Indian defence industry exports watch

[SHASH2K2]

Virtually all of india's indigenous projects are dependent on foreign components, for example the the helicopter which india has sold to Ecuador, is 90% foreign by value. The same goes for Arjun tank, dehli destroyer. This fact pretty much ensures that indian products should they make it to the market, will not have the price advantage over similar, but quality-wise superior western products. I wonæt be surprised if the liquid fuel powering india's prithvi missiles, is in fact made by chemicals supplied by China. India does not have very good fundamentals, that's why most indian projects, be it civilian or military, fail often or take exceedingly long time to complete.

At least we buy them and donot steal like what China does. You people feel proud about stealing while we feel ashamed . Its all about mentality but I am preaching it to wrong people.

 

[tony4562]

We have passed the stage of stealing/copying. We have sent human into space, built the fastest super computer known to mankind, possess the world's largest high-speed rail network, we are also home to world's largest car market, consume more steel/concrete than the rest of the world put together, Chian is also adding the entire power gneration capacity of britain each year, what more can you ask? Further more, Huawei is now no.1 company in the world in patents filing, and China is now a leader in green-technology. Go check out my hometown, s 2nd tier city in china and you will know that the gap between us and you guiys is greater than the gap between the yankees and us.

 

[maomao]

We have passed the stage of stealing/copying. We have sent human into space, built the fastest super computer known to mankind, possess the world's largest high-speed rail network, we are also home to world's largest car market, consume more steel/concrete than the rest of the world put together, Chian is also adding the entire power gneration capacity of britain each year, what more can you ask? Further more, Huawei is now no.1 company in the world in patents filing, and China is now a leader in green-technology. Go check out my hometown, s 2nd tier city in china and you will know that the gap between us and you guiys is greater than the gap between the yankees and us.

No you have not passed that level, still you are copying and stealing designs......Atleast you have admitted that you steal and copy! China is all about propaganda and nothing more, in the end they end up buying Russian products and sell their Crap to Failed States such as Somalia, Sudan, pakistan, and others without inducting such junk themselves.:happy_2:

 

[SHASH2K2]

We have passed the stage of stealing/copying. We have sent human into space, built the fastest super computer known to mankind, possess the world's largest high-speed rail network, we are also home to world's largest car market, consume more steel/concrete than the rest of the world put together, Chian is also adding the entire power gneration capacity of britain each year, what more can you ask? Further more, Huawei is now no.1 company in the world in patents filing, and China is now a leader in green-technology. Go check out my hometown, s 2nd tier city in china and you will know that the gap between us and you guiys is greater than the gap between the yankees and us.

But still china steal technologies from Russian weapons . you are planning to make a 5th generation plane but have to engine to install in that .
I would love to get your opinion on that thread .
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=10524

 

[plugwater]

This thread has become another India vs China thread.. What does china copying stuffs have to do with India's arm export ?

 

[Madhavbhartia]

I think the point here is not stealing or buying from others....neither anything against China or any other nation....

The main point is that India is a big importer of arms and export is very less....If we are targetting to be a superpower some day in future, we need to develop our own defence industry which can fulfill needs of our own forces as well as get us some revenues from exports....

Most of the ppl agree that because of less private sector participation & slow government ways we are slower and not that efficient...

I think to interest private sector govt also increased the FDI to 49%...what else can be done pplz suggest....

May be Govt. should include pvt. partnership by way of IPO's which will give some extra funds as well as clear the way for pvt companies which might prefer to avoid this not so clear procedure....

May be Govt. should start Outsourcing few of defence stuff to Indian Pvt companies so that they might get some time to understand it...starting from simpler to more complex...

May be self introspection why its in a bad state and possibility of improvements...

ISRO is also Govt owned and does a fine job...so may be compare with it and change some functioning the way other works...

 

[sayareakd]

forget export we have to reduce import to great deal our own market is so big.

 

[SHASH2K2]

I think the point here is not stealing or buying from others....neither anything against China or any other nation....

