India's growing stakes in South China Sea

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
No we don't like it. You must have a nerve to claim a region that is closer to Vietnam. If anyone is trying to spark off a conflict, it is none other than PRC.
We have the nerve to claim what belongs to us, no more no less.

When you navigate a ship inside our waters, you are sparking off a conflict.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
And India, IMHO, need to call their bluff. PRC cannot afford another armed conflict, that too with India. They are counting on India withdrawing after their threats. Ain't happening.
It's not going to happen 2 more blocks have been bought for exploration for a total of 3 blocks so far

Below in blue is UN recognized Vietnamese waters Red is Chinese dreams


 

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
you have proof it's our waters??
Yes, we have. But does that matter? Are you gonna recongnize Chinese sovereignty over SCS after I show the proof?

One thing I learned from DFI is that it is always pointless to discuss the legitimacy of Chinese territorial claims, they are gonna accuse us of being aggressive anyway.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,593
It's not going to happen 2 more blocks have been bought for exploration for a total of 3 blocks so far

Below in blue is UN recognized Vietnamese waters Red is Chinese dreams


Is it not ridiculous? PRC's red boundary almost grazes the coast of Malaysia and Philippines. Whoever made this red line must have been under hallucination. Not sure if it is ridiculous or outrageous.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
Yes, we have. But does that matter? Are you gonna recongnize Chinese sovereignty over SCS after I show the proof?

One thing I learned from DFI is that it is always pointless to discuss the legitimacy of Chinese territorial claims, they are gonna accuse us of being aggressive anyway.
stop talking about getting aggressive and do something back up the talk the world is watching let's see what you got? If it's your territory come and do something?
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
Is This How Wars Start? India and China Now Feud Over the South China Sea

Last week, one of the world's most intractable disputes got even stickier. News leaked that the international-arm of India's state-owned Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) was in talks with the government of Vietnam over hydrocarbon exploration rights in the South China Sea. In most parts of the world this would seem a routine bi-lateral development between two countries driven by their dynamic economies. But the South China Sea, whose waters are claimed to varying degree by half a dozen countries and almost in full by China, is unlike any body of water in the world, and where an oil company may see opportunity, most others only see a swirling geo-political maelstrom.

China and Vietnam have competing territorial claims to the sea and the archipelagoes — uninhabited spits of land and rock, for the most part — sitting at its heart. The long-running dispute flared alarmingly over the summer following confrontations between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels. Adding India to the mix — the only country in Asia that presents something of a challenge to Chinese primacy — can only exacerbate tensions. An editorial in the Chinese state-run Global Times, often a mouthpiece for more hawkish elements among the leadership in Beijing, sternly warned India against "pursuing this course of action." The editorial went on:

India should bear in mind that its actions in the South China Sea will push China to the limit. China cherishes the Sino-Indian friendship, but this does not mean China values it above all else"¦

China has been peaceful for so long that some countries doubt whether it will stick to its stated bottom line. China should remind them of how clear this line really is.
Invoking dusty imperial records and charts, both Beijing and Hanoi insist upon the "indisputable" nature of their maritime sovereignty. Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines, Brunei, and Malaysia also have overlapping claims. But, given the presence of a potentially vast cache of hydrocarbons below its depths and its strategic value as the main thoroughfare for some of the world's most important shipping lanes, it's not surprising that the South China Sea piques the interests of other powers further afield.

Last year, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said resolving the disputes in the South China Sea and ensuring safe passage for international shipping was, for the Americans, a "leading diplomatic priority" — another way of saying that Washington reserves the right to intervene in those waters. India has stepped up its defense ties with Vietnam, winning access to naval ports while helping Hanoi ready a new fleet of submarines. Beijing has been somewhat spooked by such collaboration, not least because of Vietnam's proximity to Hainan, the island province where China's own rapidly modernizing nuclear submarine fleet is housed. According to reports that emerged only this past month, in late July, a Chinese ship attempted to intercept an Indian warship, the INS Airavat, off the Vietnamese coast. The Airavat was headed to the Vietnamese port of Haiphong on a routine mission. Earlier, a testy standoff between Chinese naval vessels and Vietnamese ships exploring for oil kicked off a summer of simmering tensions.

