India's shoot-to-kill policy on the Bangladesh border

Bangalorean

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^^ I want a double-layer electrified fence to be built across the border, covering every inch. Landmines between the two fences are a good idea too. The adage of "good fences make good neighbours' has never been more apt. I believe that BD has reservations and protests against such a fence. If they make too much trouble, move the fence 50 meters within our borders, but get the damn thing done.

Why all this angst of illegal immigration, shootings, accusations, counter accusations, souring in relations, and so on? Just build a barrier and ensure that this constant cycle of accusations and counter accusations stops. One big sour point in Indo-Bangla relations will disappear. I am willing to donate one month's salary towards such a fence.
 

mayfair

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^^ I want a double-layer electrified fence to be built across the border, covering every inch. Landmines between the two fences are a good idea too. The adage of "good fences make good neighbours' has never been more apt. I believe that BD has reservations and protests against such a fence. If they make too much trouble, move the fence 50 meters within our borders, but get the damn thing done.

Why all this angst of illegal immigration, shootings, accusations, counter accusations, souring in relations, and so on? Just build a barrier and ensure that this constant cycle of accusations and counter accusations stops. One big sour point in Indo-Bangla relations will disappear. I am willing to donate one month's salary towards such a fence.
A fence is only as good as those guarding the gates. We may install double electrified fences, 30 feet deep moats with crocs, hippos, snakes whatsoever, illuminate the whole border with dazzling lights that can be seen from the space and equip the border guards with the most hi-tech equipment out there. But if those very border guards and their political masters are only too happy to turn off the lights and electrification, lay out drawbridges over the moats and leave the access doors open in lieu of money and power that fence is worth no more than the steel sold for scrap.

It is well recognised that illegal infiltration into India is facilitated by many elements in our official machinery. They are brazen and shameless about it- Remember Hiteshwar Saikia's "There are no illegal Bangladeshis in Assam".
 

JayATL

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You need to wake up and smell the coffee man :rotflmao:. This isn't a USA surrounded by a winny Canada and a pathetic Mexico to adopt your impractical and suicidal policies here. Look at our neighbourhood first and then talk.

What your USA does is calls such people as 'terrorists' and gets away with it because of its superpower status. Whereas here we have to deal with illegal fundamentalist lunatics from Bangladesh. Just come to Meghalaya, Assam, Tripura and W. Bengal and see the amount of scumbags that enter into India in disguise and are encouraged by vote hungry vile poiliticians to join in for Muslim votes.

Sitting in USA pretty on a presumed moral high-horse supposedly, you don't know jack about the problems the average day to day NE and eastern India faces because of these losers. Your silly "democrat" and "Neo con" political philosophy and "schools of thought" is not applicable to the problems here. Despite such an aggressive policy, India has more than 20 million illegal immigrants and majority of them are Bangladeshis. Google it if you don't want to believe me. You know what would happen if we adopt those bigoted "rights" groups policies? India would be chaotic hell!

Your USA is 1/3rd of our population and still cries like a baby for illegal immigration with 10 times more resources when a couple of Mexicans come in. We are already stuffed to the top with a billion people and you want more fundamentalist lunatics and beggars to come in our already poor country? Wake up from la-la land dude. This is India and that too Northeast India. Not your USA.



Are you smoking pot comparing us with Africans? You must be high on something seriously.. And you as an Amerindian should be the last to call us all this nonsense when with that Patriot Act of yours that enables the security forces to do anything with any person suspected of something under the name of 'terrorism'. YOU really think all democracies are transparent? LOL! That's a joke. Do you think what your security forces tell you in US is all they do? If so then don't bother arguing.

Your country brought down 2 countries for 2 towers and you're teaching us morals on how to tackle a fundamentalist bunch of illegal economic rogues? Seriously!? For real?! :twitch:

You want to turn your USA into a Jihadic hellhole with stupid Liberal-Apologetic and la-la land regulations go ahead--do it. We care the least what you call us (neo con freaks, extremists, under-developed savages etc). But we don't want to turn our already chaotic country into an Islamist playground that Pakistan and Afghanistan and your superheroes of West like Obama and Gordon Brown have turned their countries into (Check how local population is crying because of this on news videos).