The main point is that India is a big importer of arms and export is very less....If we are targetting to be a superpower some day in future, we need to develop our own defence industry which can fulfill needs of our own forces as well as get us some revenues from exports....

Most of the ppl agree that because of less private sector participation & slow government ways we are slower and not that efficient...

I think to interest private sector govt also increased the FDI to 49%...what else can be done pplz suggest....

May be Govt. should include pvt. partnership by way of IPO's which will give some extra funds as well as clear the way for pvt companies which might prefer to avoid this not so clear procedure....

May be Govt. should start Outsourcing few of defence stuff to Indian Pvt companies so that they might get some time to understand it...starting from simpler to more complex...

May be self introspection why its in a bad state and possibility of improvements...

ISRO is also Govt owned and does a fine job...so may be compare with it and change some functioning the way other works...

Problem that we had with our defence industry was lack of investment or money.Defence industry needs a lot of money and years of hard work. Unfortunately till now we had neither money nor experience . Due to booming economy and lots of years of research we have all that we need to do well. We are a critical break even point and withing 5-6 years results will be out for everyone to see . you might have read Kaveri news. Its a great milestone and it means we have solid base in metallurgy and it will be foundation for further improvements in aircraft engine technology. Despite stealing designs China is unable to build a decent engine because mastering somecritical technologies is not a cakewalk. Till now only 3-4 countries are capable of making Aircrafts engine and they all have over 80-90 years of experience . so I would say we are doing great with our limited resources and our self imposed ban from stealing .
Also our policy of Joint developments will bear fruits as it will help us to level the technology gap . All I would say is that future is bright for us .

 

[Madhavbhartia]

forget export we have to reduce import to great deal our own market is so big.

Definitely to reduce imports....But reduction of imports of only those items which we can produce indigeniously at proper time line....

In defence industry one country can't have expertise in all areas...so definitely import will be always required to some extend via technology transfer or some other goods etc....

One more area we can think about is expertise....

Say if India gets expertise in small arms to start with and is able to fulfil all domestic demands then to keep this small arms industry running at maximum capacity we need more customers and hence exports is required...
Similarily, India may not have expertise for Aircraft carrier and getting local industry to make it will take more time or not feasible, in that case India has to depend on imports...

So probably India should focus on some particular expertise areas...and convert them from Importing one to exporting one...which in future should be able to sustain itself without any Govt help and can do some R&D too...

 

[tony4562]

WS10 is powering China's latest J11s. Yes developing a jet-engine takes time and money, China has paid enough of those and now the effort is coming to fruition. JF-17 too is now being test-flown with an indigenous replacement and work on a next generation engine (WS-18) has been underway in China for over a decade now.

jet-engine development has now reached critical mass, just like many other things before that.

 

[Shredder]

I feel the lag is because for the first time India is developing things on its won, like a fighter, tank, advanced electronic equipment,

also the bureaucracy and is holding things up, mainly the politicians want to import weapons to get kick-backs, and why are these scum turning down requests to export equipment?

 

[ejazr]

India pushes for export of military arms and ammunition

The Indian Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is pushing to improve its visibility and market overseas. This includes registering itself with Defence Foreign Procurement Officers of other nations through Defence Attaches offices and advertising through magazines.

In past 3 years, the OFB has exported to US, Italy, Belgium, Israel, Singapore, Chile, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Australia, Botswana, Nepal, Turkey, Thailand, Kenya, Bangladesh, Aden and Suriname.

Although minuscule in terms of international arms trade, the exports in last 3 years have risen from 12.28 crores to 42 crores.

The exports include KAVACH MOD II and AK 630M to Italy; 5.56 mm cartridges to Israel, Singapore and US; 40 mm L"70 GUN BARREL and cartridges to Singapore; 7.62 mm machine guns (MAG) to Saudi Arabia; 105 mm ammunition to Botswana, Vintage rifles and spares to Australia etc.

OFB has also put up its products for exports on its websites prominently.

