India's visa rule is unfairly persecuting innocent Pakistanis

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Ray, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    India's visa rule is unfairly persecuting innocent Pakistanis

    Being born in Pakistan is not a evidence of predisposition to commit terrorist acts. The visa rules are racist, and must change

    o Robert Wintemute
    o guardian.co.uk, Saturday 14 August 2010 12.00 BST


    • Most people would be shocked if they went to the visa website of a London embassy and read: "Processing time is two to three days for British citizens, but seven to eight weeks for British citizens of Jewish origin". Indeed, advertising an intention to discriminate is contrary to the Race Relations Act 1976. Yet, explicit discrimination of this kind can be found on the website for visas for India: "Processing time for UK Nationals is a minimum of 2-3 working days ... Processing time of applications received from persons of Pakistani origin [including British citizens] will be minimum 7-8 weeks."
    • Pakistani ethnic origin is detected through questions about place of birth and previous nationality, both for the applicant and their parents. Disclosing a link with Pakistan triggers demands for extra information and a long processing period, which in many cases makes travel to India impossible. India is effectively banning more than half a million British citizens of Pakistani origin from travelling to India as tourists, on business, or to participate in academic conferences or student exchange programmes.
    • Looking behind a British passport and treating an individual differently, because they or their parents were born in Pakistan, is direct or indirect racial discrimination violating UK, European and international human rights law. It cannot be justified under any circumstances, because it is a first step down a very slippery slope of racism.
    • In 1933, Nazi Germany excluded German citizens of Jewish origin from the civil service. In 1942, the United States arrested all US citizens of Japanese origin living on the west coast, and transferred them to prison camps. It makes no difference that India is practising racial discrimination against British citizens rather than its own. India would object very strongly if Australia, Canada, China or the US made it much harder for British citizens of Indian origin (but not Pakistani origin) to obtain a tourist visa.
    • India's racist visa rule is an irrational response to the tragic attacks in Mumbai in November 2008. The attackers arrived by sea, without visas, deliberately evading all border controls. No visa rule of any kind could have stopped them. The rule appears to be based on the case of the convicted terrorist David Headley, a US citizen of Pakistani origin who made several trips to Mumbai to scout locations for the attacks. But when he applied for an Indian visa, Headley failed to disclose his previous name, and falsely stated that his father's name was Headley. Terrorists planning to kill or assist killers will not be deterred by questions on a visa application form. They will give false information. But thousands of innocent people of Pakistani origin who answer truthfully may find themselves barred from India.
    • Under UK, European and international human rights law, suspicion of potential to commit a crime must be based on an individual's own conduct, not on their racial or ethnic origin. India should apply the same security check to all British citizens applying for visas. If the check reveals no cause for concern, the visa should be issued. Being born in Pakistan, or the child of a person born in Pakistan, is not a crime, nor evidence of predisposition to commit terrorist acts in India. In the 1980s, India could have been accused of "exporting terrorism". The 1985 bombing of an Air India 747 flying from Montreal to London killed 329 people, including 280 Canadian citizens. This terrible crime was linked to extremist Sikh nationalism in India. Should Canada have retaliated by adopting a similar rule, requiring British and US citizens of Indian origin to apply for visas, issued after a long wait, if at all?
    • During the painful recovery from traumatic terrorist attacks, it is tempting for governments to abandon human rights principles and impose sweeping restrictions on the innocent. But this temptation must be resisted. This weekend, we celebrate the independence days of Pakistan and India, and recall (many of us with shame) Britain's role in the partition and its bloody aftermath, which includes the unfinished business of Kashmir.
    • The vast majority of British citizens sincerely hope that India and Pakistan will find a way to end their cold war. But India's decision to punish British (US, Canadian and other) citizens of Pakistani origin, by making it extremely difficult for them to travel to India, will do nothing to help resolve its conflict with Pakistan. On the contrary, it will cause those who are denied visas to resent India for excluding them, rather than praise India's democracy and economic growth, after their visits. And it puts British universities and employers sending groups of students or staff to India in a very difficult position. Should they cancel the trip for all, or say to their fellow British citizens "No Pakistanis need apply"?