India and China share a long, heavily militarized (and also disputed) land border across the spine of the Himalayas. But while differences there have been more or less frozen for decades across a glacial expanse, the threat of confrontations at sea may prove far more unpredictable. Gwynne Dyer, a veteran Asia hand, writes:

You can attack a land border if you really want to, but it is a very big decision with incalculable consequences: a declaration of war, in effect. Even the most arrogant or paranoid governments will think long and hard before embarking on such an action, and generally they end up by deciding not to do it. Whereas at sea, you can easily drift into a serious military confrontation that neither side intended.
And the possible scenarios for (inadvertent) Sino-Indian naval conflict will only mushroom over time. After all, India's tentative wading into the South China Sea follows a steady drum beat of Chinese projects across the Indian Ocean rim around India — what some have dubbed the "string of pearls." According to some Indian strategists, China has set up naval facilities and listening posts from Burma to Pakistan, with a strategic, deep-sea port at Hambantota, Sri Lanka, in between.

Therefore, writes Harsh Pant, an international affairs scholar at King's College, London, India should play the same game. He writes:

India is right to forcefully reject Chinese claims of sovereignty over the entire South China Sea. It should now build credible strategic partnerships with other regional states to prevent a Chinese regional dominance that will undermine Indian and regional security interests.
On one level, such thinking makes plenty of sense: as rising powers neither India nor China should compromise their own interests to placate the oft-illusory fears of the other. But, despite the strength of the two countries' economic ties and the paeans to their friendship that frequently emanate from both capitals, few doubt that the rise of India and China will lead to friction. Neighbors in a complicated region, they are bound to bump up against each other. And when the two nuclear-armed nations that comprise nearly a third of humanity do bump, the stakes will be high — and the fallout potentially incalculable.

Is This How Wars Start? India and China Now Feud Over the South China Sea - Global Spin - TIME.com
 

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
stop talking about gettitng aggressive and do something back up the talk the world is watching let's see what you got? If it's your territory come and do something?
Read this, LF.

I said it before and I will say it now.

Unless OVL actually starts pumping out oil from those areas I will not be happy at the verbal retorts of India.

You are just talking, nothing concret has been done by India as of now. If you don't send a ship over there, there is nothing for us to cut off.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
Read this, LF.




You are just talking, nothing concret has been done by India as of now. If you don't send a ship over there, there is nothing for us to cut off.
What are ships doing there with cables pulling oil out?? More blocks are being bought I am sure they are exploring before they are buying.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
Indian oil companies will be issued with Vietnam, "the South China Sea cooperation documents on energy exploitation."




Indian oil companies will be issued with Vietnam, "the South China Sea cooperation documents on energy exploitation." - News

Indian oil companies will be issued with Vietnam, "the South China Sea cooperation documents on energy exploitation."Global Network reporter Julia Tan reported in the South China Sea, India and Vietnam plan for cooperative exploitation of energy resources in the Indian news media have recently appeared frequently on the <<Hindustan Times>> September 18 reported that the Indian state-owned oil and gas company (OVL is not China's objection to the move, may be about the oil companies and Vietnam signed a <<Memorandum of Understanding>> to discuss bilateral 'strategic partnership' issues.

Reported that the MOU is expected to be the second in October, Zhang Jin Zhou Yuenan President's visit to India will create signed state-owned Indian Oil Corporation and Vietnam Oil Company signed the MOU will have a 'strategic partnership' in nature, which also means that the future will have more energy exploration projects and this could provoke the entire South China Sea as Chinese sovereignty of China.

Reported that although China has made a serious warning, but energy security is still the India-Vietnam bilateral cooperation agenda to discuss the primary issues in India, an official said: 'Energy security is the most important Indian oil companies in the past 10 years there has been in Vietnam will sign the <<Memorandum of Understanding>> oil partnership between the two countries will step forward. 'According to reports, Indian Oil currently accounts for India's investment in Vietnam Vietnam all $ 400 million investment in half.

The report also noted that the above <<Memorandum of Understanding>> just Jin-month visit to India will be hit with many of India signed a cooperation agreement in India will also announce a number of decisions to strengthen bilateral relations, including awareness of the more credit lines, proposed building a new IT in Vietnam industrial park plans(Free Paper: Free News, China News, U.S. News, Provides newspaper for all industries).

