Indians who sided with invaders against their own

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Project Dharma, May 20, 2017.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Its more important to know about their mentality and what pushed them to side with enemy ..

    Keep in mind, Traitor will always remain in a society of any kind, Its important to recongise them and separate their influence from society ..

    Today we have a large population and 10% of them are traitors. 10% may sound small but from a population of India its quite large, These people are bigger threads then enemy outside our walls ..

    I suggest keep this thread for academical purposes rather another mudfest, Their is always gud and bad in all societies ..
     
  2. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Thread is sticky along with some other ..
     
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  3. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

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    Well, although this is true, it is both unfair and incomplete without mentioning:

    1) 1857 Mutiny was by Poorbia soldiers who had just fought the Khalsa in Anglo Sikh wars which the Sikhs ultimately lost. There was no love lost between the two and large parts of Sikh soldiers were eager for revenge.

    2) Mutineers were trying to appoint a Mughal king to the throne in Delhi. For obvious reasons, this was unacceptable for the Sikhs.
     
  4. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    Sure. Well I read an article on FB regarding the resurgence of Khalistan issue in Canada and US now, and in the comments as expected it was mostly Pakis frothing from their orifices for Khalistan which is not surprising, but I did happen to see some Sikhs too mostly from west countries and in a small margin some Sikhs from India too, wanting a Khalistan. I mean in India everybody has immense respect for Sikhs and love them and would fight for them without a second thought. So why are some of these Sikhs [mostly foreign] so hell bent for a separate country? I mean why can't they have a Khalistan state and still be part of India. Are most of the Sikhs in Canada, US so much against India? 84 was a very sad chapter for India but what is done is done, the person responsible was also assassinated so why still this hate?

    Sorry for off topic.
     
  5. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

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    I'll reply in the chit chat thread :) Wanted to keep this to <1947 if possible.
     
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  6. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    Sure No problem.

    30000000000000000000000000000000000000
     
  7. Innocent

    Innocent Regular Member

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    We are going to see a lot of Betrayal..
     
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  8. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    shivaji's son sambhaji was captured by mughals with help from shirke family of marathas . actually sambhaji was at sangameshwar in konkan . he had only few soldiers with him as that place was considered far away from mughal territory and relatively inaccessible . along with him was his trusted friend kavi kalash , who was a brahmin from kanauj ( UP ) . the two were engaged in revelry as they did not feel any danger from mughals .

    what they did not know was the fact that the shirke family of marathas had defected to the mughals . actually the passes of the sahyadri range were impassable for the mughals as they were mountainous and densely forested . but the shirke family guided a force of mughal soldiers led by muqarrab khan through all the dense forests and mountains to the place where sambhaji was staying . sambhaji was captured and carried through the dense forests and mountains with the help of shirkes into mughal territory before the marathas could rally and save their king . sambhaji and kavi kalash were brought before aurangzeb and killed in most inhuman fashion .
     
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  9. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma दुष्ट आत्मा Senior Member

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    I forgot to tag you! I'm glad you found this thread and replied, I've read some of your other posts and you seem to know a lot of history. Thanks for replying and please post more.
     
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  10. S.J

    S.J Regular Member

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    Maharashtrians to this day have a liking to betray each other
     
  11. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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  12. Vayuputra

    Vayuputra Regular Member

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    Is it true that chitpavansm peshwas wer crypto jews masquerading as hindus were responsible for fall of mighty shivaji empire?
     
  13. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    sikhs claim that dogra ruler gulab singh betrayed them in first anglo sikh war .

    copy/paste---
     
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  14. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    there are some theories about chitpawan ( kokanastha ) brahmins being descendants of jews .

    but hindus believe they were created by lord parshuram . read the story of their creation here---

    http://hindumyths.blogspot.in/2009/03/how-chitpavan-brahims-got-their-name.html

    instead of destroying maratha empire they enlarged it and it reached upto attock in punjab under peshwa nanasaheb .
     
  15. S.J

    S.J Regular Member

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    I agree, the maratha empire was at its peak (in terms of land under control) under peshwas in 1761 , but the panipat happened.
    Panipat, infighting and British were the three main reasons for the maratha empire's Downfall.
     
  16. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    I have read a lot on the glorious dogra rule in Kashmir in this forum (and the glorious dogra wars that defeated the mighty Chinese in China's own backyard). To me it seems that the glorious dogra rule was a puppet state under the able divide and rule policy of the british.

    And about the glorious sikh rule, after Ranjit Singh's time, the sikh soldiers learnt to be part of the machinery of british empire and did really well in british indian army. Nothing really wrong with that.

    Just two opinions on the two glorious "martial races" of India :)
     
  17. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    according to 'history of gujarat' written by edalji dosabhai , king bhimdev solanki of gujarat was bitter enemy of prithviraj chauhan . he fought many battles with prithviraj even as the forces of muhammad ghauri were knocking on the gates of india . he did so against the express advice of his courtiers who advised him to forget differences with prithviraj in view of the danger from the mlenchhas ( muslims ) and unite with prithvi .

    ultimately chauhan defeated bhimdev in a great battle , but a lot of soldiers were lost in the battle . and in the crucial battle of tarain , bhimdev refused to come to prithviraj's aid---which resulted in weakening of the hindu front . after defeating prithviraj the muslims attacked gujarat too later and thus both the chauhan kingdom and gujarat were destroyed .

    of course , the betrayal by jaichand is too well known to be recounted here .
     
  18. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    The betrayal in the eastern side..

    We all know about this. That Mir Jafar betrayed Siraj-Ud-Daula in battle of plassey. Mir Jafar's co-conspirators were Jagat Seth (the jain marwari seth ji) and Amir Chand (not sure which language he spoke in his time though!)

    I of course don't think these betrayal/ conspiracy was anti-indian in nature. Siraj-Ud-Daula was not exactly Indian. He was the descendant of invaders anyway. Robert Clive was also an invader. So in this case one invader was betraying another invader with the help of ever helping baniyas. Lot of good came out of this betrayal. The British Raj kicked off in India.

    The "martial races" became modern day equivalent of automated fighter robots in British Indian Army and non-martial races (Bengalis!!) became modern equivalent of automated clerical tools (or AI!!) in Colonial British computing powers.
     
  19. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    how marwari banker jagat seth helped mir jafar betray bengal to the british under clive . to be fair one has to admit that jagat seth had been insulted by the nawab of bengal ( siraj ud daulah ) earlier when siraj had tried to wring out a large sum of money from him and seth refused . siraj had reacted by slapping and jailing jagat seth . jagat was smarting due to the insult .

    copy paste---

     
  20. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    a scholarly series of articles on mercantile & intellectual collusion of some Indics & communities with abrahamic invaders in history. penned by the famous trio of Dikgaj-Shanmukh-Saswati Sarkar (and joined by 2 more researchers). collection-worth stuff! the thread has been made sticky, & as @Kunal Biswas wrote, for academical purposes, this series is absolutely apt, and a MUST-post/read for this thread! provides a fuller insight into the issue, rather than just reading about battle-stuff. since the article is lengthy, posting just the link here:

    https://www.myind.net/Home/viewArticle/indic-intellectual-and-mercantile-collusion-invaders-–-relative-positioning

    P.S. - BTW in all this, ie, all the posts made and info shared here so far, & esp. with respect to the article(s) i shared now, like how @Screambowl had written recently (about things remaining to be the same then & now & in future too), things/situation(s) look to be more or less the same. @Kunal Biswas also mentions that traitors remain, in every country & society. compare this with contemporary India, and you'll find many matches. just names, figures have changed. professions, MO, etc. remain more or less the same.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017

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