Indien Panzer

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Kunal Biswas, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Indien Panzer

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    In the 1950's of the post-war world, many German engineers temporarily moved to Switzerland. However, given the lack of work (they had been working on weapons for a long time, after all), they needed to find something to do. Fortunately for the Germans, the Indians came along and opened a bid for an Indian tank.

    What resulted from the contest was a joint effort of many German firms: Porsche for overall design, Daimler-Benz MB-837A 8-cyl diesel engine, Zahnradfabrik AG of Friedrichshafen track, Ruhrstahl for turret and gun. Optics and sights, as well as general production, was to be done in India The following are the general specifications from that project:

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    Years of development: 1954-1955.
    Weight: Indian demand expected weight about 36-39 tons, the Germans projected about 40 tons.
    Crew: 4
    Engine: 8-cylinder diesel Daimler-Benz MB-837A, 670 hp
    Power to weight ratio: 16.7 hp/ton
    Maximum speed: 50 km/h
    Caliber gun: 90 mm (Most likely a German adaptation of the 90 mm Gun M3 or the 9 cm PzKan 48)
    Armor: Hull 90/90/40, turret 130/90/45, all of it cast

    India became an independent nation in 1947; therefor this tank project would have been to meet the young nations early military needs. Unfortunately, the Indians did not have the ability to cast such large parts (a problem that would plague many rising tank developers), and the winner was the Vickers with the Vijayanta, which was built entirely from welded rolled steel plates. However, this was not the end of the project, for it was the basis of the KW30, which in turn was the ancestor of the whole line of the Swiss Pz series.

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    Indien Panzer design bears a strong resemblance to the Swiss Panzer 61 as well as its predecessor the Panzer 58; the Panzer 58 being from the same period as the Indien-Panzer.

    @ersakthivel @sayareakd Sir @Keshav Murali
    @Damian, @methos @Dejawolf

    If this is true than it can be assumed than German technicians had connecting with DRDO even after Indien-Panzer got cancelled, Its very possible that small German team unit help designing Arjun with DRDO, Now that is only if this story is true ..

    German speaking members can find few more clue as you have more understanding of the system of your country regarding records such as this ..

    Thank you.

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    Source :

    Sherman Register - India
    ZF Friedrichshafen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Indien-Panzer - World Of Tanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. Rahul M

    Rahul M Regular Member

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    great find kunal !
     
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  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Wow @Kunal Biswas, you never cease to amaze me. You are way ahead of the rest in posting defense related stuff. Kudos.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  5. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

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    wow...grt stuff
     
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  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Thanks, I am looking for more clues ..

    Some names now came up on screen, It may well end up to the designing team which collaborated with DRDO in late 70s and early 80s in Arjun MBT project ..
     
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  7. Dinesh_Kumar

    Dinesh_Kumar Regular Member

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    Dada, superb post as always. If India had gone ahead with this panzer,there is no guarantee that we would have become self sufficient in armoured vehicles. Any no. of western and russian systems are being made by OFB, and expected returns have not materialized. Only an effort like the Arjun has helped somewhat.
     
  8. methos

    methos Regular Member

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    It is true, but "no" to the rest of this quote. First of all there is not a single Indian-language source (or at least none here managed to present one) and also no single German-language source about any German contribution to the Arjun programme, besides that MTU and Renk sold export versions of their products, after the solutions developed by DRDO failed.
    Just look at the list of companies:
    - Ruhrstahl: went bankrupt and was sold to Rheinstahl.
    - Porsche: stopped working on military hardware in the 1960s.
    - Daimler-Benz: does only produce one thing; engines. But the Arjun uses a MTU engine.
    - ZF Friedrichshafen: only produces transmissions, but Arjun uses a Renk transmission.
     
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  9. Hemu Vikram Aditya

    Hemu Vikram Aditya Senior Member Senior Member

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    This Indein Panzer Tank Is also in the Game World of Tanks and an excellent Medium Tank
     
  10. BrutusMarcus

    BrutusMarcus Regular Member

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    The tank seems to have taken quite a few design elements from the Russian T-34. The cliche'ed hull and rolling chassis, with the turrent placed over the front half. A very similar similar sort of running gear too; 5 large wheels on either side with no track return rollers.

    Maybe they intentionally did that. The T-34, afterall, was low tech enough for an undeveloped country to manufacture, and a minimalistic but tough powertrain was ultra reliable.
    It's no secret that the Germans preferred to use captured T-34's to some of thier own tanks in the eastern front, only painted over with german insignia. One such T-34 doing duty with the Germans was recently pulled out from a pond in eastern Europe, so beautifully preserved that the German insignia still looked like it was recently painted over. It didn't take them very long it get it running again either, again with minimum work, and that says a lot about the tank (it's all over the net; pictures and info).
     
  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Indien Panzer was never made out for prototyping, But closes resembles was Panzer 58 ..
     
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