India’s internet user base to hit 402 million, second-highest in the world: IAMAI

[Mad Indian]

Or, otherwise govt. could have auctioned it based on price offered to consumers. Instead of generating super high revenues for itself, it could have sold it using reverse auction for lowest price bids i.e. the firms which will provide services at lowest 3G costs. It would have helped in two ways:

1) Direct benefit to consumers and switch to high 3G usage

2) Increases cash-holdings with the firms for infrastructure development. Most of these firms had to take huge loans and reduced their cash holdings to pay to the govt. Now imagine how much these firms could have invested if govt. did not take away their money in one big blow.

Yeah, that sounds better.... I never thought about it.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Of course, then you have to include the cost of running telecom division and its bureaucracy on its costs.


The problem I see here is that, the low base price does not really gaurentee a lower final bid.


For example, if I auction 1gm of pure gold coin today, at starting price of 1 rupees vs auction of 1 gm of gold with a starting price of 100 ruppees, would there be any significant difference in the final bid offer I get on both?

How will the spectrum auction be any different? Am I missing something here?


Regarding corruption, first come first serve principle should be applied here IMO, only transparently.

The floor price signals the profitability calculated by govt. Now, if govt. gives high floor price, telecom firms think there is too much money out there to be made, which increases their bid. Low floor price works in other direction.

I am not saying that bids would have completely come down with that but signal from the govt. is taken into account. Also, read about winner's curse to help you understand it better.

Btw, I gave another way to solve the bidding problem in my post above, which would have led to direct benefit to consumers.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Yeah, that sounds better.... I never thought about it.

I think I might have read about it somewhere. But it was a passing mention.

I think we should push for reverse auction for the spectrum bids next time. I hear the telecom firms are now cash constrained due to high auction prices and it is hurting the infrastructure roll-out.

 

[Mad Indian]

The floor price signals the profitability calculated by govt. Now, if govt. gives high floor price, telecom firms think there is too much money out there to be made, which increases their bid. Low floor price works in other direction.

I understood the point the first time you made, but I dint think it would have that high an impact as I thought Indian telecom cos would be smarter at reading the market and potential

 

[Mad Indian]

I think I might have read about it somewhere. But it was a passing mention.

I think we should push for reverse auction for the spectrum bids next time. I hear the telecom firms are now cash constrained due to high auction prices and it is hurting the infrastructure roll-out.

And when I visit consumer forums bitching about 3G prices, no one realises this core problem- .ie the price of acquisition of the spectrum being high as the problem and instead , almost everyone there blames the corporate greed. Morons. I doubt any telecom company has actually recovered its investment, let alone make any profit till now.


They were bitching about how privatisations has caused the internet to suck and what not. Typical resident commie level reasoning.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

And when I visit consumer forums bitching about 3G prices, no one realises this core problem- .ie the price of acquisition of the spectrum being high as the problem and instead , almost everyone there blames the corporate greed. Morons. I doubt any telecom company has actually recovered its investment, let alone make any profit till now.


They were bitching about how privatisations has caused the internet to suck and what not. Typical resident commie level reasoning.

Didn't you see the net-neutrality debate?

They get sold out too soon on a new fad without realizing the implications. They were spewing venom against fb which tried to offer cheap but limited services.

 

[Mad Indian]

Didn't you see the net-neutrality debate?

They get sold out too soon on a new fad without realizing the implications. They were spewing venom against fb which tried to offer cheap but limited services.

Yes, net neutrality is another crap which these idiots were buying whole sale from west without actually knowing what the fuck it is about.

And of course, unlike the US, where Republicans stood up for the firms and progress, BJP just said they are for net neutrality. And the chaddis here want us to believe that RW is in safe hands

 

[Chinmoy]

Are you saying that we don't have decent 3G connectivity and that is why it is expensive??

Yes and No........ Now cellular plans and rates are bit different from other commodities. The more robust connectivity and wide spread you could have it, the more consumer you would get for it and the more and more cheap it would be. Lets take the case of early cellular tech in India or rather lets say in my part of country (NE). We had only Reliance over here at that time (in early 2000). We had to pay even for the incoming calls which I think is same to all at first. We didn't have a decent network too. It did worked only at few selected towns. Then they began expanding their network and later BSNL too joined them in foray. By this time cell phone had entered in almost every other state in India. But we had to yet see its extensive use at this part and whoever were using it were considered to be elite. But with expansion of the cellular network and increase in subscriber, the rates too started to come down slowly and became more and more affordable. After this the competition did increased and eventually it became affordable to all. Its the case for 2G.