India's intention to enter the South China Sea for oil and gas resources exploitation, the Chinese Foreign Ministry has recently said that China has always opposed to any country in the waters under the jurisdiction of Chinese oil and gas exploration and development activities, and hope that the foreign companies not involved in the South China Sea dispute.
 

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
What are ships doing there with cables pulling oil out?? More blocks are being bought I am sure they are exploring before they are buying.

Yeah, they are exploring the blocks, wait for a minute, maybe they have finished the exploration and are pumping out oil from those areas.

I must be talking to a wall.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
It is really irrelevant which country the exploration region is closer to. What matters here is China claims the exploration region whether you like it or not and we will protect what we claim.

Prepare for the cable cut-off.
Lets see, India exported $20 billion to China while China exported $41.7 billion to India last year. Who has the leverage?
 

KS

Bye bye DFI
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
8,005
Likes
5,758
India should simply:
  • Ramp up her naval presence there.
  • Start stalking PLAN warships.
  • Hire air bases and naval bases in Vietnam and Station fighters, interceptors and warships there.
  • India should also start patrolling the skies over SCS using submarine hunters and recon aircraft.
  • The message to PRC should be loud and clear: BEHAVE YOURSELF.
The resources for that will come from ..?
 
Last edited:

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
India will back down if China presses too hard. The whole game was for India is too push and probe and see how China reacts. The intended aim of this whole episode was to show the world that China is not a power for greater good of the world.

Chinese neighbours, world powers, regional powers will all be concerned with Chinese aspirations, and will try to form a loose alliance to corner Chinese hegemony and assertiveness.
 

ejazr

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,523
Likes
1,388
Is This How Wars Start? India and China Now Feud Over the South China Sea - Global Spin - TIME.com
Ishaan Tharoor
Last week, one of the world's most intractable disputes got even stickier. News leaked that the international-arm of India's state-owned Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) was in talks with the government of Vietnam over hydrocarbon exploration rights in the South China Sea. In most parts of the world this would seem a routine bi-lateral development between two countries driven by their dynamic economies. But the South China Sea, whose waters are claimed to varying degree by half a dozen countries and almost in full by China, is unlike any body of water in the world, and where an oil company may see opportunity, most others only see a swirling geo-political maelstrom.

China and Vietnam have competing territorial claims to the sea and the archipelagoes — uninhabited spits of land and rock, for the most part — sitting at its heart. The long-running dispute flared alarmingly over the summer following confrontations between Chinese and Vietnamese vessels. Adding India to the mix — the only country in Asia that presents something of a challenge to Chinese primacy — can only exacerbate tensions. An editorial in the Chinese state-run Global Times, often a mouthpiece for more hawkish elements among the leadership in Beijing, sternly warned India against "pursuing this course of action." The editorial went on:

India should bear in mind that its actions in the South China Sea will push China to the limit. China cherishes the Sino-Indian friendship, but this does not mean China values it above all else"¦

China has been peaceful for so long that some countries doubt whether it will stick to its stated bottom line. China should remind them of how clear this line really is.
Invoking dusty imperial records and charts, both Beijing and Hanoi insist upon the "indisputable" nature of their maritime sovereignty. Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines, Brunei, and Malaysia also have overlapping claims. But, given the presence of a potentially vast cache of hydrocarbons below its depths and its strategic value as the main thoroughfare for some of the world's most important shipping lanes, it's not surprising that the South China Sea piques the interests of other powers further afield.

Last year, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said resolving the disputes in the South China Sea and ensuring safe passage for international shipping was, for the Americans, a "leading diplomatic priority" — another way of saying that Washington reserves the right to intervene in those waters. India has stepped up its defense ties with Vietnam, winning access to naval ports while helping Hanoi ready a new fleet of submarines. Beijing has been somewhat spooked by such collaboration, not least because of Vietnam's proximity to Hainan, the island province where China's own rapidly modernizing nuclear submarine fleet is housed. According to reports that emerged only this past month, in late July, a Chinese ship attempted to intercept an Indian warship, the INS Airavat, off the Vietnamese coast. The Airavat was headed to the Vietnamese port of Haiphong on a routine mission. Earlier, a testy standoff between Chinese naval vessels and Vietnamese ships exploring for oil kicked off a summer of simmering tensions.

