Indian Tank Ammunition Scenario

Ray

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Not only is the IA being shortchanged by the Govt's lopsided policies in ammunition, but also in weapons.

Hopefully, some odd fish does not give the order to 'throw out' adversaries as it was ordered in 1962, when the Army was wilfully left woefully inadequate to even keep itself operationally alive to modernity!
 
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SPIEZ

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Guns being imported can be understood, but ammo not being produced at home sounds really stupid.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The ammo produced is just ok..

Its the Ammo kept in storage not being used is the problem.

You know how to clean your rifle and how to parade with it but not enough experience in marksmanship.

Its ok in Infantry, Infantry fire tons of rounds, But not the same about AD and Armour, Targets are missed miserable, Lack of firing training..

One must provide ammo for training in sufficient until the skills are good enough on charts..
 

H.A.

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Why do i feel that the article has been deliberately published now after the court verdict on Gen VK Singh.

It could have been pointed out earlier.
 

Ray

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Lt Gen Bikram Singh has been announced as the next Chief as per the latest news.

Therefore, I don't think that there is any controversy on that issue.

On the use of ammunition, there is the Service Ammunition, Training or Practice Ammunition and the War Wastage Reserve (WWR).

The scales for the first two categories are laid down. WWR is measured in days based on the contact rates evolved statistically on past experiences of Wars.

The manner in which ammunition is used is that as the self life nears expiry, service ammunition (that is used during war) is downgraded and transferred into the Practice or Training category and the Service ammunition is replenished with stocks from either the WWR or the factory, depending upon the policy and likewise wherever there is a shortfall because of lateral shift, it is replenished.

Certain categories of ammunition, especially the imported variety, owing to lack of import, can run low, because of bureaucratic lethargy in sanction for import or for a variety of other reasons, be they financial or political!
 

sesha_maruthi27

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Guys the congress is trying to ruin INDIA by not allowing to get what the ARMY wants and says that enough money has been spend to buy new weapons and we are also hearing that madam sonia is visiting U.S. in the name of cancer treatment and is actually visiting the C.I.S. and the MI5 to sell INDIA. We the people of INDIA are being made like SITTING DUCKS for our enemy to rule us indirectly. I think madam sonia is bring end to herself by herself........
 
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Blackwater

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The ammo produced is just ok..

Its the Ammo kept in storage not being used is the problem.

You know how to clean your rifle and how to parade with it but not enough experience in marksmanship.

Its ok in Infantry, Infantry fire tons of rounds, But not the same about AD and Armour, Targets are missed miserable, Lack of firing training..

One must provide ammo for training in sufficient until the skills are good enough on charts..


I have heard we have still WW2 era ammo storage system..:mad::mad::mad:
 

Blackwater

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Guys the congress is trying to ruin INDIA by not allowing to get what the ARMY wants and says that enough money has been spend to buy new weapons and we are also hearing that madam sonia is visiting U.S. in the name of cancer treatment and is actually visiting the C.I.S. and the MI5 to sell INDIA. We the people of INDIA are being made like SITTING DUCKS for our enemy to rule us indirectly. I think madam sonia is bring end to herself by herself........

It's not congress fault, its the whole system which is shit. During kargil war India was short of bofors gole within few days.They have to send few IL-76 to south Africa to but gole at higher prices.

BTW that time it was BJP govt
 

Blackwater

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Lt Gen Bikram Singh has been announced as the next Chief as per the latest news.

Therefore, I don't think that there is any controversy on that issue.

On the use of ammunition, there is the Service Ammunition, Training or Practice Ammunition and the War Wastage Reserve (WWR).

The scales for the first two categories are laid down. WWR is measured in days based on the contact rates evolved statistically on past experiences of Wars.

The manner in which ammunition is used is that as the self life nears expiry, service ammunition (that is used during war) is downgraded and transferred into the Practice or Training category and the Service ammunition is replenished with stocks from either the WWR or the factory, depending upon the policy and likewise wherever there is a shortfall because of lateral shift, it is replenished.

Certain categories of ammunition, especially the imported variety, owing to lack of import, can run low, because of bureaucratic lethargy in sanction for import or for a variety of other reasons, be they financial or political!
This type of professional statement can only come from EX servicemen
 

Blackwater

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New Delhi: The India army is seriously short of ammunition, and in the event of war, it may run out of stocks in two days. This has been highlighted in a letter written by Army Chief General VK Singh to Defence Minister AK Antony, reported by the Indian Express.
It also warns of shortages in artillery and air defence ammunition and says that the blacklisting of firms has contributed to the situation.
With reports hinting at cuts in defence spending in the next budget, the army may well see further degradation of its capability.

This comes even as China has announced that it will increase its military spending by 11.2 per cent in 2012. According to an official spokesperson, China will spend nearly 106.4 billion dollars on defence in 2012. The country has witnessed double-digit rises in the defence budget across the last two decades.