Then we had 3G. But the problem with 3G is that its too available only at selected places and there too its too patchy for connectivity. Result is that 90 out of 100 people you know is using 2G instead. 3G is just limited to the major towns. Now a telecom company does make a huge investment in setting up a single BTS and they aim to earn around 200000 per day from it. But with such patchy connection and low consumer base, they have to keep the price high to sustain themselves. And eventually a lot of the infra's are getting dismantled. Now both this are interrelated. To get consumer you have to notch up your service and to finance it you need consumers to pay. But if you start making long term investment in infra then you could be sure of attracting more and more consumer. And with it there would be rise in competition and eventually its price too would come down.

Let me give you another personal example. I had acquired fixed ADSL connectivity from BSNL in 2006 and had to pay 750 per month for a plan with 256kbps and unlimited download. Then in 2010 it got upgraded to 512kbps with the same price tag. Then again in 2012 they started offering 2Mbps bandwidth up to 8GB and after that 512Kbps all again with same price tag. And if I to believe BSNL bandwidth is again going to increase upto 2Mbps minimum at the same price in 2017. But lets not raise our hope too much untill its there. What have changed for BSNL in all these years? There consumers increased and in return there output too increased manyfold.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Yes and No........ Now cellular plans and rates are bit different from other commodities. The more robust connectivity and wide spread you could have it, the more consumer you would get for it and the more and more cheap it would be. Lets take the case of early cellular tech in India or rather lets say in my part of country (NE). We had only Reliance over here at that time (in early 2000). We had to pay even for the incoming calls which I think is same to all at first. We didn't have a decent network too. It did worked only at few selected towns. Then they began expanding their network and later BSNL too joined them in foray. By this time cell phone had entered in almost every other state in India. But we had to yet see its extensive use at this part and whoever were using it were considered to be elite. But with expansion of the cellular network and increase in subscriber, the rates too started to come down slowly and became more and more affordable. After this the competition did increased and eventually it became affordable to all. Its the case for 2G.

Then we had 3G. But the problem with 3G is that its too available only at selected places and there too its too patchy for connectivity. Result is that 90 out of 100 people you know is using 2G instead. 3G is just limited to the major towns. Now a telecom company does make a huge investment in setting up a single BTS and they aim to earn around 200000 per day from it. But with such patchy connection and low consumer base, they have to keep the price high to sustain themselves. And eventually a lot of the infra's are getting dismantled. Now both this are interrelated. To get consumer you have to notch up your service and to finance it you need consumers to pay. But if you start making long term investment in infra then you could be sure of attracting more and more consumer. And with it there would be rise in competition and eventually its price too would come down.

Let me give you another personal example. I had acquired fixed ADSL connectivity from BSNL in 2006 and had to pay 750 per month for a plan with 256kbps and unlimited download. Then in 2010 it got upgraded to 512kbps with the same price tag. Then again in 2012 they started offering 2Mbps bandwidth up to 8GB and after that 512Kbps all again with same price tag. And if I to believe BSNL bandwidth is again going to increase upto 2Mbps minimum at the same price in 2017. But lets not raise our hope too much untill its there. What have changed for BSNL in all these years? There consumers increased and in return there output too increased manyfold.

If India with its huge population base cannot provide cheap 3g, no one else in the world can do it. The causality should run the other way and not how you wrote it. More customers should lead to more investment and better connectivity. And not the other way around, that since connectivity is bad people are not buying it. I see even rickshaw pullers in Delhi having cheap Chinese smart-phones these days. It is not difficult to imagine that they would have switched to 3g if it were cheap. And telecom firms would have offered it cheap to entice new customers if they could.

But read my post above to understand why telecom firms have not ramped up infrastructure because govt. screwed them up by making them pay huge money upfront for 3g. This depleted their cash holdings and loan taking potential to make new investments. No surprise that they are not improving the services even after charging super high price.

 

[Chinmoy]

If India with its huge population base cannot provide cheap 3g, no one else in the world can do it. The causality should run the other way and not how you wrote it. More customers should lead to more investment and better connectivity. And not the other way around, that since connectivity is bad people are not buying it. I see even rickshaw pullers in Delhi having cheap Chinese smart-phones these days. It is not difficult to imagine that they would have switched to 3g if it were cheap. And telecom firms would have offered it cheap to entice new customers if they could.

