India’s aircraft carrier strategy ‘a failure’ says Chinese military strategist Liu Kui

SexyChineseLady

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If the Vikrant can't be functional until 2026 then the severely limited Vikramaditya will be the only Indian AC for next decade.

This is the bad program planning that the author says China should avoid since by 2026 China should have at least three carriers: Liaoning, Shandong and the Type 002 being built right now in Shanghai.
 

Indx TechStyle

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He elaborated in his article. It is just his opinion to other Chinese. He is not saying anything to Indians.
Like Sina's claim that China can block India will a single submarine?
Carry on, keep saying and making fun of yourself in media.
Basically, he said that the Indian carrier program is poorly planned, the ships are too expensive for India's economy and
Not really but Indian Economy is yet to big enough. And it's going to be till it welcomes it's nuclear carrier.
the Indian ship-building industry is not big enough to support building carriers.
Utter stupidity, India has even entered top 10 shipbuilding nations.
If countries with smaller shipbuilding industries made carriers, why India can't?

Delays are normal in first attempt.
But India did this, launched a 40,000 tonnes carrier in first attempt, inside top 15.
So China should plan better,
Definitely, you must take it seriously instead of naming catapults as pure EMALS to take on others. PS, this isn't 90s, you won't be getting any ToT, Russia doesn't have it either.
For example, Vikramaditya was way overbudgeted for free carrier with a very limited operational design (large island that forces it to have only one lane so it cannot launch and recover at the same time, also its lift is in the middle of its runway(!)).
It wasn't intended of superb role either, India's own carrier will be.
Don't expect to be have great on imported weapon that even an older one modified.
The reason for this is India's limited shipbuilding capability that forced it into such a bad design by making it dependent on Russia.
The only reason was there India was latecomer in carrier building.

The same "poor" shipbuilding industry helped India to build up some of world's largest stealth DDGs, ballistic FFGs & many other sorts of small & big support ships which made Indian Navy 5th largest in world in terms of total displacement.

Now, India has ventured to make LPDs also after years. It's more to be a matter of priority than capability.
We have been operating carriers since 60s, may be we knowing better than you regarding this topic.
Because Expensive but safe carrier is proved to be more effective than a cheaper but unreliable carrier in wartime. Cuz once a carrier is gone, billions are sinked.
:playball:
Expensiveness can't be preferred at cost of safety. Otherwise, it's proved to be more costly.
Anyways, it is his opinion. He does not expect any Indians to read it.
He said this to media, must be okay with reactions too.
I hope you yourself aren't that Liu Kiu (whatever his name) came here to defend yourself.
He is saying that China can avoid the same mistakes by looking at India.
Not doing really, after being rattled by a small packet size Indian Mars Probe Mgy-1, there was some noise & arguments there in PRC and now China is going to try to send rover in first attempt while India's even second Mars mission is a again an orbiter.
I hope China is aware that Mars landing is different from Moon landing and PRC doesn't have enough atmospheric data unlike India.
If India is founding out it's data insufficient, then, think about China!:bounce:
 

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Actually, China is way more nervous about the US Navy. But China is a new aircraft carrier nation so India used as a point of reference here as another carrier nation from Asia and the 3rd World. Comparing to the US is not helpful.

To be perfectly honest, the Americans called India's first Indigenous AC, the Vikrant, a horribly mismanaged project that is over budget and will be delayed until the middle of the next decade. The Vikrant is exactly the example that the author wants China to learn and avoid by looking at India's program.
This is the Wall Street Journal article on how Americans view the Vikrant: it is nothing short of a disaster that will take a decade to fix.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-effort-to-help-india-build-up-navy-hits-snag-1480501812
Funny!
You know I prefer to trust on original shipbuilder and Indian Navy's vigilance to check out schedule instead of some random "analysts" sitting 14,000 kilometres away who have nothing to do with project.

Nor Indian Standards match US's carriers.
 

SexyChineseLady

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China has a space station and a manned moon landing that will gain most of the headlines and budget. The Mars rover will be significant but not major compared to the other two. This will be China's first Mars project on a Chinese launch vehicle. The first Mars project was a much smaller one piggybacking on a Russuan rocket that blew up.

On the carriers, will be fun to see what happens in 10 years. Right now, it looks like China will end up far ahead. If the Americans are right about the Vikrant not being ready until 2026, it will be almost certain that China will have at least three to India's one by then.

Also, China is building an unprecedented amount of escorts for the Battle Groups. There are at least 13 Type 052D and four Type 055 in various stages of completion.
 

Bornubus

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And Chinese Casino Class Aircraft carriers are only good ministry of Propaganda Affairs or amusing the Communist Party politicians to play Poker onboard with their corruption money.
 

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The Mars rover will be significant but not major compared to the other two.
May be, but is there any advantage of failed attempt? Without complete atmospheric & geographic data by orbiter, who'll make heat shields & landing system?
You need retro thrusters as well for landing experiment. It can't simply land on surface like Yutu rover. You are facing both atmosphere and gravity like earth on Mars.
Right now, it looks like China will end up far ahead.
Launching first in 2017 & 6 by by 2030? Not possible.
If the Americans are right about the Vikrant not being ready until 2026,
By what logic? Surprised to see a Chinese having so much trust in America & it's analysts far away from project.

