India's second-strike capabilities

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by Daredevil, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    The beginning of the New Year is crucial for some key defence projects which promise to boost the country's second-strike capability significantly.

    Lined up in the coming weeks are the final trial of underwater missile K-15, meant for nuclear submarine Arihant , maiden test of subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay and first flight of Limited Series Production (LSP-8) of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

    Sources said the final test of K-15 is expected to take place in January. Once the trials are over, the missile would be integrated with Arihant, the nuclear-powered submarine being developed at home.

    [​IMG]

    Defence scientists said the missile has performed well and its underwater launch capability is shaping up well. The last trial of the missile was conducted from a pontoon in the Bay of Bengal in December last year.

    Sources said one more test is required for the final acceptance of the system. Its development is crucial for the success of the Arihant programme, which is expected to go for sea trials soon. The harbour trials of the submarine have been completed.

    Navy Chief Admiral D.K. Joshi had said last month that the nation can expect some good news in the Arihant development process. The K-15 missile will be followed by K-4, which will have a longer range of around 3000 km.

    Another missile that is lined up for test is the sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay. Sources said the first trial of the missile is expected to be held this month.

    The missile has a range of 750 km and can be launched from land, sea and air. Its launch has already been delayed by three months as it was expected to take place in October 2012. The defence scientists are also hoping to fly Tejas LSP-8 this month. The Light Combat Aircraft would finally be handed over to the Indian Air force for trials.

    Sources said the LSP-8 is under production and preparations are in full swing for its first flight, which is already delayed by at least a year.

    The IAF is expected to fly Tejas during the Iron Fist exercise in February. Iron Fist will be first day and night exercise in which live firing will be practiced.

    This is the first time that Tejas will form a part of an extensive IAF drill in the Rajasthan desert. The IAF is looking to raise two squadrons of Tejas to begin with. It is hoping that the aircraft will get the second Initial Operational Clearance sometime this year, said sources.

    Another crucial system, the Astra Beyond Visual Range Airto-Air missile, was successfully tested in December under simulated environment. The missile would soon be fired from IAF's Su-30 MKI combat jet.


    Read more at: Set to boost India's second-strike capability, new defence projects set for a giant leap this year : North, News - India Today
     
    A chauhan, sayareakd and W.G.Ewald like this.
  2.  
  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    I would not include LCA Tejas as part of our second-strike capability. K-15, Nirbhay, K-4, Arihant are all part of second-strike though.
     
  4. WMD

    WMD Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    City of Temples
    i thought nirbhay range is 1200km not 750km.
    [​IMG]
    The topmost schematic shows the 1,200km-range subsonic Nirbhay nuclear-armed cruise missile, which will be available in both air-launched and submarine-launched versions. The ALCM version (minus the solid-rocket booster) will be qualified for use by 20 specially customised Su-30MKIs, while the SLCM variant (incorporating the solid-rocket booster) will go on board the S-2, S-3 and S-4 SSBNs. The air-launched and nuclear-armed Nirbhay will have an estimated length of 6 metres, diameter of 0.55 metres, wingspan of 2.7 metres, launch mass of 1,200kg, cruise speed of Mach 0.7, and a 250kg warhead-section. Its cruising altitude over water will be 10 metres (33 feet), while its cruising altitude over land will be 30 metres (98 feet). The MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) Bengaluru-based Engine Test Bed Research & Development Centre (ETBRDC) has developed a turbofan (see below) for powering all members of the Nirbhay cruise missile family.

    A spinoff from this programme is the development of a smaller, conventional warhead-armed air-launched subsonic variant of Nirbhay (see illustrations above) with a range of 750km, which will be qualified for launch from combat aircraft like the DARIN 3-standard Jaguar IS as well as Rafale M-MRCA. Presently, there are no plans for developing warship-launched/submarine-launched/surface-launched versions of this missile, which will have an estimated length of 6.2 metres, diameter of 0.6 metres, launch mass of 1,350kg, a 400kg HE blast-fragmentation warhead, cruising altitude of 20 metres over land, cruise speed of 240 metres/second, target aspect angle of +/-180 degrees, and a launch altitude varying between 500 metres and 11,000 metres. The hybrid inertial navigation system will ensure autonomous navigation via at least 15 waypoints, while for terminal guidance, use will be made of a noise-immune guidance system that will employ an X-band monopulse SAR radar similar to the one now being developed for the Prahaar NLOS-BSM. The conventionally-armed ALCM variant of Nirbhay will be procured by both the Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy.
    (fromTRISHULblog by Prasun K. Sengupta )
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  5. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    Does India have no first use doctrine?
     
  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    Yes. A very carefully worded language used to describe it.

    4.3 In adherence to a policy of no first use, India will not initiate a nuclear strike.


    ‘Initiation’ covers the process leading up to the actual use of a nuclear weapon by an adversary. This would include mating component systems and deploying warheads with the intent of using them if required. This will enable the Prime Minister to gain the flexibility to decide upon an appropriate response.This formulation also avoids the constraints placed on the NFU policy in regard to using the nuclear deterrent against WMDs adopted in the 2003 CCS decision.

    It appears your Web browser is not configured to display PDF files. No worries, just click here to download the PDF file.

     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  7. The Fox

    The Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    267
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Yes india does have No first Strike policy against a Nuclear Armed Aggressor and no use of Nuclear weapon on a Non Nuclear Armed country
    example : if fighting Pakistan unless they launch Nukes or get ready to launch the Nukes India will Not launch
    if fighting against Srilanka at any cost india will not Nuke them rest assured their land will not be turned into nuclear Ash .....

