India's Foreign Policy.

Compersion

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Idealism in Indian foreign policy is but a tool for exercising political opportunism, to be jettisoned at first cue. No more real than US's talk of freedom, democracy & humanitarian propaganda; & this is how it should be.

The main issue that people seem to be ignoring is that our embassies/consulates in most countries (of interest) are highly under-staffed, so over-stressed (especially compared to Western consulates in countries of interest like Af-stan).

Trust me, these babus & their families are under lot of strain due to this over-utilization & this alone affects their efficiency/productivity negatively.

External Affairs is no easy job (not meant for mediocre individuals) but in India, there are inherent structural flaws when it comes to the tenure/posting of these over-worked individuals.
Great points also the resources of eam needs to consider new entrants at middle level and top level from outside. There is a lot of talent available that can slip in and not need to come from entry level. But it's a system that needs updating in structure since the above would face opposition from the current structure. I read somewhere khurshid had said we plan to increase staff by a thousand and also in at middle level but will see how when the cake bakes.

But i beleive the major point of focus needs to be in selecting the right minister(s) the includes:

External affairs minister
Minister of state (1)
Minister of state (2)

This is currently down to the prerogative of the prime minister and his judgement (as well as legislature considerations and internal political conisderations). (Side note not related - The current govenent selection of the above was at times heart wreching and at one point the prime minister thought himself fit to take on the external affairs portfolio. Also the ones selected can be discussed were they right).

I believe we have to have more scrutiny in selecting these ministers and a more systematic approach with stakeholders involved in shortlisting and supporting candidates that will reinforce india foreign policy objectives. These people are rhe face of indian foreign policy. Obviously this is not only limited to external affairs but I believe the imperative on getting the selection right on external affairs is important more for reason because the past few ones have been without much success. Also indias role is growing and I really believe our role is good and will benefit the world in development and peace.

Additionally - From my understanding the prime minister is a Rajya Sabha member. In a way he was selected for his qualification and became a Rajya Sabha member. In a way to symbolise that the current government had no suitable elected candidate and had to look from outside.

I don't see why a external affair minister and minister of state needs to be restricted in being choosen only from the pool of lok Sabha members. Many of which are unqualified and not tuned to the geopolitics in the modern age. There are some that can do the job but these members can cross into any (and all) ministries and might not even get the external affairs portfolio due to wider considerations. I am sure everyone has their personal choice.

Yes It takes a skill to recognise talent and nature talent. Either we cross our fingers and wish the next prime minister is able to do that. Too bad we don't have a system to select good external affairs minister and minister of state for foreign policy. A bit like the senate approval process in unites states. Even a process of analysing why the minister(s) deserves to be in will be good. A process where the qualification is discussed openly in parliament if not parliament committee.

We cannot wait for a jaswant Singh to appear by magic.
 

Tshering22

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Don't overestimate the prc. They have a lot of weakness and also the india of 2013 is not the india of 1959. We havent touched tibet. Also don't underestimate the provocation the prc does on many of its neighbours. We don't need others help to defend us. But there is a lot of possibilities that include fighting and not fighting. Take the latter and work in the pressure prc feels for its image. And the calculation that is for its internal image. A Chinese intellectual will not impress himself much with what prc is doing. A Chinese intellectual is patriotic but reasonable and pragmatic. Chinese intellectuals talk to many people and interact with many people and want to be considered intellectual. If they aren't its a problem because they will blame not you and I but prc because of its policies. The prc has a lot of internal calculations. And there are certain calculations that they prioritise. World opinion about prc being aggressor and immature is not be taken lightly and it's impact on prc. Can you make fun of a Chinese person because of what prc did. Don't underestimate that.
My friend, I am the last one to over-estimate them, because most communist countries are famous for blowing things out of proportion and showing themselves as some undefeatable foe. They rely on psychological intimidation and propaganda because of the fear of exposing their weakness and thereby leading to questions for their legitimacy in power.

But I am also not at peace.

Why?

Because:

1- We border them. If trouble brews up, Sikkim will face the first flank after Ladakh, Himachal, Uttarakhand and Arunachal.