    *******************


    It appears that there is a lobby in the UK that is out to do down India.

    First, there was this New Delhi super bug, the scare started in the Lancet Journal with the main aim to scare off not only British people but also the international sick from coming to India for quality treatment at cheap rates, which even the developed nations cannot match in costs and even quality.

    And now this baloney about India visa policy being Nazi like!!

    Wintermute may feel that eight weeks for processing visa application for nationals of any country of Pakistani origin racist. However, it is not. This delay is but the justifiable reaction to David Headley, who being a US citizen had free access to India but had secretly worked for the ISI because of his Pakistani origin allegiance.

    The audacity of Wintermute knows no bound and his colonial mindset is so obvious! He states that the Indian policy is against the discriminate is contrary to the Race Relations Act 1976. This poor professor, who claims to be educated, is so illiterate that he has forgotten that India no longer is a British colony that has to obey British Law! That there country is in a mess is indicative of the fact that they require such an Act.

    Wintermute’s heart might bleed for the Pakistani origin British, but has he ever wondered who is responsible for the Indo Pakistan discord? Historically, the British played the Indian Muslim against the Indian Hindus and then left a cauldron burning called Kashmir! He should do some heart searching and should self flagellate himself in penance as the Opus Dei adherent do instead of shedding crocodile tears!

    One could remind this so called Professor that Canada discriminates against granting visa to those Indians who have served in the Security Forces and claims that they are justified as the Indian security forces are guilty en masse for human rights abuses!! Now, Wintermute seems too frozen on that issue and instead obfuscate. He also forgets that Australia had a ‘Whites Only’ immigration policy and because of economic necessities opened up to some extent! These white nations are ever ready to hector without pausing to think of their gory and disgusting past!!

    When Headley came to India there was no rule where anyone had to give info whether he was of Pakistani origin. Therefore, this man Wintermute conveniently obfuscates issues to inflame people.

    As far as the 1985 bombing of an Air India 747, Sikhs of Indian origin in Canada are allowed entry, but not the terrorists, whom he conveniently call Sikh Nationalist! Indicates how he wishes to carry on the British nefarious and Machiavellian policy of divide and rule and inflame! He also forgets that the Canadian Govt whitewashed the probe since they were worried that the Sikh terrorists would give the Canadians a good hiding of their lives!

    What is the idea of the British having ‘shame’ over what he call quaintly as the ‘unfinished business of Kashmir’. Having lit the fire, false pretensions cannot douse the fire and instead Wintermute only plays to the gallery to keep the flames burning! A scheming man no coubt.

    If British citizens/ professors/ students of Pakistani origin cannot come to India or are delayed, so be it. India is a sovereign nation that has to protect its homeland. It cannot be hectored or browbeaten to obey imperialist designs!
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Americans do profiling of all south asians. sikhs were looked upon as Taliban because of the Turbans. Head scarfs are being banned in some countries. This is War on Terror. Lots of civil liberties have been infringed upon. Pakistanis would be better served to lobby people ruling their native country to get some sanity. They are now not even getting funds for natural calamity whereas Haiti got truck loads of it. What will they call that? Smell coffee and introspect.
     
  4. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Sir,

    i might be wrong but it seems guardian.co.uk has some special love for india. i have been following them since cameron's visit, and since they have come across extremely critical of india.

    they bashed cameron's remarks against pakistan, they carried a cartoon which showed cameron with foot in mouth when zardari was to pay him a visit, they gave extensive coverage to miliband's remark of cameron being a loud mouth.

    come floods and for some reason more than the pakistanis it seemed they were more disturbed that india was not providing aid to pakistan, and were more interested in covering india making hay off these floods by selling sugar to pakistan. one of the paper's which was extremely critical of zardari's overseas visit at a time when pakistan was wrecked by floods.

    and now this.