India and China share a long, heavily militarized (and also disputed) land border across the spine of the Himalayas. But while differences there have been more or less frozen for decades across a glacial expanse, the threat of confrontations at sea may prove far more unpredictable. Gwynne Dyer, a veteran Asia hand, writes:

You can attack a land border if you really want to, but it is a very big decision with incalculable consequences: a declaration of war, in effect. Even the most arrogant or paranoid governments will think long and hard before embarking on such an action, and generally they end up by deciding not to do it. Whereas at sea, you can easily drift into a serious military confrontation that neither side intended.
And the possible scenarios for (inadvertent) Sino-Indian naval conflict will only mushroom over time. After all, India's tentative wading into the South China Sea follows a steady drum beat of Chinese projects across the Indian Ocean rim around India — what some have dubbed the "string of pearls." According to some Indian strategists, China has set up naval facilities and listening posts from Burma to Pakistan, with a strategic, deep-sea port at Hambantota, Sri Lanka, in between.

Therefore, writes Harsh Pant, an international affairs scholar at King's College, London, India should play the same game. He writes:

India is right to forcefully reject Chinese claims of sovereignty over the entire South China Sea. It should now build credible strategic partnerships with other regional states to prevent a Chinese regional dominance that will undermine Indian and regional security interests.
On one level, such thinking makes plenty of sense: as rising powers neither India nor China should compromise their own interests to placate the oft-illusory fears of the other. But, despite the strength of the two countries' economic ties and the paeans to their friendship that frequently emanate from both capitals, few doubt that the rise of India and China will lead to friction. Neighbors in a complicated region, they are bound to bump up against each other. And when the two nuclear-armed nations that comprise nearly a third of humanity do bump, the stakes will be high — and the fallout potentially incalculable.
 

ejazr

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,523
Likes
1,388
India will back down if China presses too hard. The whole game was for India is too push and probe and see how China reacts. The intended aim of this whole episode was to show the world that China is not a power for greater good of the world.

Chinese neighbours, world powers, regional powers will all be concerned with Chinese aspirations, and will try to form a loose alliance to corner Chinese hegemony and assertiveness.
I would add that this could also be a calculated move to pressure Chinese role in POK. Projects run by the Chinese in disputed regions claimed by India will not be taken lightly and this is a way for China to understand the fallacy of its actions in POK.
 

KS

Bye bye DFI
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
8,005
Likes
5,758
I would add that this could also be a calculated move to pressure Chinese role in POK. Projects run by the Chinese in disputed regions claimed by India will not be taken lightly and this is a way for China to understand the fallacy of its actions in POK.
If this is the motive for GoI's reaction, I do not have any words to describe the idiocity of that babu.

Lemme explain why...the crucial difference here is that in POK, like it or not, India is in NO position to assert her authority while the Chinese will be able to assert their claims in SCS...

Yeah they both are similar situations...both countries indulging in projects in disputed areas on the invitation of the other party.Only difference is in the size of muscle.

....which is why we need to somehow bring in the Americans into the picture.Do something as elementary as awarding some of the blocks to Chevron or Exxon. Then the real game starts.
 
Last edited:

SpArK

SORCERER
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
2,093
Likes
1,112
I don't think the Government have balls to stand up to these threats.

OVL wiil be compromised by giving some blocks in Africa by China and this will be settled "peacefully".
 
Last edited:

kickok1975

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
1,539
Likes
350
I think GOI probably was bothered too much by recent anti-corruption movement and therefore is eager to show their strong side that they are still accountable to Indian people by messing up with India's biggest potential threat: China

Even China is probably the most formidable outside threat to India as oppose to India's real threat: corrupted GOI, the conflict between these two countries is still remote. However GOI is keep provoking China to gain their legitimacy to Indian people while China is showing more signs of impatience.
 

Galaxy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
I think Government is just opening an aggressive front which is necessary due to aggressive Chinese move. It's more likely an indication, If you try aggressive move in our backyard @ Pakistan/SL/BD then we will do towards Vietnam to Japan. Tit for Tat. Chinese Navy is not strong or blue navy. So, They can't become aggressive in IOR as of now.

China was trying for strong of pearls, Looks like it's already surrounded by enemy. Europe - Mongolia - Japan - SK - Taiwan - Vietnam - Philippines - India and US 6th fleet.

By 2014, Our navy will be quite strong with 2 CBG.

Let see how game ends or will continue for long time ?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top