Had your so-called "civilized" USA been in India's place today, it would have been a failed madhouse with 2 nuclear cut-throat enemies surrounding her. So don't teach us your Utopian philosophy of what is civilized after that deeds that US "democracy" does around the world for her self-interest. You will only embarrass yourself.

Using fancy words like neo con cowboys will only make your logic a joke in this part of the world. If you were a NE, you will understand what it is to be here.

About this sentence, if you want to argue, would you mind running through YouTube or you want me to do your homework here as well? :rolleyes:
Immigration policy is just that-policies to resolve immigration issues through Law and Order and not shoot everything at sight. While you pontificated about US immigration policies and your lack of knowledge on it. Nowhere does it say that they will not shoot a terrorist when identified as one. NOR does it shoot unarmed families, illegals trying to hop the border- they arrest them.

Where is this lack of comprehension coming from? You spent all this time whining about my post - when my post was taking offense to the shoot at sight policy, regardless of whom it is. Yes, that's even more ghetto than Africa and North Korea. Nowhere in my post did I say_ you allow these people to immigrate to India carte blanche. Arrest them , catch them, jail them , deport them- there are several law enforcement policies you can use.

Its not a zero sum game here where border security means shoot everything that moves.

Again- Nowhere in the US immigration policy or in my post or in any civilized countries policy does it say not to shoot a terrorist, if he/she is identified as one and and poses a risk. Btw , patriot act is not a shoot at sight policy. India has its version of the patriot act and I don't recall it being a shoot anything that freaking moves policy! again, where is the lack of comprehension coming from? I'll take that apology now for the lack of comprehending my post and stance.

One of the most publicised cases took place in January, when a 15- year-old girl was allegedly shot and killed after she got entangled in the barbed-wire fence.
 
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Bangalorean

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A fence is only as good as those guarding the gates. We may install double electrified fences, 30 feet deep moats with crocs, hippos, snakes whatsoever, illuminate the whole border with dazzling lights that can be seen from the space and equip the border guards with the most hi-tech equipment out there. But if those very border guards and their political masters are only too happy to turn off the lights and electrification, lay out drawbridges over the moats and leave the access doors open in lieu of money and power that fence is worth no more than the steel sold for scrap.

It is well recognised that illegal infiltration into India is facilitated by many elements in our official machinery. They are brazen and shameless about it- Remember Hiteshwar Saikia's "There are no illegal Bangladeshis in Assam".
Well, you are right. But it is not something that has no solution - can we ever imagine such things happening on the Pak border, for instance? People being 'let in and let out'? Once such a fence is built, the attitude and the feeling will change to a great extent. The existence of the fence itself will help in changing the way this whole thing is viewed.Along with the fence building, the number of legal border crossings should be minimized.
 

JayATL

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there has not been a single fence built by anyone that worked , unless you have a east German policy. which is basically what you have on the bangla border per this article sans the fence.

do you want to be associated with that kind?
 

Bangalorean

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there has not been a single fence built by anyone that worked , unless you have a east German policy. which is basically what you have on the bangla border per this article sans the fence.

do you want to be associated with that kind?
It's not about my 'wanting to be associated with that kind' or not. We have an issue here, which is causing serious problems between two countries and a solution needs to be found. A fence will certainly work if it has to - it is our job to make it work. What do you suggest otherwise? What is the solution you have in mind for this recurring problem between the nations?
 

JayATL

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It's not about my 'wanting to be associated with that kind' or not. We have an issue here, which is causing serious problems between two countries and a solution needs to be found. A fence will certainly work if it has to - it is our job to make it work. What do you suggest otherwise? What is the solution you have in mind for this recurring problem between the nations?
Let me start with this example: The US militray in Afghanistan and Iraq said " a semblance of democracy in those countries can't be achieved by the military only. Rather it had to be a strong diplomatic and economic effort too"

Similarly, no immigration issue is going to be successful with a security only policy or fence or wall. first of all you can't fence and wall ( spend billions) on that border because of its length and geographical terrain. You must help Bangladesh achieve ist own success in every form. Canadians don't enter US illegally, Mexicans and their economy is being helped by the US...

