Indian Woman for Combat Duties

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by A.V., Sep 28, 2009.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    The goverment has recently made it clear to the delhi hight court that women cannot be granted a permanent commission in th armed forces
    Currently, women are inducted in the army as officers under the Short Service Commission for a maximum period of 14 years. the GOI,s point in the court was
    that

    1>male and female officers are trained differently and that cadre management would become a huge problem if rules were to be changed.

    2>It further adds that granting permanent commission to women officers will have enormous financial implications.

    what do the members here think about this recent posture by the goverment please bring in your vaild points in respect to

    1. Is the goverment acting gender biased?
    2. How would the armed forces stand to gain by inducting more women in its ranks?
    3. isnt there an optimal solution for this problem considering all wings of the armed forces are facing shortage of mid-high level officers?
    4. Whats the status of other armed forces in this regard ? where do they stand on this?
    5. your own idea to solve this deadlock..



    please read the dfi hq rule before you post
     
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  3. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    No it is not. People tend to forget(maybe not) that Women can get pregnant. That means women are unavailable for duty for almost 3 years. Maternity leaves will make it financially unviable for the govt to permanently station women in the armed forces. It will mean training more women for replacement and the cycle continues.

    Women can no doubt handle administrative duties during war times. While we can have men take charge of actual military duties.

    If we do take women officers, the shortage will be even more severe if the women take maternity leave in just 3 or 4 years after joining the service.

    Also, women will be treated as second class citizens compared to male counterparts. They will have trouble getting promotions if there is a male colleague of the same rank available.

    All are debating the maternity issue itself. Some *****s give distraction as an excuse too. And generally women are looked at being soft, weak minded and not able to take decisions that may not be according to the book.

    I doubt there are many women involved in actual combat duties.

    I have no problems with women being able to take charge. But, it is very difficult to solve the maternity issues. We may have to look at the corporate world for solutions as they are also bogged down by the same issues. Just that the problems women face in the corporate world is lesser than in the military.
     
  4. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    There are plenty of desk-jobs in the Indian armed forces, the signals, and other administrative positions, where women be given greater preference over men. Women in the army, and BSF in particular, are important since they can be deployed to frisk women moving between Nepal-India border, and Bangladesh-India border. Women civilians are used to ferry fake currency, drugs, for example, and hence women in the BSF is called for.
     
  5. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    @tarun : Women are already in large numbers in IPS and BSF.
    The moot point is should women be given active/combat duty in the armed forces ?
     
  6. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    That's a little tricky, but a good start towards that would be setting up an equal-opportunities commission similar to that in Britain. Rather than ground-combat, women can be given positions in the Air Force and Navy, and make sure that on their merit at least a few women commanding officers are created.

    As for ground combat, they can certainly serve under short-service, albeit prevented to marry (and preventing maternity leaves, etc.). I think such a code exists with some sections of the armed forces. AFMC for example, prevents its students from marriage during their course, and possibly during their mandatory service/internship.
     
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  7. corpus

    corpus Regular Member

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    women have active combat role in CRPF and police force... moreover women have active combat role in a lot of countries and they do not have problems..
     
  8. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    a lot of countries would not have the conservative culture India has,although India has a rich history of ladies taking up arms to defend their king and country(rani lakshmibai)such an analogy would not hold completely true in the modern military setup for example a few problems that could occur on the frontlines would be

    1- Extra expenditure in setting up separate bathroom/toilet facilities for women to use may not be feasible in remote borders.
    2-Lodging facilities for women shall also have to be created anew in front areas.
    3-As earlier pointed out in this thread women get pregnant and would be unavailable for duty for long periods of time.Also the period of mensturation must be taken into account as many ladies feel sick during that time.
    4-in the worst case scenario if ladies are taken POW it could raise a whole new aspect of sexual torture and harrasement.
     
  9. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    The problem is more with mindset than with the ones you quoted. Israel, US, UK has women soldiers in active duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so I don't think it is such a big deal if we get out of the mindset that women may prove to be a liability in the battlefield.

    Setting up 2 toilets would not be such a big issue, as all toilets are makeshift structure in forward areas.

    As to the POW scenario, I agree it is a valid and worrying scenario.
     
  10. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, woman, no cry

    Oinam Sunil 7 November 2009, 10:59am IST

    Something extraordinary happened in Manipur on July 15, 2004. A bunch of feisty old women, angry at the alleged murder and rape of 30-year-old
    Manorama Devi at the hands of the armed police, headed straight to the Kangla Fort, which then housed the Assam Rifles, and stripped themselves bare.

    As the nation, which had till then shut its eyes to the deadly implosion in this small northeast state bordering Myanmar, was startled into awakening by shame and disbelief - images of 12 naked "brave mothers" screaming from every newspaper and TV channel - prime minister Manmohan Singh was forced to constitute a committee to review the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), a law every Manipuri swears has been scandalously misused by the administration.