But read my post above to understand why telecom firms have not ramped up infrastructure because govt. screwed them up by making them pay huge money upfront for 3g. This depleted their cash holdings and loan taking potential to make new investments. No surprise that they are not improving the services even after charging super high price.

Its not just Govt which screwed them up in first place. They themselves got screwed up by indulging in some unorthodox back door business. During the onslaught of 3G many operators started there service here without license and offered very cheap rates (I am talking about NE). Prominent among them were TATA and Idea. Others include MTS, Uninor, S-tel and such. But once these telecom scam came into light, all got rebuked and one of the major player, Vodafone got fined, as it did allowed these operators to use its bandwidth using back door policy. Now we have the situation that, we don't have the service of TATA in the whole region. In the first place itself, if they would have done it in a fair manner, the story might have been different and the user base too have been a lot more and cheaper due to steep competition.

Now lets talk on technical term. Auction or no auction, 3G tech in itself is costly then 2G. We all know that 2G does work in 200KHz whereas 3G does work in 1.2MHz it means, 2G having a low frequency does cover a large area and does have a good penetration compared to 3G. Now when you compare voice call on 2G and 3G, there is no difference. The difference is only there in data transfer. Now me myself being a traveling professional, do use three SIMs. One for voice calls, and other two, one 3G and another 2G, for accessing net. And the thing is, I do use 2G SIM more often then 3G. In case of using 3G SIM too, it works fine outdoor, but once I check into hotel room or in any closed space, I have to select 2G to work on. To add on this dismay, there has been a regulation passed out that they have to cut down on there radiation level due to growing health hazard. The result being is again the patchy voice calls. Now each and every operator is asking govt to allow them to increase the number of towers to counter this call drop prob.

Now speaking of consumer, you have to take into account the usage type too. You cant expect a rickshaw or handcart puller to keep on checking his Facebook or Instagram account. Majority of mobile net user as of today are college or school students followed by other professionals. But in case of professionals, they do still rely mostly on fixed line net then mobile, which they use as secondary means. There too the websites they do visit are all social media sites and hardly 1 out of 1000 does use a video call using 3G. The large portion of mobile user still uses it only for voice calling purpose.

But again when you speak about operators having to pay hefty sum in auction, its a point well taken and agreed upon. But along with it, if there has been some decent investment in infra, the picture might have been different. When I quoted Reliance in my earlier post, they invested so heavily here initially, when there were no other operators, that they already harvested there profit within a period of 2 years and now a days giving away every thing for free.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

net neutrality achieved. Poor people can now screw themselves without internet.

P.S. @SREEKAR - i was able to upload file.

 

[asingh10]

It was a bunch of urban AAPtards/k00l d00d crowd who supported this neutrality nonsense because it was fashionable to do so. Any govt that grovels and submits to useless activism from english speaking urban voters does not deserve the mandate that it got from the rural India.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

It was a bunch of urban AAPtards/k00l d00d crowd who supported this neutrality nonsense because it was fashionable to do so. Any govt that grovels to useless activism from english speaking urban voters does not deserve the mandate that it got from the rural India.

Don't worry. It is fast losing it. But I wonder, how much does GoI interfere in TRAI decisions. Indians are socialist by instinct. Sadly, our leaders do not take time to get educated either.

 

[Mad Indian]

So may I please have a response from resident RSS clowns on this issue please? Is this what the donkey was elected for? For pleasing aaptards and morons who don't want them in power in the first place? The chutiyas in govt don't even have to do anything and let the aaptards whine all they want while the free basics penetrated the rural market which the morons in govt could have marketed as their success during the polls. It's really that fucking simple.


@VIP and @maomao pls come and defend the RSS clowns in power . I want to hear your bearls of wisdom why this moronic act by this govt is indeed good for us. Pls do

 

[asingh10]

Don't worry. It is fast losing it. But I wonder, how much does GoI interfere in TRAI decisions. Indians are socialist by instinct. Sadly, our leaders do not take time to get educated either.