People will always move where there is more security and better prospect. we do it in our cities all over the world. So the solution has to be two pronged and not just security forces. It cost India billions or will cost it in the coming years on illegal immigration, so why not invest in Bangladesh instead? Lastly, you must have policies that corporations or people who hire illegals are fined drastically or even face jail time . What is happening is that corporation are hiringe illegals because they come much cheaper and can be taken advantage of. what is process of getting a job in India? do they ask for any citizenship ID's or work permits?
 
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Bangalorean

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Let me start with this example: The US militray in Afghanistan and Iraq said " a semblance of democracy in those countries can't be achieved by the military only. Rather it had to be a strong diplomatic and economic effort too"

Similarly, no immigration issue is going to be successful with a security only policy or fence or wall. first of all you can't fence and wall ( spend billions) on that border because of its length and geographical terrain. You must help Bangladesh achieve ist own success in every form. Canadians don't enter US illegally, Mexicans and their economy is being helped by the US...

People will always move where there is more security and better prospect. we do it in our cities all over the world. So the solution has to be two pronged and not just security forces.
Oh, come on. Let us get off this thinking that we can 'help' others "achieve success in every form". We are still such a poor country, have so many problems of our own, from social problems to infrastructural issues. There is so much work to be done at home, resources are so limited, time is so short. How on earth can we "help" others when we are in such poor shape?

When we reach the level of Japan or Norway, we can talk about "helping others achieve success in every form". Till then, let us worry about ourselves and not get into this irritating patronizing Western habit and their way of speaking.
 

JayATL

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Oh, come on. Let us get off this thinking that we can 'help' others "achieve success in every form". We are still such a poor country, have so many problems of our own, from social problems to infrastructural issues. There is so much work to be done at home, resources are so limited, time is so short. How on earth can we "help" others when we are in such poor shape?

When we reach the level of Japan or Norway, we can talk about "helping others achieve success in every form". Till then, let us worry about ourselves and not get into this irritating patronizing Western habit and their way of speaking.

helping them does not mean giving free aid. But let me ask you, what is the alternative? spend billions on illegal immigration? it's only getting worse and shooting people apparently has not worked because as you said and others have - you still have millions of the illegal immigrants in the country and keeps growing. Look- you can't be short sighted...

"patronizing Western habit and their way of speaking. " -

Not sure what you meant by that- I speak like 'them' because I am one of them too :) But , let me ask you- are you not using the western economic models? they too have immigration issues and that's how they are attacking it/ resolving it. do you want to take a another 50 years before you follow this model too?
 

Bangalorean

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what is process of getting a job in India? do they ask for any citizenship ID's or work permits?
For a normal corporate job such as the tech industry, you need to provide a bunch of documents - college mark sheets, PAN card, past experience letters, and so on. But that does not count here. Because these poor villagers don't get jobs in the high tech sector - they are employed in the construction industry as manual labourers. And there is absolutely no 'documentation check' in the unorganized sector there.
 

Bangalorean

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helping them does not mean giving free aid. But let me ask you, what is the alternative? spend billions on illegal immigration? it's only getting worse and shooting people apparently has not worked because as you said and others have - you still have millions of the illegal immigrants in the country and keeps growing. Look- you can't be short sighted...

"patronizing Western habit and their way of speaking. " -

Not sure what you meant by that- I speak like 'them' because I am one of them too :) But , let me ask you- are you not using the western economic models? they too have immigration issues and that's how they are attacking it/ resolving it. do you want to take a another 50 years before you follow this model too?
Didn't mean to offend. What I was referring to was the propensity of many people in the West to adopt a patronizing attitude towards "third world inferior nations". I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush, but this thinking is more prevalent than one would expect. Speaking about 'helping BD achieve success' when we ourselves have a lot to do at home, will be thought of as a patronizing 'fatherly' attitude. Had an Indian member made this suggestion, I guarantee you that any Bangladeshi viewing this page would have complained of a "high handed attitude" and "Indian dadagiri" (bullying). I guarantee you that.
 
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