    -------------

    anyone who has been following this paper for long, with a better insight on them as to what sort of an ideology do they follow?
     
  5. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Firstly no Pakistani is innocent. Pakistani come to India to use all over luxuries but then talk anti about India back home. There are many prominent sports person, celebs who are from Pak and they are being treated nicely here but end up talking anti national back home.

    Why should we entertain Pakis in our country when the risk of terrorism is at time best. Besides is it not disgusting to entertain a guest who speaks bad about your house.

    People like Shahrukh Khan says sports and politics should not mix and we must entertain their players. He should understand that Anti national superseeds sports, politics and business. Till Pakistan denounces terrorism lets make sure that no Pakis are allowed in India except for medical treatment.
     
  6. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Hey isn't this guy when probed ran away from the show? Guys if any one has the footage of Times Now please post it, this guy caught with his pants down by mr. arnab and mr. mahroof. mr. mahroof has given him a solid beating. Was fun to watch
     
  7. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Ray sir,
    most of the UK paper guardian, BBC etc are india baiter.its very rare to hear anything positive from these news outlets.Why dont the repoter questions about the racist visa policies of UK govt. after 7/11 london tube bombings.With the examples of Daoud gilani and tawah-ur-rana in front of us does this repoter need any other example of terrorists misusing indian visas.BTW both daud gilani and tawh-ur-rana comes from the so called ellite class of pakistan just like times square bomber faisal shazad.World knows how innocent pakistanis are when you ve pakistanis getting caught under anti-terror laws all over the world.time has come to racially profile any one who has even slightest connection with pakistan.
     
  8. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    Nitesh here it is ..

    After writing a discriminatory article that compared India visa rules to Nazi Germany. Robert Wintemute spoke to editor in Chief Arnab Goswami. Wintemute first vehemently refused to apologise, then he went so far as to dub India's concern over his report as petty. When shown factual inaccuracies in his report, the Professer backed down..and stormed out.

    <script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?deepLinkEmbedCode=hwb2luMTpxBHKCjMTJImeABEI8R85AFJ&autoplay=1&embedCode=hwb2luMTpxBHKCjMTJImeABEI8R85AFJ"></script>

    http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4351802.cms
     
  9. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    coming to the specifics of this article, if i am not mistaken britain has moved the visa office from pakistan to dubai and britain hardly hands out any visas these days to a pakistani, and if true, Mr Robert Wintemute needs to be more worried about that.

    as far a pakistanis are concerned, if one of them is a terrorist who plans to pay a visit to our country via britain, then that person wont be shouting s/he is a terrorist, it is for us to cross check it, and india has every right to do it. it was after all a british PM who claimed 75% of all acts of terrorism across the globe and in britain are found to have roots to pakistan and pakistanis, and the story with india is slightly different where the % is slightly more and all backed with solid proof, unlike rhetoric on part of pakistan who can just make claim with out a shred of evidence of india's involvement.
     
  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Have they ever criticised pak sponsored terror? ISI,AQ,Talib nexus etc? How their country has been two timed and screwed by Pakistanis? Or are they on their payroll?
     
  11. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Every news paper/media in the world has to stick to its ideology. Thats the way they survive by picking a topic. IF every news paper/media sticks to same topic what will happen to sales. A classic example when Times now exposed the CWG corruption, not all channels beamed it. It was when it got serious thats when other channels started to talk about it.

    Basic concept, sell something controversial to grab attention.
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Guardian is a pro Labour Party newspaper.

    Milliband, who was the Foreign Secretary of the Labour Govt was always pro Pakistan even though Gordon Brown said that most of the world terrorism emanated from Pakistan. He is the son of the late Marxist theorist Ralph Miliband. Born in London, Miliband is the son of Jewish immigrants, Belgian-born Marxist Ralph Miliband and Marion Kozak from Poland.
     
