Indo-China relations

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by A.V., Aug 15, 2009.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    relations between india and china all news and developments
     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    China aims to block India’s place in the sun

    China aims to block India?s place in the sun Riding the Elephant

    China aims to block India’s place in the sun

    It’s probably the tip of the iceberg of China’s ambitions to thwart India’s emergence as a significant economic and maybe diplomatic and military power. I’m referring to what might appear to some to be a crazy article on a Chinese strategic issues website, which claims that China could “dismember the so-called ‘Indian Union’ with one little move”.

    The writer has argued that India’s national unity is weak and that China could exploit this by supporting separatist forces, such as those active in India’s north-east state of Assam, and split the country into 20 or 30 sovereign states.

    “There cannot be two suns in the sky. China and India cannot really deal with each other harmoniously,” said the article. That almost certainly reflects Beijing thinking, even though the founder of the website has claimed the anonymous writer has no known government links.

    The article was posted last Saturday and was publicised in India yesterday, prompting the Indian foreign ministry to say it appeared to be “an expression of individual opinion and does not accord with the officially stated position of China on India-China relations conveyed to us on several occasions”. But what else could India say – especially since the article coincided with apparently cordial talks between the two countries on their border that has been disputed since China defeated India in a brief 1962 Himalayan war.

    It is not unusual for China to fly such extreme kites. Philip Bowring of the Hong Kong-based Asia Sentinel website pointed out in a New York Times article two days ago that the arrest last week of two Rio Tinto executives in Beijing for alleged theft and corruption followed an internet article written by an official of China’s National Administration for the Protection of State Secrets, which accused Rio of commercial “spying” that had cost the nation $100bn in higher iron ore prices – an accusation says Bowring that “does not stand up to the most casual scrutiny of trade data”. Bowring then points out that “although the article is no longer on the website, its claims have not been corrected and its imprint on Chinese minds will not disappear”.

    The imprint of the India internet article will also not disappear because, whatever the two countries may say officially, it sums up what has been happening for years.

    As James Lamont and Amy Kazmin explained a month ago in an excellent FT round-up of the two countries’ tortuous relations, China has been encircling India by developing influence and outposts in Pakistan, Nepal, Myanmar, and Sri Lanka, and wants to usurp India’s major role in controlling the Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea.

    Pakistan, which China has armed and helped become a nuclear power, has been destabilising India first in Punjab (in the 1980s) and then in Kashmir. China has also for years been encouraging separatist forces in India’s north-eastern states, including Assam, and will no doubt use its growing clout in Myanmar – and Bangladesh – to increase those activities. In the future it could perhaps use its growing influence in Sri Lanka – where it is developing a naval base and advised the government in the recent defeat of the Tamil Tiger separatists – to cause unrest among linked Tamil communities in southern India.

    It has also strengthened its border claims – for example by opposing a $3bn Asian Development Bank aid project in Arunachal Pradesh, an Indian border state that China claims as “south Tibet”. And it tried to block international approval of the recent India-US nuclear deal with the US.

    This is of course a dangerous game and sometimes India has to respond – recently for example by moving fighter jets to the China border.

    I have heard a former senior Indian bureaucrat argue privately that China’s basic – and permanent – aim is to force India to focus on domestic issues and thus thwart it becoming a future international rival.

    China, according to this view – which is surely correct – is determined to be the world’s sole superpower after America, and does not want that status to be upset by a strong and democratic India backed by the US and Europe. Its tactics have become more insistent in the past two years as it has become irritated by India’s growing links with the US, culminating in the nuclear deal.

    Everything that China does in relation to India therefore has to be seen through that prism. India will not fragment into 20 or 30 pieces – it is far too unified for that – but there is no prospect of permanent peace and co-operation between the two countries because, as the internet writer has said, “there cannot be two suns in the sky”.
     
  4. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    What strikes me as most appalling in this article is the fact that China has used numerous avenues to strike at India and keep India down. However, it seems that the Indian govt. is either too inept or too blind to realize this fact and just keeps on preaching some nonsense about how China and India are best buddies...
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Indian govt, has taken some steps -naval exercises and diplomacy/defense pact with USA are some examples.
     
  6. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    Bah..diplomacy doesn't work with the Chinese...they say one thing but in reality they do something totally opposite.
     
  7. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Dont forget ...Recently China has been caught red handed in its effort to infame Indian Pharma Industry by flooding African countries with fake "Made in India" drugs. may be it's also a tip of an iceburg....
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I agree ,at the same time we have set up air bases, and AGNIS's in AP, chinese only understand force; and until it is used against them they will not back down.
     
  9. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    I get a feeling that China is the [Nazi Germany] of 21st century, overconfident and over-aggressive. Will India prove to be Russia of 21st century? Will we give them their "Stalingrad"?
     
  10. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yet another opinion piece, lifted from a blog, referring to another opinion piece.

    Can we stem the hysteria please?
     
  11. advaita

    advaita Regular Member

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    I too feel the same and my views stem from history and trends and some necessary corollaries. I have to write long essays to keep the string of thoughts unbaised and well linked. If I dont do that I will end up like Pakis. All sensibilities no sense.

    Just droping a hint here. Pls dont take it otherwise.
     
  12. johnell

    johnell New Member

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  13. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    great to meet you on dfi sir, we were just discussing your piece on this thread and we have the original author of the article along with us,thats really good we welcome you to DFI and hope you will spend some of your precious time with us...
    i have sent you a mail would request you to please go through it once
     
  14. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    India, China armies clash?

    The Indian and Chinese armies have reportedly been locked in sporadic exchanges of fire in Sikkim, where the two countries share a high-altitude border, since Tuesday night.