    During his Imphal visit in November that year, the PM met the women and consoled them saying he will give back to Manipur the historic Kangla Fort, which for 113 years had symbolised state excess and repression, first by the British and then by the Assam Rifles. After soldiers of the berated paramilitary force hurriedly vacated the sprawling enclosure, the gift was made to an agonised people on November 20.

    Manipur's iconic women protesters had made a telling point yet again, defeating forces mightier than them for the umpteenth time in a struggle for human rights that started more than 100 years ago when they fought the British in 1904 to stop them from compelling local men into forced labour. Nearly 5,000 women had agitated against this and forced the administration to reverse its order. Since then, women here have involved themselves in war at crucial junctures in the state's troubled history whenever they found their men paralysed by brutal regimes.

    Another major protest called Nupi Lan (women's uprising) was recorded in 1939. Women launched a violent battle against the oppressive policies of the then maharaja of Manipur, Churachand Singh, and his British agent. The women campaigned hard to abolish the economic policies that permitted rice to be exported out of the kingdom at the cost of its own people's access to food. The women, who controlled the food market, surrounded the State Durbar Office and faced the Assam Rifles, which they are fighting even today. For months, the women who ran the main Khwairamband bazaar in Imphal, refused to operate and ended the boycott only when it appeared that the Japanese, who were already in Myanmar, would enter Imphal. To this day, women control Khwairamband, which is supposed to be the biggest women's market in Southeast Asia.

    Circumstances have now forced women to challenge the system. But history and culture have prepared them for their fight. Though Manipuri society is primarily patriarchal, women play an important role as well. The indigenous Sanamahi religion, which Manipuris follow along with Vaishnavism, has both a priest and a priestess, a rare phenomenon. Moreover, in the olden days, the kingdom of Manipur was either constantly at war with Myanmar (formerly known as Burma) or busy battling petulant hill tribes. As the king used men to build his army, taking them on armed expeditions that lasted months, it was left to the women to fill the gaps in society.

    This continued after the British conquered Manipur , the country attained independence, and after Manipur merged with India in 1949. As insurgency hit the Imphal valley in the late seventies, the men began disappearing again - just like the time when they had silently followed their kings.

    Irom Sharmila Chanu, who has been on an indefinite fast for nine years as she calls for an end to AFSPA, is a shining example of the indomitable spirit of Manipuri women and their resolve to establish a just, peaceful society. Now called "queen of the prison" , she says she will go on as long as her flesh and bones allow her. "I have a dream - a dream that the international community will listen to our voice against human rights abuses in our land," she told TOI-Crest in Imphal a few months ago as she was being produced in court. The 41-year-old , who began her protest after jawans of the Assam Rifles gunned down 10 civilians at Malom, in Imphal West, on November 2, 2000, knows that New Delhi has done nothing about the Justice (retd) B P Jeevan Reddy Committee report that recommended the repeal of AFSPA. She also understands that the Manipur government has quietly rejected her demand. But these "betrayals" have not shaken her. She is determined to continue her fast from inside the security ward of Imphal's J N Hospital.

    Sharmila, though, is fortunate to survive. Manorama Devi, picked up by the Assam Rifles on July 10, 2004 for being a suspected member of a banned militant outfit, was found raped and murdered the next morning. Her bullet-riddled body had been flung not far from her house in Ngariyan Hills. It was this that prompted the Meira Paibis (women torchbearers) to do the unprecedented nude demonstration, holding banners with 'Indian Army rape us' written on them.

    One of the protesters, 80-year-old Thokchom Ramani, remembers that day clearly: "We knew it was an extreme step for a woman. But when we saw young Manorama violated and murdered despite Assam Rifles issuing her family an arrest memo, we realised that the Act would always be misused. It was raw anger." She also remembers telling her friends that she wanted to teach soldiers and officers of the regiment a lesson. Of course, she is disheartened that nothing much has changed after the movement against AFSPA began in 1980. "But I won't give up until my death. Someday, someone will have to listen to us, to the pain of Manipur, to the relentless attack on our lives and dignity, to the shame and humiliation we go through when we are raped and kicked, when our husbands and sons go missing."

    Not that the fights these women mount are aimed just at the armed forces and the state and central governments. Women in Manipur have also had to combat the increasing use of drugs and subsequent emergence of HIV/AIDS as one of the biggest killers of their people. In fact, it was only after women "banned" the sale of Indian made foreign liquor that the government of R K Ranbir Singh imposed prohibition in 1991. Till today, Manipur is officially a dry state.

    "There is always something to fight for, to defeat and triumph over,'' says Ramani.