  13. VersusAllOdds

    VersusAllOdds Regular Member

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    He was pro-Pakistani (Milliband) because he's diehard pro US. That wretch was the one who wholeheartedly supported Kosovo indempendence too.

    As for the discrimination of Pakistanis being "justified", welcome to Germany under Hitler's rule. That's how it begins. Such attitudes do nothing but support the same anti-Indian sentiment that exists (wherever it exists). I guess that nobody on this forum would like to see how white people would fit Indians only as bus drivers and blue collars, as they consider them dirty lesser (I've heard that exact story from an English guy), but discrimination for Pakistanis is ok? Well guess what, Pakistanis have the same opinions of Indians, and that's why the whole thing is where it is now.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I don't think that the British like Pakistanis any better than they do of Indians.

    They coined the word "Paki' as a slur.

    It is just that they are afraid of the Pakistanis since they are capable of great harm to Great Britain by their terrorist actions, which the Indians don't indulge in.
     
  15. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Well, India is a sovereign country, it can decide on who it should allow to come in and who shouldn't based on its security threat assessment. With Pakistanis having background of fomenting terrorism not only in India but all around world, it is but required that these Pakistani to go through extra screening to avoid any surprises like we did with David Headley. Better be safe than sorry.

    And the bogey that Prof. Wintemute raise about this Visa policy being racist is nothing but bullshit. Britain itself now making Pakistanis wait for more than 3 months to issue visas while Indian get them in less than a week. Are we to assume that Britain is Racist as well. The problem is that Prof. Wintemute is a lifafa journalist raising the bogey of Pakistanis are victims of Indian Visa policy when there is none. Guardian newspaper should be more objective, balanced and neutral in its analysis concerning Indian topics instead of peddling Pakistani propaganda. If one goes through comments on guardian one can gauge the pulse of common Britisher which in this case supports Indian stand. May be Guardian should take the cue and write more balanced article so as to not alienate its readers.

    Here I post some of the popular comments on this article

     
  16. Terminator

    Terminator Regular Member

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    I have been following guardian for quite some time as matter of fact even other english periodicals.India bashing seems to be their favourite past time.I believe the articles are written by paki journalists mostly who what to put mud on Indias growth and by certain british journalists who still live in the pre industrial age thinking britain is the centre of all things.Both of them find it hard to digest both these countries are of no way comparable to India.

    The cartoon showing India to the snake and Cameron as charmer is what they think of us
    [​IMG]

    but this is much what is mostly what is happening in UK
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Mustang

    Mustang Regular Member

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    This article or Robert Winterm...whatever.... should be ignored. This whole thing doesn't deserve much attention
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Of course, one can ignore such an article.

    If one does so, then it will be taken as the truth.

    It should be rebutted by the Indian govt with irrefutable facts and the international community should be informed that we are more liberal than them.
     
  19. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Guys......first off let make a simple point. Pakistanis applying for visas are being looked at very closely by every country in the world including Muslim countries. This is because no country has had so many citizens involved in international terror activities like Pakistan. So innocent pakistanis will pay the price for that.

    As for British Pak......screw them....they are more suspect than the Pakistani Pak. No country wants to touch them.
     
  20. Mustang

    Mustang Regular Member

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    True..but atleast after a while even indian govt rebuttal must end. With time everyone forgets.

    If I recall an incident of PV Narasimha Rao, while he was addressing the UN General Assembly, everyone expected that he is going to give a "fitting" reply to pakistanis for accusing India of many things before PVNR spoke in the same assembly. But Narasimha Rao didnt utter anything about pakistan in his speech, let alone using the word "Pakistan". Pakistani officials must have been more hurt for being ignored, as they say "Silence speaks louder than Words"
     
  21. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    Why did UK kept zakir naik out of UK then ? Was it not for their own security reason.
     

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