    A senior defence ministry official in Kolkata, where the Eastern Command is based, said the conflict had been on at Nathu-la pass — 54 km east of Sikkim’s capital Gangtok.

    In a statement issued on Thursday, the Ministry of Defence, however, denied any shooting on the border.

    The defence official, who refused to be identified, said, “The gunbattle intensified during the early hours of Wednesday. There are, however, no reports of any death or serious injuries.”

    He said although India had not deployed any additional forces in the area, all civilian traffic had been stopped. But the ministry statement said the roads had been closed in the area because of landslides.

    The official said, “The skirmish caused concern as at a special joint meeting on August 15 both sides reaffirmed their resolve to strengthen the existing friendship.”

    Situated at 14,140 feet, Nathu-la reopened for trade in 2006 after the 1962 Sino-Indian War.
     
  15. EagleOne

    EagleOne Regular Member

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    China wants ‘healthy, dynamic’ ties with India: Wen Jiabao

    India and China on Monday discussed new ideas aimed at taking forward the bilateral ties keeping in view mutual concerns and interests, as Beijing sought a “healthy, stable and dynamic” relationship with far-reaching significance to the two nations, Asia and the world at large.

    National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, who is here on a 4-day visit as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s Special Envoy, called on Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao at Zhongnanhai, the sprawling leadership compound next to the Forbidden City.

    Mr. Wen warmly received Mr. Menon and appreciated Dr. Singh’s commitment to the improvement of bilateral ties during their 40-minute meeting, a day ahead of the scheduled visit of President Asif Ali Zardari here against the backdrop of concerns expressed by India and the U.S. over China’s plans to build two new nuclear reactors for Pakistan without NSG’s nod.

    Mr. Menon handed over a letter from Dr. Singh, saying that the Prime Minister especially sent him with a personal message of friendship and his greetings and warm personal regards.

    “For us in India the relationship with People’s Republic of China is one of the most important that we have,” Mr. Menon said.

    Mr. Wen, on his part, said that “a healthy, stable and dynamic China-India relationship is of far-reaching significance to the two nations, Asia and the whole world at large.”

    “China regards India as an important strategic partner of cooperation. We will work with India to maintain high-level visits and take care of each other’s core interests and major concerns,” state-run Xinhua news agency quoted Mr. Wen as telling Mr. Menon.

    He pledged to enhance dialogue and cooperation with India to benefit the two peoples and make joint efforts to promote world peace and common prosperity. Mr. Wen also extended greetings to UPA Chairperson Sonia Gandhi.

    Mr. Menon said both India and China have developed rapidly in recent years and the two nations have established a strategic partnership of cooperation, with increasing mutual trust.

    He said this has laid a sound foundation for strengthening bilateral cooperation.

    With the world going through an important development phase, both India and China should take bigger role in directing its course, Mr. Menon said.

    India would work with China to jointly make development planning and create new situations for the growth of bilateral ties, he noted.

    Mr. Wen told Mr. Menon that Dr. Singh had sent an “important and timely message” last year for the improvement of ties.

    “This time you brought another personal letter from the Prime Minister” expressing similar sentiments, he said. “We highly appreciate his commitment to this relationship.”
    http://thehindu.com/news/national/article501547.ece
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Carpe diem quam minime credula postero – "Seize the day, trusting as little as possible in the future"
     
  17. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    even there's no 'trust', at least below is attainable
    aren't most relationships characterised by those adjectives? Sino-Japan, Japan-Korea, Sino-Korea, or Sino-Russia, or even Sino-US?
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    All relationships between countries to be successful has to be healthy, stable and dynamic .

    In the case of China, it is moot point if the relationship with any country is healthy, stable and dynamic .

    Obama received HH the Dalai Lama at the Blair House instead of the Oval Office.

    Speaks volumes of the Sino - US relationship and the extent to which it is healthy, stable and dynamic .

    In so far as the article is concerned, it does not allude to any initiatives that will make the Sino - Indian relationship healthy, stable and dynamic . Instead, it is the usual mealy mouthed pious platitudes that emanates from the Forbidden City with pretentious sagacity.

    All relationships are hyphenated relationships.

    Indeed, such relationships should all be “healthy, stable and dynamic” .

    In actuality, such words are quite meaningless in practice.

    The Sino - Indian relationship, by a long chalk is not healthy, nor stable, nor dynamic. Could it be that China feels that relationships are only “healthy, stable and dynamic” when the other Nation in the hyphenated relationship toes the Chinese line?

    The Chinese aggressive foreign and economic policy has interestingly given dividends to them. Obama, the US President, had to receive HH The Dalai Lama not in the Oval Office, and instead in the Blair House.
     
  19. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    t

    being pragmatic, Chinese don't have the illusion others will always 'toe the line'. Confucius says 'to get along with others, but does not necessarily agree with them'.

    the example Obama received HH Dalai Lama in Blair House i/o Oval Office correctly reflects the art of 'to get along with China' though not agreeing with China. It's not toeing the line of others but an outcome of good calculation. The differences remain there but life goes on- the US 'sincerely' supports HH as a 'spiritual leader' championing 'freedom and human rights' , while China from another angle attacks HH as a separatist 'politician'. This game will be on and on.

    (Case - India barred a 'spiritual leader' Chief of moderate Hurriyat of Kashmir from attending a conference in Beijing)

    “healthy, stable and dynamic" sounds cliche but is worth pursuing. Will India toe the line of China? Of course not and vice versa. But the two sides certainly can have a healthy cooperation over certain issues, stably navigate through differences, and develop dynamic ties in fields where both can. They can't be 'intimate friends', but at least can choose to be 'reasonable neighbors'.
     

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