2- We don't have half the defence fortification that Arunachal has recently acquired. And even Arunachalis are still complaining that it isn't enough to counter Chinese. So you can imagine why.

3- Government attitude towards defence is pathetic when border states are facing the heat. This year beginning, PLA entered Ladakh and threatened shepherds and this regime did NOTHING.

Also take fighting. Why not make the border militarised and build trenches and barb wire. It's a calculation we can deal with and it will be more disadvantageous to prc internally and externally.
WHETHER it is of disadvantage to them or not is not our concern.

I fully advocate fencing the LAC, but the cowardly government is too scared of the PRC's 'annoyance' because the money meant for ramping up defence has been eaten by Madam and her ilk.

So what we were supposed to have 3 years ago, we still don't have it.

Apart from the indigenous agencies' terrible delays on defence goods.

Don't think that I am talking in the air man.

There have been so many scams that we cannot rule out even this theory considering that defence contracts are very meaty.

Also I loved the Chinese pm visit few months ago. Because the incursion happened which was illogical and immature by prc side and also I saw a sea change in indian military thought suddenly. That was the prc cannot say why india considers them a threat and why india will develop its military hardware with china in mind. Our military if you have now noticed is responding look closely and even more in the last few months. They just gave the nation motivation and the region realisation that they are aggressors that was mixed opinion in the past few years.
The military is not autonomous off the civilian government which is currently headed by the most inept and corrupt government in the last 30 years since liberalization.

They cannot take on the spot decisions and have to take a friggin' order for everything.

It cost 7 precious jawans and the jolt of losing 18 sailors in the accidents of Sindhurakshak that pushed Anthony to give full clearance to retaliate. But ONLY for Pak border.

What about our border? What about the 4 border states with China? Why not full blown clearance to retaliate to incursions with counter-incursions into Chinese territory?

Mauni Baba & Safed Dhoti Associates Co. have no answer to that.

I agree the we can do with some executive leadership that is more reassuring and firm and I would say congress has failed terribly on that account.
It has ALWAYS failed to be decisive when it came to China.

After every incursion, we would ramp up defence dialogue and strategic partnership as if nothing happened and Chinese did us a favour. Instead of boycotting all meetings and freezing all dialog until CCP can either change its dubious policy towards us or if it is indeed wanting peace, to control rogue factions of PLA.

As a person from a border state, my trust in this government has completely drained. I had some respect for UPA-1 thinking that Congress has actually changed from the old, absolutist and corrupt style of the Cold War era, but nothing has changed. Instead, they have gotten worse.

But I refer to the video of the times now released today of the prc incursion and officer and soldiers dealt with beautifully. Do these incidents and the way we manage them help us - yes 100%. It makes the prc look like aggressors, immature (picture their soldiers running like its a child's contest) amateurs. If you and I have differences we can talk. Why provoke it can get messy if both are not mature. And this case thank god india is mature. But the risk is the prc is aggressors and these situations can get out of hand. But from my understanding the prc are obedient and follow direction at the low level. I read somewhere the prc is pricking us to make us over react to allow them to act aggressively and militarily. That's the question why are they doing this. Is there something they are not telling to the world. Do they have some problem they are not sharing. Be open. Hence why they are asking for a new border agreement. They are immature and aren't able to handle such things. They want to stop us...
PRC is accused of occupying Tibet with force.

Do you think they care?

They don't.

Because that is the reality.

You have the land, you have its resources in your control, image is of no consequence.

Instead, many smaller countries (not bordering ones), will be impressed and seek you for protection.

No one in the world cares about image when it comes to national interests.

US, Iran, Russia, Israel Syria, China.... you name it. Only we 'oh-divine-free-democracy' Indians care for it.

AND what does concerns for image get us? Losing 19,000 sq Km of land to China and almost three times that amount of land to Pakistan as POK.