BTW I've the same opinion on repeal of 377 and women in army/other feminist issues that are being raked up right now. I'm pretty sure BJP is only doing it to cater some urban voters as opposed to any real sincerity. If they really were sincere, there are many other issues that would be higher on their priority list. The move to push women in army is just disastrous, I know this from people with 1st hand experience in US army & other men in NATO armies that allow females also know it.

This is like a rat race for liberal moral high ground that BJP will never win because it'll be one issue after the other. Whatever is the latest fad in the west. And true to their mercantile nature, BJP will try to 'adapt', like they always have.

 

[Mad Indian]

Indians are not socialistic by nature. They are just retarded by nature. Just look at how the RSS clowns are going to defend this issue here and how many others kiss their ass in this thread. Morons. I am really regretting staying back in India now.

 

[Mad Indian]

@asingh10 isn't it true that BJP was willing to give up on Ram temple too, before it was convinced on the spot by the crowd support for Ram temple in the rally where they were supposed to break it to the masses? . They can do even whoring of their women to stay in power. Honour, ideology, actual good for the nation, staying true to the electoral promises >>>>> staying in power for maximum bania value. But hey, at least they are true to their Hindu baniagiri and hence are ideologically Hindu. May be that's what RSS means by cultural nationalism and swadesi too, being the best Hindu bania on the political scene. I am sure @VIP agrees too.

 

[Mad Indian]

Free internet basics would have meant that companies would be forced to reduce the price of their internet service ices or risk going out of business since most of the internet users use it for Facebook only. And so here we have a bunch of morons deciding that such lower of prices for consumers would be bad for consumers because their western masters , who they like to ape, said so and now want their govt to do away with such free shit(why should poor get free internet when these entitled whiny scum have to pay for it?). And the RSS/BJP morons in power, realising that appeasing the moronic retards who would never vote for their conservative ass anyway becauze being liberal is so cool and all, is more important than letting poor people getting free internet albiet limited, decided to give in to the retards asking for net neutrality and so banned the free basics. Now resident sanghi @VIP will come and claim why this is technological marvel and innovation because his fellow sanghi clowns at the top brought this law. In fact, this is one step forward towards.


Isn't that the proper summation of this net neutrality bs so far?

 

[Screambowl]

Free internet basics would have meant that companies would be forced to reduce the price of their internet service ices or risk going out of business since most of the internet users use it for Facebook only. And so here we have a bunch of morons deciding that such lower of prices for consumers would be bad for consumers because their western masters , who they like to ape, said so and now want their govt to do away with such free shit(why should poor get free internet when these entitled whiny scum have to pay for it?). And the RSS/BJP morons in power, realising that appeasing the moronic retards who would never vote for their conservative ass anyway becauze being liberal is so cool and all, is more important than letting poor people getting free internet albiet limited, decided to give in to the retards asking for net neutrality and so banned the free basics. Now resident sanghi @VIP will come and claim why this is technological marvel and innovation because his fellow sanghi clowns at the top brought this law. In fact, this is one step forward towards.


Isn't that the proper summation of this net neutrality bs so far?

because India being the super powa in IT cannot create substitutes to search engines like google guru , and email platforms like gmail, hotmail, web, etc in India. Hence you have to suffer bro

Either try to develop India or stay out and don't comment on problems in India if you are not working for India indirectly ( not talking about you but this should be the Mantra of youth) . Compromise has to be done., Chalta hai bhai , this is our attitude. Suffer!!

 

[asingh10]

@asingh10 isn't it true that BJP was willing to give up on Ram temple too, before it was convinced on the spot by the crowd support for Ram temple in the rally where they were supposed to break it to the masses? . They can do even whoring of their women to stay in power. Honour, ideology, actual good for the nation, staying true to the electoral promises >>>>> staying in power for maximum bania value. But hey, at least they are true to their Hindu baniagiri and hence are ideologically Hindu. May be that's what RSS means by cultural nationalism and swadesi too, being the best Hindu bania on the political scene. I am sure @VIP agrees too.

Hardcore BJP fans will give the same cliched excuses every time BJP screws up.

"Atleast we are better than Congress"

"Perhaps this country doesn't deserve Modi, we are worthy of UPA only" etc.

 

[Screambowl]

Hardcore BJP fans will give the same cliched excuses every time BJP screws up.

"Atleast we are better than Congress"

"Perhaps this country doesn't deserve Modi, we are worthy of UPA only" etc.

What do you think BJP is all RW? Even BJP has good proportion of so called 'Seculars'.