Indian UGCV & UGV

[hitesh]

There are different size, the size DRDO guys have are better when providing suppressive fire from streets, perfect in CT areas..

Due to height it have better visual and bigger size gives bigger engine and batt hence longer range and endurance compare to small ones..

==============

What you are comparing is with something underpowered and undergun, They are degraded compare to DRDO one..

But question arises ,can this robot feasible for ' AGS-30 mm ' automatic grenade launcher as the recoil can easily flip this machine .don't you think so

 

[hitesh]

There are different size, the size DRDO guys have are better when providing suppressive fire from streets, perfect in CT areas..

Due to height it have better visual and bigger size gives bigger engine and batt hence longer range and endurance compare to small ones..

==============

What you are comparing is with something underpowered and undergun, They are degraded compare to DRDO one..

But question arises ,can this robot feasible for ' AGS-30 mm ' automatic grenade launcher as the recoil can easily flip this machine .don't you think so

 

[The Last Stand]

But question arises ,can this robot feasible for ' AGS-30 mm ' automatic grenade launcher as the recoil can easily flip this machine .don't you think so

They did say this monster can be supported.

 

[sayareakd]

But question arises ,can this robot feasible for ' AGS-30 mm ' automatic grenade launcher as the recoil can easily flip this machine .don't you think so

have to paid attention to the fact that this robo is bottom heavy and center of gravity is at the bottom side not in the middle,

please also understand that robo is tested in field with all the things. Plus 6 wheels provide stability of the platform, as it require only 4 wheels for stability still two extra wheels to provide extra stability to platform so that it wont flip.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don`t believe that would be the case otherwise they would not feature them so, for example the US made once you posted feature 50cal AMR, I can say the same about it..

I would rather be happy if they put a little bigger platform with twin AGL and a 7.62/5.56mm Mini Gun

But question arises ,can this robot feasible for ' AGS-30 mm ' automatic grenade launcher as the recoil can easily flip this machine .don't you think so

 

[ramakrishna]

I have seen another Robot by Boston Dynamics it is amazing , I wish India to have similar kind of robot in coming days..

Here is the Video :

Video feature: Latest in Defence on WildCat robot and smart material for armour - Army Technology

 

[Kunal Biswas]

DRDO begins testing gun-mounted robot

February 21, 2012: After the success of the Daksh ordnance disposal and surveillance robotic vehicle that was recently inducted into the Army, and receiving good reviews from the user, DRDO laboratory R&D(E) has finished prototyping a combat robot codenamed GMR (gun-mounted robot), that it intends to offer to the Army, paramilitary forces and police forces in the next two years. ( 2013 or 2014 ) First displayed at Def Expo 2010, the GMR has now matured enough for development trials in simulated scenarios.

The robot's primary weapon will be an indigenous remotely operated 7.62-mm gun along with a grenade launcher. DRDO scientists, in cooperation with academic institutions and private incubation firms, are confident that the GMR will be comparable with similar systems already deployed by the US forces, especially in Iraq. Fitted with sensors for around-the-corner targetting and damage assessment, the GMR will be offered in both tracked and wheeled variants. The GMR and Daksh are only two of a substantial list of robotic vehicles being developed in-house. The most ambitious of these is a full-sized remote-controlled armoured vehicle. Last year, the DRDO even held a nationwide competition to pick the best unmanned ground vehicle developed by academic institutes across the country. Technologies from these will be infused into future programmes.

Source : DRDO begins testing gun mounted robot - SP's Land Forces

 

[mehrotraprince]

All is good but few major things they missed..

1. Wheel is faster but not good under firefight, Tracks are good solution over off-road as well as normal and can take hits..

Yes wheels are not good for firefight in head on condition and off-road capability also decreases as compared to tracked vehicles but they have few negative points which includes much more noise generation and are much heavier, this robot is designed to assist military personals and not to replace them.........these are designed for silent and surprise attack.

2. The vehicle need to have a Diesel engine to power its electric Motors and electronics, IC engine will power batt and batt will power every thing..