Whatever happened to the peaceful rise of china and it being a reasonable power. Don't discount the bigger picture and also have faith in india intellectuals that work behind the scene. Yes the executive can be more firm and show more leadership. But despite that if I look closely mature and good decisions are being made by india and others are taking notice.
What you call mature, is what I and my people call cowardice.

No one is asking MOD to unleash all military on PRC for border incursions.

Simply respond proportionately with power patrols and counter-incursions into their territory.

That's all. Make them see that they are doing wrong and ensure they don't do it again.

Remember this is how we lost east Ladakh (Aksai Chin) to China: inch by inch, metre by metre incursions.

Also brother I will stand by your side. Rest assured I want you and Sikkim to be strong. Things will get better I have belief in the india and our story.
Thanks.

I have no doubt on our jawans, mate. Seven of brothers, both real and cousins, serve in the armed forces with their blood. We are warriors of the mountain and combat is in our bloodline.

But the problem is that the Army of Lions is led by stray mongrels who don't allow autonomy to react as per the situation to our soldiers. That is what shakes my confidence.
 

TrueSpirit

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I support a lot of what you say. I am also from the school of thought where its better to stop someone from trying to slap me instead of me not responding and explaining to the person afterwards why did he slap me and make sure he doesn't do it again. A person will not slap me if i am strong and also if i have shown to him i wont get slapped and have disciplined others and even them from doing that before. but the reality is the border with prc is dynamic and a lot of our land is occupied by them for example north eastern kashmir and kashmir seceded by pakistan. Its a dynamic situation with borders that have not been settled and agreed upon. The prc situation is a problem and needs to be dealt with. And fighting and reacting with aggression might not be wise. Also there are other ways we can make prc uncomfortable and negotiate on our terms. And with this again I reaffirm in future with more intellectual capital being invested you will see more advanced indian army and strategic moves occurring towards prc. These will involve a wide array of channels to put pressure on PRC to resolve the border. It works in our favor to keep status quo. Because we can really put a wide array of pressure. Something to that effect happened on times now today...

Don't overestimate the prc. They have a lot of weakness and also the india of 2013 is not the india of 1959. We havent touched tibet. Also don't underestimate the provocation the prc does on many of its neighbours. We don't need others help to defend us. But there is a lot of possibilities that include fighting and not fighting. Take the latter and work in the pressure prc feels for its image. And the calculation that is for its internal image. A Chinese intellectual will not impress himself much with what prc is doing. A Chinese intellectual is patriotic but reasonable and pragmatic. Chinese intellectuals talk to many people and interact with many people and want to be considered intellectual. If they aren't its a problem because they will blame not you and I but prc because of its policies. The prc has a lot of internal calculations. And there are certain calculations that they prioritise. World opinion about prc being aggressor and immature is not be taken lightly and it's impact on prc. can you make fun of a Chinese person because of what prc did. Don't underestimate that.

Also take fighting. Why not make the border militarised and build trenches and barb wire. It's a calculation we can deal with and it will be more disadvantageous to prc internally and externally.

Also I loved the Chinese pm visit few months ago. Because the incursion happened which was illogical and immature by prc side and also I saw a sea change in indian military thought suddenly. That was the prc cannot say why india considers them a threat and why india will develop its military hardware with china in mind. Our military if you have now noticed is responding look closely and even more in the last few months. They just gave the nation motivation and the region realisation that they are aggressors that was mixed opinion in the past few years.

I agree the we can do with some executive leadership that is more reassuring and firm and I would say congress has failed terribly on that account.

But I refer to the video of the times now released today of the prc incursion and officer and soldiers dealt with beautifully. Do these incidents and the way we manage them help us - yes 100%. It makes the prc look like aggressors, immature (picture their soldiers running like its a child's contest) amateurs. If you and I have differences we can talk. Why provoke it can get messy if both are not mature. And this case thank god india is mature. But the risk is the prc is aggressors and these situations can get out of hand. But from my understanding the prc are obedient and follow direction at the low level. I read somewhere the prc is pricking us to make us over react to allow them to act aggressively and militarily. That's the question why are they doing this. Is there something they are not telling to the world. Do they have some problem they are not sharing. Be open. Hence why they are asking for a new border agreement. They are immature and aren't able to handle such things. They want to stop us...

