggression means attempt to annex land of others,and we can see who' doin it.........peacefull china, huh????
     
  7. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    After reading the chinese version, no one would believe that China's rise is going to be peaceful. Its clear that PRC has hegemonic objectives in entire south asia. Its rise is a threat to the security, stability and peace of the region. Only India's rise can balance the power equation and provide security, stability and peace to the region.
     
  8. MMuthu

    MMuthu Regular Member

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    India also wishes to co-exist peacefully with China, and this intention is not born out of fear... India from day 1 thinks China as a friend, It is the Chinese who attacked India First.

    We can confront anyone..... We confronted the Americans during 1971..... Do the chinese try to threaten us?

    Dare to attack us.... forget Taiwan annexure.... forget having strong economy in future to challenge US.

    2009 is not 1962..... If you come for an adventure we will give a befitting reply that you will not forget even in your dreams. Arunachal Pradesh is a integral Part of India..... China can claim... but who is going to give it to china...... You can dream of getting AP.... because as a democratic citizen we encourage everyone to dream.:india:
     
  9. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    it is good to see atlast india is now more focus on china then pakista...
     
  10. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    An effective deterrent is the only solution. No amount of diplomacy will work if China gets an overwhelming conventional edge. Smile broadly and carry a big stick.
     
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  11. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    Arunachal Pradesh moots supplementary force to aid army (Lead, superseding earlier story)
    2009-06-24 15:00:00

    The strategic northeastern Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, large parts of which China claims, hopes to raise a 5,000-strong force comprising local people to supplement the efforts of the Indian Army during war or war like situations, says its governor.

    'It will be an indigenous force modelled after the Ladakh Scouts. It will be an advantage to the defence forces in case of emergencies,' Governor J.J. Singh, a former Indian Army chief, told IANS in an interview here.

    'The force will be around 5,000-strong. The Ladakh Scouts had helped us immensely during the (1999) Kargil war (with Pakistan) and the proposed force will be of similar help,' Singh said, adding that during war or war-like situations, the force can 'help the army in understanding the local language, intricate nuances of geography and other details'.

    The governor, who is here to attend the ongoing Singapore International Water Week, was optimistic of getting the central government's nod to raise the new force.

    'We are in talks with the defence ministry and the response is really positive so far. though they will be in the Ladakh Scouts' grade, they will get their salary from the central government. The army will take care of the training. The people of the state are really looking forward to it as it will generate employment for them,' Singh said.

    The Indian Army's Ladakh Scouts are a 4,000-man force largely made up of local Buddhists. Nicknamed the 'Snow Tigers' they are one of the army's most decorated units, with more than 300 gallantry awards to their credit.

    Singh said that as an army officer, he had seen first hand the benefits of such a force and now, as the governor of Arunachal Pradesh, he would like to replicate the force in the state.

    Earlier this month, IANS had reported that India was ramping up its military deployment along the border with China in Arunachal Pradesh, positioning two army divisions, each comprising around 25,000 to 30,000 personnel, as also a squadron of frontline Sukhoi Su-30 MKI combat jets at a key airbase in the northeast.

    'To develop India's capability to effectively meet the future security challenges, deployment of more troops along the India-China border is necessary,' Singh had told reporters in the Arunachal Pradesh capital Itanagar.

    He said two army divisions, each comprising around 25,000 to 30,000 personnel, along with artillery, medical, signals and engineering support, would be positioned along the border.

    'The exercise would be completed in a phased manner in the next few years along with development of roads and other infrastructure along the borders,' Singh said.

    'Increase of the force level, and improvement of weapons, fighting platforms, intelligence acquiring and other equipment are aimed at enhancing the capabilities of the Army troopers to effectively meet any sort of challenges,' he added.

    This apart, an initial squadron of four Su-30MKIs have become operational at the Tezpur air base in Assam. This will be gradually raised to 18-20 aircraft.

    The Tezpur base is within striking distance of the Chinese border along Arunachal Pradesh.

    Beijing had in 2003 given up its territorial claim over the Indian state of Sikkim but was still holding on to its old stand that a vast stretch of Arunachal Pradesh belongs to them.

    The India-China border along Arunachal Pradesh is marked by the McMahon Line, a notional border which is now known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

    India and China fought a bitter border war in 1962, with Chinese troops advancing deep into Arunachal Pradesh and inflicting heavy casualties on Indian troops.

    Arunachal Pradesh moots supplementary force to aid army (Lead, superseding earlier story)
     
  12. SammyCheung

    SammyCheung Guest

    But China does have an overwhelming conventional and nuclear edge. Realistically India's military is 20 years behind the China.

    From the air, 18 MKI cannot compare to the number of J-10's China can bring. China has about 150 J-10's. Then on top of that there are the J-11Bs. Expect at least 70 of those.

    Once air is controlled, we can start moving in lots of troops on railroad.

    Even in the sea, China totally has the advantage. China can spare about 3 of our more advanced attack submarines to interdict shipping to Indian coast or even engage the Indian navy.
     
  13. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    china has the quantitative edge,

    india has the qualitative advantage..
     
  14. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, you have a conventional edge, but not an overwhelming one. India can defend its territory against China. Don't have any illusions about that.
     
  15. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Exactly. If and when the conventional edge is decisively tilted towards China, then India would have a real big headache. And India is trying to deny China that kind of advantage. The recent troop mobilisation is step towards that direction.
     
  16. MMuthu

    MMuthu Regular Member

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    As I told earlier.... Try for an adventure.... you will know.

    The test which India undertakes is open and fair.... if Agni fails.... the information is open for all...
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    first thing, India is not going to war with China tomorrow. Not in the next 5 yrs. So the 18 MKIs will become more than a 100 and eventually 240.

    Don't brandish your F16 clone J10 to India. Everyone knows what the Indian MiG 21s did to American F16s.

    As far as your navy goes, it cannot sustain it's lines till the Mallacas. We can squeeze you oil supply and container ships anytime.
     
  18. SammyCheung

    SammyCheung Guest

    India has NO advantage. China actually makes equipment that India tries to buy from other countries. PLA is not for parades.

    I think China can maintain a supply line to your so called AP.

    Nobody is going to go nuclear over AP anyway.

    The air force gap is only getting bigger over time. Not only is J-10 a 4 gen aircraft, the new J-10B is a 4.5 gen. In the future, India will be facing a country that can mass produce its own 4.5 gen fighters!

    We can't supply past Mallacas but SSN like Type 093 can go months on patrol. That will be enough.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    i am sure some/many western nations will be involved since a powerful China is not in anyone's best interest there may be many weapons sent to India along with military men to make sure the Chinese threat is demolished right from the start.
     
  20. Koji

    Koji New Member

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    Nope. Japanese, Taiwanese, American, Western involvement are just delusions. There is no serious indication that they will fight. If you have a source saying otherwise, please post it.
     
  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I don't think you can speak for USA or any of the other countries , this is the perfect opportunity for USA knock the chinese hot shots right out of the box for challenging USA for the top spot I am sure USA will use it well. This will be the perfect opportunity to stop the Chinese rise and preserve USA on top for decades to come, what taiwan and japan do is irrelevant. USA is not going to publicize what they do for you with a link, this will be nice payback for Vietnam and Korea.
     

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