Again diesel engines generate lot more noise and are heavier, for that you need heavier platform, means you need to increase the size .......which will result in easy spotting by enemy force(in this case terrorists).

3. Vehicle needed to be bigger not smaller, A man of height of 5feet 7 inches can hide behind it,

Similar reason, bigger the platform, less chances to hide and surprise your enemy, plus they are not to protect solders but lead them so that solders can operate them from safe distance.

4. Its Weaponry & Optics should be protected by metal shields.

Yes I agree, need to protect critical components especially sensors like camera and other tracking devices.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I wont be replying the rest, But first on what your argument is based on ..

I wanted to know where it is written or said by DRDO that its design for silent and suprise attack with a MMG and an AGL ..

Yes wheels are not good for firefight in head on condition and off-road capability also decreases as compared to tracked vehicles but they have few negative points which includes much more noise generation and are much heavier, this robot is designed to assist military personals and not to replace them.........these are designed for silent and surprise attack..

 

[mehrotraprince]

I wont be replying the rest, But first on what your argument is based on ..

I wanted to know where it is written or said by DRDO that its design for silent and suprise attack with a MMG and an AGL ..

No need to explain it to person like you that its the military who puts up the requirement.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is working on an ambitious Rs 500-cr unmanned ground vehicle (UGV) programme that seeks to address the Army's requirement for various types of UGVs over the next 10 years.

The use of UGVs, which are state-of-the-art robots, has acquired a greater significance in counter-insurgency, urban- as well as jungle-warfare situations for varied tasks, including surveillance and reconnaissance operations and safe handling and disposal of improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

For counter-insurgency and jungle-warfare you need silent UGV's.

"We are in talks with para-military forces like the National Security Guards, which requires the UAV for counter-terror operations in an urban setting, and the Central Reserve Police Force, which is dealing with Maoists or Naxals in jungles," he added.

DRDO plans 500-cr unmanned vehicle project for Indian Army - Times Of India

This report is 2 years old but hope this will clear why I said that our immediate requirement are silent UGV's, which will be developed into full fledged combat vehicles in near future.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is no where it said what you are saying, It is your assumption that you are taking it as a fact and putting a official tag to it without proper links, It is also your thinking that such UCGV of that size and armament have to be silent for CT and for Jungle warfare, Where as the link was mentioning variety of other UGV not the DRDO UCGV ..

There is no where mention of GSQR for UCGV, Nor any of the link suggest, So does what you quoted says about UAV for NSG and Paramilitary they are not talking abt UGV, What you suggested its your own conclusion of the matter, Not Official words ..

Continue as you were ..

No need to explain it to person like you that its the military who puts up the requirement.

For counter-insurgency and jungle-warfare you need silent UGV's.

DRDO plans 500-cr unmanned vehicle project for Indian Army - Times Of India

This report is 2 years old but hope this will clear why I said that our immediate requirement are silent UGV's, which will be developed into full fledged combat vehicles in near future.

 

[cloud]

This thing is not made for real wars!! But rather a RC toy fitted with guns etc for the use of CT ops, where the army can sneak it inside a house or inside enemy's area where a few terrorists are hiding behind a wall/bushes.

It has got 200 meter range only tells that Soldiers will always be very close to place where they will be operating it. In real wars enemy will most likely already know the presence of our troops(when they are so near) and they will be alert for such kind of thing, may be after a taking first few surprises bullets, news will spread fast among enemy.

Also I have serious doubt that if this can aim and fire even at 20% efficiency of a trained soldier, because the operator will be using a remote and will not have a situational awareness(from eye one can easily spot certain objects, but with a camera, one needs to find that thing on a tiny LCD screen)/quick reaction in aiming via hand would really not match the mechanical rotor. (the difference is like when you play a shooting computer game using a mouse you can get the cursor from one end to another in one mouse stroke, but while playing with gamepad, you need to press the up/down, right/left button and it goes a with a constant speed.)