 

[Tshering22]

We have these weapons indigenously? How come its news has never been made public? Wow! Didn't know we had stuff worth exporting yet other than big ticket stuff like Tejas, Arjun etc.

 

[captonjohn]

great new though, at least we have started to produce these things indigenously. :happy_3:

 

[Rahul Singh]

Unless we form an exclusive import/export authority on the lines of ROSOBORONEXPORT and NORINCO we are sure to under perform even in future. We can't expect organizations like OFBs and HAL to do all sorts of aggressive marketing in between arms mafia, there has to be an dedicated organization to look after.

 

[sandeepdg]

I agree to that, Rahul. We need a capable organization to handle the marketing and promotion of OFB and HAL products in foreign markets, similar to what the Russians and Chinese have, otherwise we will hardly grow as an exporter.

 

[Tshering22]

First of all, rapid manufacturing and swift designing procedures have to be carved out. At the present rate, we are not even close to making 50 Tejas in 1 year let alone that is needed to timely fill IAF's slots forget exporting them to foreign countries. Same goes for Arjun. DRDO is barely making any serious marketing attempts to market Arjun as a potential export tank and is simply relying on indigenous orders... opposite of Russian weapons makers (who rely on foreign exports totally). Arjun Mk-1 is strong enough to carve a niche in the current tank market in Latin America, Africa, Southeast Asia and other countries. It is a pity that Sarkari karmcharis don't have the marketing and promotion acumen in promoting their products on a world scale despite having aptitude and ability to overcome international communication barriers.

I think DRDO should contract private advertising firms to promote their products because honestly "DODO" people won't know jack about how to make some of our better-than-firangi products look superior. Most people including a vast majority of our people think that just because other stuff is foreign made, it must be divinely superior; a mentality that our own IAF and Army suffers currently with BIG TIME.

 

[Agantrope]

First of all, rapid manufacturing and swift designing procedures have to be carved out. At the present rate, we are not even close to making 50 Tejas in 1 year let alone that is needed to timely fill IAF's slots forget exporting them to foreign countries. Same goes for Arjun. DRDO is barely making any serious marketing attempts to market Arjun as a potential export tank and is simply relying on indigenous orders... opposite of Russian weapons makers (who rely on foreign exports totally). Arjun Mk-1 is strong enough to carve a niche in the current tank market in Latin America, Africa, Southeast Asia and other countries. It is a pity that Sarkari karmcharis don't have the marketing and promotion acumen in promoting their products on a world scale despite having aptitude and ability to overcome international communication barriers.

I think DRDO should contract private advertising firms to promote their products because honestly "DODO" people won't know jack about how to make some of our better-than-firangi products look superior. Most people including a vast majority of our people think that just because other stuff is foreign made, it must be divinely superior; a mentality that our own IAF and Army suffers currently with BIG TIME.

Tshering whatever it may, anyone working with the govt organisation will fel like they are their employee and they will do the same as what DODO people are doing. People need to learn from Yankees on how to market their products.

 

[pmaitra]

So India is exporting 5.56 mm cartridges to Israel now? Amazing. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Israel who supplied India with desperately needed 5.56 mm cartridges during Kargil War?

 

[Rage]

So India is exporting 5.56 mm cartridges to Israel now? Amazing. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Israel who supplied India with desperately needed 5.56 mm cartridges during Kargil War?

It was indeed.

I think I know the reason why India could be supplying Israel with the 5.56x30 mm: the round, essentially reminiscent of the COLT 5.56×30 MARS cartridge, is an orphan. It would seem especially useful for varminting <the 5.56×30 cartridge can launch a 55gr FMJ bullet at 2600 fps> as necked down to its .22 or .17 caliber form and the IMI guys or a subsidiary in Israel probably wildcat 'em if the Ordnance Factory, Varangaon doesn't have the necessary equipment <which they probly do>. It is a very niche market, and as it stands, there is only one manufacturer that manufactures a similar cartridge: the 17/221 Fireball brass, namely Remington.