Why do you think Vikrant will be in 2026 and not 2018-20? Tell me.
it will be almost certain that China will have at least three to India's one by then.
We will see even if China inducts first one in this decade.
Also, China is building an unprecedented amount of escorts for the Battle Groups. There are at least 13 Type 052D and four Type 055 in various stages of completion.
So, is India. Also, building overseas bases.
 

vinuzap

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communist propaganda machinery fooling its innocent crowd again


more reason for india to sabotage CPEC
 
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Srinivas_K

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Actually, China is way more nervous about the US Navy. But China is a new aircraft carrier nation so India used as a point of reference here as another carrier nation from Asia and the 3rd World. Comparing to the US is not helpful.

To be perfectly honest, the Americans called India's first Indigenous AC, the Vikrant, a horribly mismanaged project that is over budget and will be delayed until the middle of the next decade. The Vikrant is exactly the example that the author wants China to learn and avoid by looking at India's program.
India is been operating aircraft carriers for almost 50 years now. India is not a new nation to aircraft carriers.

Yes anything Russian is anti american.

There is more rhetoric from China towards India these days.
 

SexyChineseLady

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India is been operating aircraft carriers for almost 50 years now. India is not a new nation to aircraft carriers.

Yes anything Russian is anti american.

There is more rhetoric from China towards India these days.
You mentioned that Americans see the Vikrant as top quality, I cited that article from the Wall Street Journal that Americans actually have very little confidence in Indian planning or manufacturing ability.
 

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You mentioned that Americans see the Vikrant as top quality,
Read that post again, he said about India's second indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vishal, not Vikrant which will be close to western standards if materialized as planned.
I cited that article from the Wall Street Journal that Americans actually have very little confidence in Indian planning or manufacturing ability.
Their confidence won't matter either. They aren't buying it from India.


Indian Manufacturing ability? I think annual year's statistics will be better for you instead of just citing a designated line that India does not have capability (from a source or logic yourself don't know :biggrin2:).

Vikrant is barely a 10,000kms range conventional carrier to protect IOR, not for invading world. Vishal will be there for it.


Plus, I don't wanna litter the thread with Economics and Indian manufacturing ability. Please provide basis of your "confidence" before I start busting this.
 

SexyChineseLady

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I am just citing the Wall Street Journal which is a major Western source. Please read the article in its entirety. The piece says the US wants to help India with its carrier program but were shocked by how poor the planning, build quality and manufacturing capabilities were and said the Vikrant would take a decade to right. The Vishal could be better if the US was involved early but there is no design yet.
 

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I am just citing the Wall Street Journal which is a major Western source.
Carrier is being built by Cochin Shipyards, not Wall Street Journal, case closed.
The piece says the US wants to help India with its carrier program but were shocked by how poor the planning, build quality and manufacturing capabilities were
Isn't that enough to explain you?:biggrin2:

They want India to buy goodies from them for Vikrant.
No missile systems? What the heck this journo is writing? CIWS & even ship launched ballistic missiles were developed, tested & operationalized long ago.
The Vishal could be better if the US was involved early but there is no design yet.
No one is in hurry to involve foreign player.

Designing is being done as per schedule and construction of carrier will be started at schedule,
Not 5 years before schedule when Indian Economy is not able to fund it.
 

Srinivas_K

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You mentioned that Americans see the Vikrant as top quality, I cited that article from the Wall Street Journal that Americans actually have very little confidence in Indian planning or manufacturing ability.
That is because they are expecting contracts !
 

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Irrelevant, internal planning for a safe maritime era for each of the naval divisions is upto the respected states. Standards and equipment as one knows goes with the environment, and not for cameras and tail. This is my personal brainwave; I am not trying to break up a good time.
 
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roma

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prcchina's strategy towards treating people as humans and strategy in evolving its system towards democracy is a dismal failure
 

IndianHawk

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I am just citing the Wall Street Journal which is a major Western source. Please read the article in its entirety. The piece says the US wants to help India with its carrier program but were shocked by how poor the planning, build quality and manufacturing capabilities were and said the Vikrant would take a decade to right. The Vishal could be better if the US was involved early but there is no design yet.
Same Americans say that Chinese weapons are junk why don't you accept that first . :pound::pound:
 

J20!

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Guys, I'd urge restraint WRT commenting on this article since it really doesn't have any specifics worth debating on a defense forum. The author and this "expert" are pretty light on technical and policy details. What specific problems are Indian Navy carriers facing(Vikrant&Vikramaditya)?

Its basically a fluff piece. Don't you suppose it would be better to await actual specifications from the shipbuilders and the IN itself after shipbuilder's and end-user trials are conducted on the Vikrant at least? As to who will commission what first, let's wait and see instead of speculating needlessly.

And I'm sure the IN could teach the Chinese Navy a few things WRT operating carriers... They have been doing it for far longer.

This thread is basically one big flame bait.
 

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