    Edited : oooh yes i forgot to mention this if Srilanka Supported by or Allied with a Nuclear Armed state which provides cover to it then lets prepare for a Nuclear winter in the South..................
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  8. WMD

    WMD Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    City of Temples
    Indian National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon signaled a significant shift from "No first use" to "no first use against non-nuclear weapon states" in a speech on the occasion of Golden Jubilee celebrations of National Defence College in New Delhi on October 21, 2010, a doctrine Menon said reflected India's "strategic culture, with its emphasis on minimal deterrence."-excerpt from wiki
     
  9. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    This could be an error on Wiki.

    I have posted a while ago on this issue.

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-failed-unreliable-missiles-5.html#post573723

    Here is the original nuclear doctrine of India (its just 1 page) released in 2003. Focus on highlighted part.



    And to qualify above nuclear doctrine with another recent official statement, I highlight this official statement by Indian external affairs minister made in 2011

     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    All India cruise and Ballistic missiles are nuclear capable, the best second strike
    options are Agni and shaurya and if it is an end of the world scenario you can even
    use P8I or C-17 in a limited bomber role.
     
    sayareakd and jalsa like this.
  11. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Location:
    BHUBANESHWAR
    new defence projects set for a giant leap this year

    [​IMG]

    The beginning of the New Year is crucial for some key defence projects which promise to boost the country’s second-strike capability significantly.

    Lined up in the coming weeks are the final trial of underwater missile K-15, meant for nuclear submarine Arihant , maiden test of subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay and first flight of Limited Series Production (LSP-8) of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

    Sources said the final test of K-15 is expected to take place in January. Once the trials are over, the missile would be integrated with Arihant, the nuclear-powered submarine being developed at home.

    [​IMG]

    Defence scientists said the missile has performed well and its underwater launch capability is shaping up well. The last trial of the missile was conducted from a pontoon in the Bay of Bengal in December last year.

    Sources said one more test is required for the final acceptance of the system. Its development is crucial for the success of the Arihant programme, which is expected to go for sea trials soon. The harbour trials of the submarine have been completed.

    Navy Chief Admiral D.K. Joshi had said last month that the nation can expect some good news in the Arihant development process. The K-15 missile will be followed by K-4, which will have a longer range of around 3000 km.

    Another missile that is lined up for test is the sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay. Sources said the first trial of the missile is expected to be held this month.

    The missile has a range of 750 km and can be launched from land, sea and air. Its launch has already been delayed by three months as it was expected to take place in October 2012. The defence scientists are also hoping to fly Tejas LSP-8 this month. The Light Combat Aircraft would finally be handed over to the Indian Air force for trials.

    Sources said the LSP-8 is under production and preparations are in full swing for its first flight, which is already delayed by at least a year.

    The IAF is expected to fly Tejas during the Iron Fist exercise in February. Iron Fist will be first day and night exercise in which live firing will be practiced.

    This is the first time that Tejas will form a part of an extensive IAF drill in the Rajasthan desert. The IAF is looking to raise two squadrons of Tejas to begin with. It is hoping that the aircraft will get the second Initial Operational Clearance sometime this year, said sources.

    Another crucial system, the Astra Beyond Visual Range Airto-Air missile, was successfully tested in December under simulated environment. The missile would soon be fired from IAF’s Su-30 MKI combat jet.
    Set to boost India’s second-strike capability, new defence projects set for a giant leap this year | idrw.org
     
    SPIEZ likes this.
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Re: new defence projects set for a giant leap this year

    This is great news given that the Defence Budget has been drastically cut.
     
  13. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    long time ago they used to say that even akash is nuclear capable :rofl:
     
  14. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,928
    Likes Received:
    4,563
    Location:
    Raipur
    Seeing our nuclear policy, Nasr will definitely be answered by a massive retaliation.
     
    sayareakd likes this.
  15. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    its rocket.................. they are just playing game with us, are you aware what it takes to make nukes so small as to fit into rocket. It will bankrupt Pak which is already on oxygen when it comes to finances.
     
    A chauhan likes this.
  16. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Location:
    The Republic of India
    We need something like the Russian Dead Hand/Perimeter system.
    Very briefly, it is a system, which once activated looks for signs of massive nuclear attack on capital city. If all the signs for such an attack exists, and no human intervention has taken place yet, the system sends rockets up into the air. These rockets pass over missile fields and transmit launch commands into those. Thus ensuring a sure shot second strike even in the event of complete nuclear annihilation of the country's leadership.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
    sayareakd likes this.
  17. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,629
    Likes Received:
    11,705
    we can have simple system where the operator of all the nukes will press the button and nukes will not work for next 24 hours, all the nukes will be pre programmed to the targeted launch site in case button is not pressed for 24 hours. Only problem is if the operator forget to press the button for some reason, we will have nukes running down to Pakistan and China.
     
  18. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,248
    Likes Received:
    1,863
    on a side note if any of the induction of rafale or other critical components is delayed - india should go for a megaton test - having 2Meg nukes on standby is a good deterrent
     
  19. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    375
    there is no use of a 1MT nuke. 200-300 KT will suffice and a number of 100 KT ones for MIRV. A few 20 KT and sub K-T for cruise missile and the deterrent will be complete.
     
  20. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    They said K-15 was launched from a pontoon. I don't really see the point of that when they need to be performing pop-up tests.
     
  21. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Location:
    The Republic of India
    Not a bad idea, but a tad too simplistic, Sir. Check out about the Perimeter system. The Soviets thought about every possible scenario it seems.
    Inside the Apocalyptic Soviet Doomsday Machine
     
    Patriot, sayareakd and A chauhan like this.

Share This Page