    For the women of Manipur, life will always remain a lot less ordinary.

    No, woman, no cry - India - The Times of India
     
  11. Elmo

    Elmo Regular Member

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    But who's the 30-year-old who got murdered? Did I miss something there :help:
     
  12. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    manorama devi, 30 yrs old, a manipuri woman was suspected to be having links with terror outfits. she is alleged to have been raped and killed by the army people. there is a case on with the army personnel.

    MANIPUR ?THE NAKED TRUTH :: KanglaOnline ~ Your Gateway

    Manorama Devi had links with terrorists: Army

    but people say she was innocent. that incident led to curfew. people protested strongly and they want the AFSPA to be repealed in the state of manipur.
     
  13. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    These calendar woman(no pun intended)would do better if they can convince their sons and husbands to go back to their fields or factories and start earn proper livelihood and not waste their life and that of their kinsmen fighting the state(which is elected and represented from among them).........If Indian soldiers commit any crime,there are mechanism within the organization to hold them responsible.AFSPA exists for a reason and baring all wont make it go away.

    P.S:Sorry to have said this in the manner,but somethings have to be said the way they are.
     
  14. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Speaking from the perspective of air force,think women getting into short service commission is just fine. This might sound discriminatory, but as it is known, women are family starters both in Indian society as well as general world. This is not an imposition but a norm of society. Infact, I personally feel that women would be a welcome among us since women are known to have better G enduring capacity than men in many aspects.

    However, right now is not the time since we are currently in the process of modernization and therefore its too risky for women to fly obsolete aircraft. Once we have a modern fleet in the coming 8-10 years of time, women may join short service commission. This was a smart comment made by Barbora sir as he was firm enough to express his views.

    Apart from air force, I think women can do a better job than men in the non-combatant roles. They are dedicated, hardworking and can be excellent team leaders in organization and management of the non-combat operations. Women are also known to leave men behind as an overall figure in academics especially in colleges and universities.

    This means that they can be a great asset to the now modernizing aeronautical and marine industrial complex in India. As our economy grows, our military industries will be more self reliant and therefore, women engineers, designers and managers would serve far better than men in these fields.

    Besides, the Indian society is not used to seeing women taken as prisoners of war. While I wouldn't hope to be taken as one, I still feel that the Indian society is too warm to lose women in the frontline.
     
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  15. RAM

    RAM The southern Man Senior Member

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    No combat yet for women in forces: Govt

    NEW DELHI: The government on Monday ruled out any possibility of deploying women officers in ‘combat roles’ by allowing them to fly fighters or serve in the infantry or on board warships in the near future. Defence minister A K Antony, however, said the armed forces were closely watching the trend around the world to review the decision at a later date. Replying to a question from BJP leader Sushma Swaraj in the Lok Sabha, Antony said, “Gradually, they will play combat role... the day will come.”

    Recalling it was only in 2008 that the government had decided to grant permanent commission to women officers in some wings of the armed forces (like law and education), Antony said it would take some time to give them more challenging roles.

    Swaraj said that keeping in view the tradition of brave women in the battlefield, starting with Rani Lakshmibai, the government should think of creating all-women battalions to be led by female officers.

    No combat yet for women in forces: Govt - India - The Times of India
     
  16. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    old article but the woman is still on hunger strike. she is force fed!!

    Would Gandhi Win Today?

    by Rita Manchanda

    [​IMG]

    Satyagraha (literally, the quest for truth; Mahatma Gandhi's tool of non-violent political protest) has recaptured the public imagination, sparked off by the film, 'Lage Raho Munnabhai', which argues for Gandhism as the idiom even for our cynical times. But translated into lived political experience, could moral courage stir the conscience of Delhi's power elite?

    Irom Sharmila Chanu - satyagraha's new icon - believes so. For three days (October 4 to 6, 2006), she took not a drop or water or nourishment. Dehydrated, but full of passionate conviction, she lay at Jantar Mantar - that hub of protests in Delhi.

    In November 2000, Sharmila, then 28, resolved to fast unto death to protest against living under State violence in Manipur and to demand a repeal of the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act 1958 (AFSPA). The security forces had gunned down 10 civilians waiting at a bus-stand in Malom near Imphal on suspicion of being insurgents. It was a routine manifestation of how the armed forces abuse the powers that AFSPA vests in them.