Now coming to wheels, @Kunal Biswas, I think for the vehicle of this size, wheels are better options. Because when it is so light, ground pressure will not really matter with six wheels, as the stress on the ground will not be high, and it should work well even in muddy/sandy situation(which they should have already tested). For such small vehicle using tracks means, most probably we have to go with the rubber tracks, as metal track at such small size will not really offer anything extra, except for reducing the efficiency, Small arm bullets against this size, will act similar to what an actual tank track will behave when hit by another tank gun. So if track gets broken by a bullet hit, vehicle will get disabled. Also there a good possibility of small objects such as stones or small wood sticks coming in between tracks and wheels and it will make the whole thing stuck. For wheels even the front 2 are hit or even if all are hit by bullets, as long as they keep rotating, it will move, because it is light and there is no risk of getting someone killed, meaning operator can call it back slowly(also I assume that the wheels at this size will use solid rubber like in toys, not tubes/tire combo).

Making a bigger machine with more capability will put it into a totally different category altogether, i. e. for the actual war, but for that range needs to be increase many folds with front and side armor protection from atleast 20-30mm gun and with a capable gun, and when it becomes heavy due above said things, then tracks too.

One thing that I would like for such small vehicles is to be able to raise height of the 7.62 mm gun when required via remote control(may be by 20cm). Because when operating there are good chances that small objects or ground pot holes or small up and down level for ground will obstruct its vision or may provide better cover, so having that capability will have many use, similar to how a soldier takes cover while lying down, but fires by raising his hand/head only.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You have missed the context of my post, Do read the first page ..

Few things which are incorrect in your post >

1. The system is design to fight infantry, Let it be troops or terrorist in regular or irregular warfare..
2. RCWS are very capable system, Can engage targets accurately with 50cal ..

Rest are you view on the subject ..

This thing is not made for real wars!! But rather a RC toy fitted with guns etc for the use of CT ops, where the army can sneak it inside a house or inside enemy's area where a few terrorists are hiding behind a wall/bushes.

It has got 200 meter range only tells that Soldiers will always be very close to place where they will be operating it. In real wars enemy will most likely already know the presence of our troops(when they are so near) and they will be alert for such kind of thing, may be after a taking first few surprises bullets, news will spread fast among enemy.

Also I have serious doubt that if this can aim and fire even at 20% efficiency of a trained soldier, because the operator will be using a remote and will not have a situational awareness(from eye one can easily spot certain objects, but with a camera, one needs to find that thing on a tiny LCD screen)/quick reaction in aiming via hand would really not match the mechanical rotor. (the difference is like when you play a shooting computer game using a mouse you can get the cursor from one end to another in one mouse stroke, but while playing with gamepad, you need to press the up/down, right/left button and it goes a with a constant speed.)

Now coming to wheels, @Kunal Biswas, I think for the vehicle of this size, wheels are better options. Because when it is so light, ground pressure will not really matter with six wheels, as the stress on the ground will not be high, and it should work well even in muddy/sandy situation(which they should have already tested). For such small vehicle using tracks means, most probably we have to go with the rubber tracks, as metal track at such small size will not really offer anything extra, except for reducing the efficiency, Small arm bullets against this size, will act similar to what an actual tank track will behave when hit by another tank gun. So if track gets broken by a bullet hit, vehicle will get disabled. Also there a good possibility of small objects such as stones or small wood sticks coming in between tracks and wheels and it will make the whole thing stuck. For wheels even the front 2 are hit or even if all are hit by bullets, as long as they keep rotating, it will move, because it is light and there is no risk of getting someone killed, meaning operator can call it back slowly(also I assume that the wheels at this size will use solid rubber like in toys, not tubes/tire combo).

Making a bigger machine with more capability will put it into a totally different category altogether, i. e. for the actual war, but for that range needs to be increase many folds with front and side armor protection from atleast 20-30mm gun and with a capable gun, and when it becomes heavy due above said things, then tracks too.

One thing that I would like for such small vehicles is to be able to raise height of the 7.62 mm gun when required via remote control(may be by 20cm). Because when operating there are good chances that small objects or ground pot holes or small up and down level for ground will obstruct its vision or may provide better cover, so having that capability will have many use, similar to how a soldier takes cover while lying down, but fires by raising his hand/head only.