Whatever happened to the peaceful rise of china and it being a reasonable power. Don't discount the bigger picture and also have faith in india intellectuals that work behind the scene. Yes the executive can be more firm and show more leadership. But despite that if I look closely mature and good decisions are being made by india and others are taking notice.

Also brother I will stand by your side. Rest assured I want you and Sikkim to be strong. Things will get better I have belief in the india and our story.
I had to read your complete post twice to get a gist but I failed :sad: Sorry

Could you please share your views in a few sentences:

What do we need to do NOW ? Prepare, prepare & prepare endlessly ? Talk, talk & talk..no action on the ground ever ? Does status-quo under any & all circumstance suit us ?

Are you suggesting that everything we have been doing is the best we could under the present circumstances ?

In you opinion, we need to prepare a few more years..? How many years, exactly ?

And then ? For what ? How do we know after N number of years that we are ready now ?

How do we tell PRC enough is enough ?

Are you convinced that our responses have been mature & that IA/border forces should more on image-building than safeguarding our territorial integrity ?

Answer these would help. Thank you.
 

TrueSpirit

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China is the bigger power (lets disregard the magnitude, for now). India is an aspiring power. Both are neighbors in an energy-starved geography. Competition & occasional confrontation is inevitable.

China as a statusquo-ist power was somewhat okay with India as long as extreme means of foreign policy are not resorted to. But those means were leveraged against us (fomenting & facilitating insurgency, sabotage, aggressive border-posturing, cultivating proxies like Pakis & arming them with nukes+missiles, etc.).

This is when we could have done equally, if not much, worse to them.

What should sorry us is that PRC (rather the CPC & CMC: powers that be) is not satisfied with that status-quo & wants to change the ground realities.

China turning into an outright revisionist power against India is a cause of great concern & caution. More needs to be done than being done presently.

That is how I see it.
 

Tshering22

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China is the bigger power (lets disregard the magnitude, for now). India is an aspiring power. Both are neighbors in an energy-starved geography. Competition & occasional confrontation is inevitable.

China as a statusquo-ist power was somewhat okay with India as long as extreme means of foreign policy are not resorted to. But those means were leveraged against us (fomenting & facilitating insurgency, sabotage, aggressive border-posturing, cultivating proxies like Pakis & arming them with nukes+missiles, etc.).

This is when we could have done equally, if not much, worse to them.

What should sorry us is that PRC (rather the CPC & CMC: powers that be) is not satisfied with that status-quo & wants to change the ground realities.

China turning into an outright revisionist power against India is a cause of great concern & caution. More needs to be done than being done presently. That is how I see it.
You still are not clear.

What 'more' needs to be done?

Because what I advocated was retaliatory actions in proportionate levels of what they are doing.

What is your version of 'more'?
 

TrueSpirit

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You still are not clear.

What 'more' needs to be done?

Because what I advocated was retaliatory actions in proportionate levels of what they are doing.

What is your version of 'more'?
You have answered the question yourself. I am, actually, not clear on exact measures (if that is you want from me). Am neither qualified nor experienced to formulate polices concerning issues of such sensitive nature. I have read your post. Your views are in sync with mine & in principle, we are on same page. But, something is amiss. Let me find out more regarding it.

I am the proverbial arm-chair analyst (but one with a keen eye). I can get the some info as to what our men posted in the region think about it. Some of my closest friends & relatives are/were stationed in Sikkim in Gorkha Units. Which Units are your brothers posted in ? (PM me if need be). They have shared a lot about the situation but I cannot share it here. Please wait for a day or two (am travelling now) & I would get some more first-hand insight into this.

One thing I would say is the power-asymmetry between PRC & IA on the frontier has decreased to an extent, in India's favour. But, as you already know, infrastructure building needs to done at a breakneck pace but it is mired into bureaucratic maze.