    Threatened by Sharmila's peaceful protest, the State took her into custody. For six long years, she has been force-fed through a nasal drip in a hospital room guarded by policemen. Because she is custody on charges of attempted suicide, Sharmila can only be held up to a year. So, on October 3 every year, she is released and then re-arrested. On October 3 this year, Sharmila escaped to Delhi before she could be rearrested. Here, she took up her fast-unto-death again.
    Sharmila's agency is remarkable. But in the Northeast, she is not alone. Women of various ethnicities in the Northeast have a history of being at the forefront of struggles for peace and justice - acting as shields, negotiating with the security forces and militants for the safety of their communities, mediating inter-factional violence, and emerging as the frontline against human rights violations. In Manipur, among the Meitei community, women still have childhood memories of the Nupi Lan - the women's war against British regulations on the rice trade. As adults, they became active as the Meira Paibis (literally, torchbearers), who patrolled the streets at night, guarding their sons from being picked up at random by the security forces.

    It was one such group of Meira Paibis that on July 15, 2004 staged a nude protest against the killing of Manorama Thangjam, 32, by the Assam Rifles. Alleged to be an 'explosives expert', Manorama was picked up by the Assam Rifles, raped and killed. Anger and desperation at the failure to get justice led 12 women to strip naked holding aloft a banner that read, "Indian Army Rape Us." Asked about rape charges against the security forces, Commander-in-Chief of Eastern Command Lt General Arvind Sharma told the Imphal media, "In a large army like ours, such incidents are likely to occur" but the "wrong side are punished".

    Feminist scholarship has established that rape does not 'occur' in war. Rape is used as an instrument of war. Today, this is duly recognized by the International Criminal Court, Rome Statute. Article 8(2) and Article 7(1) recognize rape as a war crime and as a crime against humanity.

    In counter-insurgency wars, civilians are the direct targets in the strategy to destroy community support. Disappearances, extra-judicial killings, torture and rape constitutes the language of these wars. And the broad, vague powers under the AFSPA have produced a climate of abuse and misuse. Section 4 enables arrest without warrant and authorizes a non-commissioned officer to shoot to kill on mere suspicion. Section 6 makes it mandatory to seek permission from the Central government before initiating legal proceedings against armed forces personnel.

    Not surprisingly, AFSPA was modeled on a colonial Ordinance to counter the Quit India Movement. Introduced in Assam and Manipur to tackle the insurgent Nagas, AFSPA produced a total militarization of the struggle. Finally, in 1997, the government of India entered a peace process with the dominant Naga militant movement, recognizing that the struggle was political and its resolution too must be political. In Manipur, AFSPA was introduced on September 8, 1980, when only four armed opposition groups were operating. Today, there are more than 30 groups and violence has penetrated every facet of life in Manipur. In 1990, the AFSPA was promulgated in Jammu and Kashmir, leading to not only widespread alienation but also a substantive expansion of militancy.

    Challenged in the courts as unconstitutional, the Supreme Court upheld its validity and recommended a government review. It took the protest campaign galvanized by Manorama's killing to force the government to constitute the Justice Jeevan Reddy Committee to review AFSPA in the Northeast. The report was submitted in June 2005 but not made public. The Defence Ministry was adamant. They needed AFSPA. According to leaked excerpts, the Review Committee unanimously called for its repeal.

    However, with AFSPA removed from the municipal limits of Imphal, and the political opportunity to forge a common front of Northeast civil society groups squandered, the campaign again lost steam. That is, until Sharmila shifted her protest to Delhi.

    But her tryst with Delhi has failed to impact the corridors of power - not even enough to make public the Review Committee report. Perhaps the Northeast is too peripheral for Delhi to take notice? Or could it be that the din around national security has drowned out the call for respecting human rights? Perhaps the protest of a woman, traditionally lacking in authority, did not register? At any rate, non-violent protest, Gandhigiri-style, has not worked here.

    Sharmila, her life at risk, has been shifted to All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi. The nasal feed has been resumed. Will she become another forgotten Gandhian icon? Or worse still, a martyr?

    October 29, 2006

    (Rita Manchanda is a journalist who has written extensively on human rights and security issues, particularly the role of women in conflict and peace-building.)

    Would Gandhi Win Today? by Rita Manchanda
     
  17. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    she really deserves credit for being the person longest ever on a satyagraha. unfortunately with insurgency in manipur, GOI has a difficult task one way or the other. hopefully with bangladesh, bhutan and may be myanmar too cooperating hope that AFSPA would be history and bring much cheer to the people of manipur.
     
  18. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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  19. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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  20. Archana Ramakrishana

    Archana Ramakrishana New Member

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    Women in infantry


    Why aren't women still allowed in the infantry of the armed forces? why are we still being confined to office work? We aren't delicate darlings. thre can be another Jhansi ki Rani among us in the future. If you still say that it isn't a male dominated society, then why don't we catch women marching towards the battle field with arms and ammunitions? trust me we have the caliber to come upto a male commando.:dfi-1:
     
  21. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    welcome to the forum regarding women in infantry they are already on patrol duty please check relevant threads for updates and put your question there
     

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