 

[cloud]

You have missed the context of my post, Do read the first page ..

Few things which are incorrect in your post >

1. The system is design to fight infantry, Let it be troops or terrorist in regular or irregular warfare..
2. RCWS are very capable system, Can engage targets accurately with 50cal ..

Rest are you view on the subject ..

Thanks, May be sometime I will read on RCWS.

I guess then, we will need something better, maybe I guess both the types. one for coin type ops, which is cheaper and more portable and other for regular infantry on border etc.

The spec sheet in first post shows the weight of the system as 300KG, but from the looks in those photos it hard to digest that those thing will weight even more then 50-60 kgs. Am I missing something?

 

[mehrotraprince]

There is no where it said what you are saying, It is your assumption that you are taking it as a fact and putting a official tag to it without proper links, It is also your thinking that such UCGV of that size and armament have to be silent for CT and for Jungle warfare, Where as the link was mentioning variety of other UGV not the DRDO UCGV ..

There is no where mention of GSQR for UCGV, Nor any of the link suggest, So does what you quoted says about UAV for NSG and Paramilitary they are not talking abt UGV, What you suggested its your own conclusion of the matter, Not Official words ..

Continue as you were ..

What make you think that each and every GSQR will be published for the common people, how many countries openly disclose each and every GSQR for public consumption? One can only speculate......

It is also your thinking that such UCGV of that size and armament have to be silent for CT and for Jungle warfare

Then whats the choice........ send some UGCV with loudspeaker(in this case noisy diesel engines) so that enemy can easily spot it and prepare in advance for countermeasures.....these are not tanks designed for open field but small machines with effective range of only 200 meters. These are small enough to camouflage in the LOC terrain in which our solders operate.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IMHO, We need various types of UGCV from Heavy to Medium and Light ones for various roles such as for Infantry fire support to Light attack & recon version and etc ..

Now lets focus on DRDO one, The UGCV design is very impressive but again the designers used heavy weapon system on a lighter chassis based on wheels, Now will it work ? Probably yes and may be effectively under its own limits ..

BUT

Will it able to use full potential of its the weapon system ? No .. because 30mm AGL and FN-MAG are suppressive weapon system with high recoil, An RCWS will take its full blow but not the chassis ( Will break down and will provide inaccurate fire ) , And as i have been seen these weapon on range and over field areas these are not used for close quarter combat but use for long range and suppressive fire and mounted over heavy vehicle or outpost, For Such a chassis a Sub-machine Gun / Pistol or a 5.56mm LMG ( Belt feed ) is suited not 30mm AGL and FN-MAG MMG, Hence the Chassis and System is fine but not the weapon system, With lighter weapons it can do the role it is design to ..

Now for the MMG and AGL mounted UGCV one would need ( Details provided on first page ) something can take on direct small arm fire, Lead the Solider path and clear enemy strong positions, Provide heavy fire support and surveillance, This is how such system can take full advantage of its weapon system, Hence my argument for track and other needed requirements ..

Regarding the weight, The vehicle will be carrying some heavy batt, Ammunition of both 30mm Shells of AGL, And 7.62mm ammo in drums other can be its RCWS and hydraulics etc ..

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Regarding RCWS, There is a dedicated thread >>

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/27647-rcws-remote-controlled-weapon-station.html

I have created this thread for all members to study RCWS and there variety and there functions, Hope you have a gud read ..

Thanks, May be sometime I will read on RCWS.

I guess then, we will need something better, maybe I guess both the types. one for coin type ops, which is cheaper and more portable and other for regular infantry on border etc.

The spec sheet in first post shows the weight of the system as 300KG, but from the looks in those photos it hard to digest that those thing will weight even more then 50-60 kgs. Am I missing something?

 

[sayareakd]

The Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), a DRDO lab based at Avadi near Chennai, is warming up to take two of its unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) for summer trials in the next two months.