The rot runs too deep in our nation & do not expect this lot of politicians to do anything that could cost them power in forthcoming election. The public exchequer (which is Congress' de-facto election-campaign fund) cannot be wasted on stupid, irrelevant stuff like defence preparedness. Just think how can Food Security Bill be funded if the allocation goes towards war-chest ? One has to prepare for all eventualities so Congress ensures that escalation itself is completely ruled out & they keep bending backwards to accommodate enemies. Same goes for most babus for whom securing plum-posting, extending tenures & getting their cut from tenders is lot more important than trite stuff e.g. allowing clearances for infrastructure-building activities. There is lot more to it but lets leave it at that.

I would share something concrete, soon.
 

Compersion

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I had to read your complete post twice to get a gist but I failed :sad: Sorry

Could you please share your views in a few sentences:

What do we need to do NOW ? Prepare, prepare & prepare endlessly ? Talk, talk & talk..no action on the ground ever ? Does status-quo under any & all circumstance suit us ?

Are you suggesting that everything we have been doing is the best we could under the present circumstances ?

In you opinion, we need to prepare a few more years..? How many years, exactly ?

And then ? For what ? How do we know after N number of years that we are ready now ?

How do we tell PRC enough is enough ?

Are you convinced that our responses have been mature & that IA/border forces should more on image-building than safeguarding our territorial integrity ?

Answer these would help. Thank you.
What I am saying is that we are having the right fundamentals if we look closely mature decision are being made. This is done with the shadow of poor leadership and domestic issues (political and economic). This shadow is something that made me disheartened earlier. But I looked closely and I have seen good mature decisions are being made. It tells me something is right.

If the domestic issues are resolved the foreign policy will inevitably become more assertive and firm.

Yes the implementing can be better. And also as alluded by a few of us above we need to seriously look at structure and expansion of ministry of external affairs and have a good, dynamic, intellectual foreign minister. We also need strong leadership at the political level, diplomatic level, economic. The world wants to engage us and we have potential.

Answering your questions:

What do we need to do NOW ? Prepare, prepare & prepare endlessly ? Talk, talk & talk..no action on the ground ever ? Does status-quo under any & all circumstance suit us ?
I reaffirm in future with more intellectual capital being invested you will see more advanced indian army and strategic moves occurring towards prc. We really have not really started with PRC to our optimal capability. The India of 2013 is not India of 1958. We dont want war with PRC but we also dont accept their aggression towards us. I mean we are only now developing new mountain strike corps and also military positioning. It ought to have been done earlier. But people will also say its being done. The fact is that PRC has advantageous position on the border. What do we do to make it into our advantage without fighting think about that question.

Are you suggesting that everything we have been doing is the best we could under the present circumstances ?
Not at all. We can do better. But we are doing something which is done with due thought process and will have a impact on PRC.

n you opinion, we need to prepare a few more years..? How many years, exactly ?
If the domestic issues are resolved the foreign policy will inevitably become more assertive and firm. It can be months, it can be years. It depends on the next election.

And then ? For what ? How do we know after N number of years that we are ready now ?
When PRC responds by negotiating to resolve the border to terms that we want. Its not that far away.

How do we tell PRC enough is enough ?
We need to get in a position where PRC tell us enough is enough. Like i said more intellectual capital is being invested you will see more advanced indian army and strategic moves occurring towards prc. We are in a position to do this like never before.

Are you convinced that our responses have been mature & that IA/border forces should more on image-building than safeguarding our territorial integrity ?
Our response have been mature. Its not about image building. Also safeguarding our territorial integrity can be done with both a shield and a sword. The question is why is the aggression from PRC there. We are responding in a more intellectual way thats my feeling. If the next election works out in a good way you will see a continuation of this with more firmness and assertiveness.
 

SamwiseTheBrave

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Idealism in Indian foreign policy is but a tool for exercising political opportunism, to be jettisoned at first cue. No more real than US's talk of freedom, democracy & humanitarian propaganda; & this is how it should be.

The main issue that people seem to be ignoring is that our embassies/consulates in most countries (of interest) are highly under-staffed, so over-stressed (especially compared to Western consulates in countries of interest like Af-stan).

