Indians who sided with invaders against their own

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Project Dharma, May 20, 2017.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    33,131
    Likes Received:
    19,254
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Interesting thread. Thanks for opening. I will comment later. I hope people get along in this thread as it can be incendiary in content. :)
     
    Razor likes this.
  2. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    33,131
    Likes Received:
    19,254
    Location:
    EST, USA
    OT: Our late Brigadier Ray Sir was from the Mahar Regiment.
     
  3. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
    Traitors or not! I cant still fathom why Marathas after joint campaign with Sikhs, handed over Punjab's governership to Afghani(one version is they could not agree on distribution of spoils of war)! What had happened about to their slogan about establish Hindu swarajya in India and driving yavanas out?

    I would say, some strategic and tactical foolish actions done in past were no less than treachery!
     
    Krusty and Project Dharma like this.
  4. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes Received:
    9,654
    Location:
    United States
    Weren't we Punjabis regarded as Malleccha due to foreign mixing in blood by some other Indians?
     
    AnantS likes this.
  5. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
    Doubt that or rather I would admit I dont know. It would be laughable even if such claims were made about "mixing of blood". Common Hindus/Sikhs rarely "mixed" with outsiders. Violators within their community were shunned. Case in point Do you know Ranjit Singh was given Tankhaiya by clergy at GT because he was seen frolicking with a muslim concubine on an elephant in public at Amritsar(or Lahore ... dont remember)
     
  6. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes Received:
    9,654
    Location:
    United States
    Yes, that was a time when the Akalis (Nihang Singhs) ruled the Takht. And their ferociousness against outsiders would put the most hardcore RSS/Shiv Sena or any other Hindu organization to shame. After the Singh Sabha in the 1920s they were kicked out of the panth or rather sidelined by the Tatt Khalsa Singhs who rule the panth today and they pander to Muslims because of a false belief of similarity due to monotheism.

    Anyway, your example is relevant because it is near the time period of the Marathas. I was thinking of a much earlier time period.. Punjabis (Jatts, upper caste Hindus) have intermixed Caucasian and NE European blood in their DNA and I read in a book (albeit it was written by a Britisher so I don't trust it) that they were treated as malleccha at some point in history.
     
    An Angry Potato, AnantS and aditya10r like this.
  7. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
    Ummm again I doubt. See PD why? Because its only after Iron age, caste became rigid Hindu society. It became rigid to preserve indigenous culture and bloodlines, as after that period there was a lot of migrations to India from other parts of world. Kasmiris are mostly Indo scythians converted enmasse to Budhism under Kanishka and later Hinduism.

    I dont trust Brits on any racial theories. Late studies indicate current Indians are mostly mixture of two ancient groups. ANI(Ancient North Indians ) and ASI(Ancient South Indians)
     
    raja696 and Project Dharma like this.
  8. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
  9. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    adina beg was the maratha governor of punjab . he was a punjabi muslim not afghan .

    the marathas wanted someone who could make the punjab expedition profitable for them . adina beg was the only one who promised to hand over 75 lakh rupees per month to the marathas if he was given governorship of punjab . the sikhs promised much less and the revenue the sikhs promised was not enough to satisfy maratha appetite .

    after peshwa bajirao's death his son nanasaheb became peshwa . he was not as committed to the hindu cause like bajirao or shivaji and marathas began to extort money from north south and east indians even though they all were hindus . he was ready to sell governorship of punjab to the highest bidder even though that person was muslim .
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  10. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
    Lol Yes correct. another article on him from neighboring cesspool https://www.dawn.com/news/617952
     
  11. Krusty

    Krusty Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    4,775
    :yawn: Ok I was hoping someone would post about Raja Jai Singh ... fine, I shall stir the hornets nest myself soon.
     
    AnantS and Project Dharma like this.
  12. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes Received:
    9,654
    Location:
    United States
    Here is the reference for our original conversation. I will try to dig up more from the source mentioned by Dahiya (Pargitar) but keep it for another thread.

    It is significant that they are called 'Mlecchas'. This is a ready-made test for identifying these people. If they are called 'Mlecchas' or 'Sudras', or Vrishla Asuras-then it is a sure bet that the people named are 'foreigners' and most probably Jats from Central Asia (cf Mauryas). It is the direct result of the "arrogance", noted by Pargitar, which termed all the Punjabis as Mlecchas or Sudras.

    Jats, the Ancient Rulers: A Clan Study
    Bhim Singh Dahiya

     
    AnantS likes this.
  13. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Location:
    Yatra Tatra
    Seems like more of guess work as its based on (british) premises that Jats were from Central Asia. Even if Jats are of Indo Scythians/Saka origin, their origin is mostly cited to be in Xinjiang region(which itself was known to host various Indo European tribes). Then Sakas have been living in India much before Mauryas. Gautam Budha had Saka origin. He was known as Shakya Muni. So Sakas getting discriminated as mlechas is doubtful but up for another discussion in another thread.

    Mlecchas was used for any outside invader/immigrants. Case in point, when British came, they were called mallechas, the high caste did not share utensils with them, their used utensils were kept separate & outside from rest of household utensils. If I remember reading literature, earlier in that era(preceding Maurya) people were not happy from fleeing refugee population from Iran, due to onslaught of advancing Alexander Army. Kushans/Greeks/Mixed progenies were looked down upon. if I remember correctly long back, I read in tribune an article about Magh tribe in Haryana( I found that article http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000520/windows/main4.htm... ). You will find interesting that these people are still (wrongly)looked down upon by localites.
    But I disgress. Last post on this topic by me on this thread.
     

Share This Page