CVRDE Director Dr P Sivakumar told Express on Friday that the UGVs -- Muntra-N designed for nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) reconnaissance and Muntra-M designed for mine detection missions -- are currently undergoing lab level trials at Avadi ahead of the summer trials.

The DRDO had exhibited Muntra-S, meant for surveillance, during the DefExpo in 2012 and the scientists say that the vehicle has already completed the desert trials successfully. Muntra stands for Mission Unmanned Tracked. Sanctioned with a seed money of `60 crore in 2007, the project consists of four vehicles, with three in the unmanned role and the fourth one in a manned mode (Muntra-B), doing the base control duties.

"Muntra-B will be common for all missions depending on the role. During the field trials, Muntra-S operated at very high temperatures in deserts. We tele-operated Muntra-S from a distance of 5 km and it tracked a tank further at a distance of 12 km. The radar has an instrumented range of 18 km. During the trials, we undertook day and night surveillance and tele-operated the vehicle back to the base as well," Sivakumar said. Last year, the CVRDE began the integration of Muntra-M and Muntra-N with lab-level tests. The UGVs could perform in tele-operated, autonomous and manned modes.

"All vehicles are based on the battle proven BMP II class of tracked armoured vehicles. In addition to being ATVs, they have an inherent amphibious capability, thus making a UGV a highly potent and versatile unmanned platform," he added.

How the UGV Works

To facilitate the operation of the UGVs from a distance through wireless means, a drive-by-wire system enables the control of the conventional UGV engine by electronic means. The tele-operation system enables the base vehicle operator to navigate the UGV with the help of opto-electronic sensors. Information about the obstacles and other features around the UGV is gathered by these sensors and this information is displayed at the base vehicle on ergonomically designed display systems

DRDO to Hold Trials of UGVs - The New Indian Express

 

[sayareakd]

technical person who went with me had talk with the maker and said if what they say is possible then this thing has great future.

What i want to say is let them made full auto loader tank on T90S platform and then use it as unmanned T90s for Cold start...........

if crew of manned tank can sit back 4 km and guide the unmanned tank and take aim it will be great achievement and i think IA should pay for all the R&D in advance.

 

[Abhi9]

DRDO to Hold Trials of UGVs

The Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), a DRDO lab based at Avadi near Chennai, is warming up to take two of its unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) for summer trials in the next two months.

CVRDE Director Dr P Sivakumar told Express on Friday that the UGVs -- Muntra-N designed for nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) reconnaissance and Muntra-M designed for mine detection missions -- are currently undergoing lab level trials at Avadi ahead of the summer trials.

The DRDO had exhibited Muntra-S, meant for surveillance, during the DefExpo in 2012 and the scientists say that the vehicle has already completed the desert trials successfully. Muntra stands for Mission Unmanned Tracked. Sanctioned with a seed money of `60 crore in 2007, the project consists of four vehicles, with three in the unmanned role and the fourth one in a manned mode (Muntra-B), doing the base control duties.

"Muntra-B will be common for all missions depending on the role. During the field trials, Muntra-S operated at very high temperatures in deserts. We tele-operated Muntra-S from a distance of 5 km and it tracked a tank further at a distance of 12 km. The radar has an instrumented range of 18 km. During the trials, we undertook day and night surveillance and tele-operated the vehicle back to the base as well," Sivakumar said. Last year, the CVRDE began the integration of Muntra-M and Muntra-N with lab-level tests. The UGVs could perform in tele-operated, autonomous and manned modes.

"All vehicles are based on the battle proven BMP II class of tracked armoured vehicles. In addition to being ATVs, they have an inherent amphibious capability, thus making a UGV a highly potent and versatile unmanned platform," he added.

How the UGV Works

To facilitate the operation of the UGVs from a distance through wireless means, a drive-by-wire system enables the control of the conventional UGV engine by electronic means. The tele-operation system enables the base vehicle operator to navigate the UGV with the help of opto-electronic sensors. Information about the obstacles and other features around the UGV is gathered by these sensors and this information is displayed at the base vehicle on ergonomically designed display systems

 

[Abhi9]

Muntra-N NBC recce