Trust me, these babus & their families are under lot of strain due to this over-utilization & this alone affects their efficiency/productivity negatively.

External Affairs is no easy job (not meant for mediocre individuals) but in India, there are inherent structural flaws when it comes to the tenure/posting of these over-worked individuals.
why has this structural weakness not been remedied ? i agree its a clear and present handicap for our diplomatic corps and its very puzzling why its been allowed to persist for so long. whats holding us back here ? India has always traditionally had weak FM & HM`s since the PM or the Puppet Masters behind the throne, have controlled the domestic and foreign dealings all the time. again, this weakens institutional structures and brings an individual bias/skew in our approach.
 

nrupatunga

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nrupatunga

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Abe + Abbott + Modi: The AAM trilateral that could stop China's rise
It's an interesting coincidence that Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Japan - his first bilateral trip outside the subcontinent - is being followed so quickly by the arrival in India of Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Like Modi and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, Abbott represents a right-wing political constituency, has a spare, no-frills style and has made economic diplomacy and a clear-headed approach to China's ascendancy central to his foreign policy. Few countries in the region have more in common today, both in values and interests, than India, Australia and Japan.

Abbott is building on a bipartisan legacy. India and Australia have had a growing relationship since John Howard and Atal Bihari Vajpayee took the initiative a decade ago. More recently, the UPA government sent a series of ministers Down Under. It was a Labour Party PM, Julia Gillard, who made the effort to change party and national policy and called for selling uranium to India. An agreement on nuclear commerce will probably be finalised by Abbott and Modi. It is not as if the relationship has been without hiccups.

Australian over-reaction to India's Pokhran II tests in 1998; Kevin Rudd's swashbuckling but ill-fated swerve to China as PM, and his initial snubbing of India; the violence against Indian students in Melbourne in 2009; India's economic decline in the past few years: all of these led to the India-Australia partnership delivering below potential.

Yet, this is an opportune moment. In November,Modi travels to Brisbane for the G-20 summit and could follow it up with a bilateral visit, the first by an Indian PM since 1986. The tensions of 2009 are a thing of the past and India constitutes the largest source of skilled migrants to Australia, having supplanted China in 2012. The scope for business is enormous. Energy security is a key thrust of Modi's international engagements and Australia has coal and gas to offer, as well as uranium as and when India's nuclear plans firm up.

Mining, as finance minister Arun Jaitley has pointed out, is critical to the government as a driver of growth and employment. Here again, there is place for Australian expertise.

With the hope of legislation to end Coal India's monopoly and permit merchant mining, there will be room for Australian mining conglomerates. Of course, this may require a shift in orientation. Some Australian resources giants, such as BHP Billiton, have been keener to export to India, rather than their hands dirty in actual mining operations.

In the Modi era of 'Come, Make in India', this may not go down well. To be fair, others like Rio Tinto and Hancock have demonstrated interest in collaborating with Indian partners. Education and skill development is another vast sea waiting to be explored. The University of Melbourne, for instance, rated consistently in the top 40 in the world, got no more than 17 undergraduate students from India at the beginning of this academic year.

This should change. When it comes to skilling and vocational education, Australian institutional advantages can fit well with New Delhi's ambitions of equipping a young population for jobs, as evident from the setting up of a separate department of skill development.

Beyond economics, there is politics. Two decades ago, India's 'Look East' policy was constructed around an outreach to the Asean bloc, with Japan and Australia viewed as a second tier, to be met using Asean-centric frameworks such as the East Asia Summit.

Today, Asean is a weaker collective. The ability (and willingness) of many of its members to say 'no' to China has declined. Vietnam, the Philippines and, to a degree, Indonesia emain among the last holdouts.

Given this, India's quest for achieving regional balance - a polite, bland euphemism for addressing the China question - will inevitably see it seeking arrangements beyond the Asean combine, with individual South-east Asian countries, as well as with Japan and Australia.

In time, Abe, Abbott and Modi could emerge as the Indo-Pacific's AAM trilateral.
 

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