Indian army running short of ammunition: General VK Singh - India News - IBNLive
Is it a DRAMA to pressurize govt not to cut defense budget???? or really we are f.............
 

JAYRAM

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saw this today...

After A Two Decade Delay, India To Finally Get Its Howitzers

Wed, Feb 29, 2012 14:37 CET

After consistently having failed to acquire howitzers following the Bofors scandal two decades ago, the Indian Army has placed orders for 100 artillery guns with the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

In the last two decades, the Army's attempt to procure different types of howitzers has failed due to various political reasons in the country.

"The Army has placed orders with the OFB for procuring one hundred 155mm 52 calibre howitzers and this will be developed on the basis of Transfer of Technology (ToT) done by Bofors," Minister of State for Defence M M Pallam Raju was quoted as saying by The Press Trust of India.

He said that the indigenous development of the howitzers would continue alongside trials by the OFB. Within a specific time frame, the guns would be delivered to the Army and that the program would not affect the OFB deal.

After A Two Decade Delay, India To Finally Get Its Howitzers : Defense news
 

SPIEZ

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saw this today...

After A Two Decade Delay, India To Finally Get Its Howitzers

Wed, Feb 29, 2012 14:37 CET

After consistently having failed to acquire howitzers following the Bofors scandal two decades ago, the Indian Army has placed orders for 100 artillery guns with the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

In the last two decades, the Army's attempt to procure different types of howitzers has failed due to various political reasons in the country.

"The Army has placed orders with the OFB for procuring one hundred 155mm 52 calibre howitzers and this will be developed on the basis of Transfer of Technology (ToT) done by Bofors," Minister of State for Defence M M Pallam Raju was quoted as saying by The Press Trust of India.

He said that the indigenous development of the howitzers would continue alongside trials by the OFB. Within a specific time frame, the guns would be delivered to the Army and that the program would not affect the OFB deal.

After A Two Decade Delay, India To Finally Get Its Howitzers : Defense news
Will we paying the royalty and middle man charges for the same in that case ?
Guess Q can still make profits after 3 decades.
 

jackhammer2

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And we cannot spend the whole defense budget and returning it back..

Infantry is fine but same cannot be said about Armour,AD and others..
Well said sir MoD and defence forces has failed to utilise complete allocated budget so why are they creating this drama now ?? Only a strong force backed by a strong economy can survive a long war or else they'll lose it just like the Soviets I mean if govt feels like a little cut of defence spending can help our economy so whats wrong in that ??

And about the training if I am not wrong each and every infantary man fires 200 rounds in a year which is enough but what about the armour and artillery ones ???
 

arya

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Only ten days of ammunition left?

New Delhi: At a time when the focus mainly remains on Gen VK Singh's reported faceoff with the political leadership and the shocking disclosures made by him in the recent past, nobody really seems to be bothered about the status of our armed forces and its requirements.

Much to our discomfort, a shocking report carried by a leading TV news channel claimed on Friday that the Indian Army is facing a serious crisis- its ammunition level is critical and can only last for ten days in the event of a war.

The Army Chief had also pointed to serious gaps in the country defence preparedness in a letter addressed to the PMO, the contents of which were leaked to the media later.

In its report, the channel claimed that Army has repeatedly apprised the political leadership that its war reserves are below critical level and the armed forces does not have sufficient reserve of certain ammunition to meet any eventuality.

As per the report, the list of critical imported ammunition that will last for just 10 days in case of conflict is key mainstay 125 mm tank ammunition called the Fin Stabilized Armoured Piercing.

Reserves for it in 2009 were just for 5.85 days. However, the Army is yet to procure 16000 additional rounds from Russia.

Similarly, the 122 mm high energy reduce charge used by the artillery is expected to last for just 1.27 days if the event of a full-scale war. The procurement of the same has once again been re-tendered.

Apart from the imported equipments and ammunition, the stock of defence related items manufactured by indigenous Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is also at critical level.

Only ten days of ammunition left?
According to a presentation made by the Army in June 2008, the 120 mm Mortar Bomb was available for just 7.43 days of war. Also, the ammunition for the 155 mm illuminating gun is available for just 4.65 days of conflict. The government is still struggling to make up for this deficiency. The 155 mm SMK, smoke ammunition will last for 6.29 days.

What is more alarming is the fact that a large amount of ammunition provided by the Ordnance Factory Boards have been found to be faulty. In its presentation in 2008, the Army claimed that more than 86,000 rounds of 125 mm ammunition were faulty.

Only ten days of ammunition left?
Moreover, nearly 137 lakh rounds of ammunition for the basic INSAS rifle has also been reported to be faulty.

Interestingly, the government had been maintaining that its war reserves can last for 30 days of conflict. In view of the government's claim, the ammunition level at present is at a critical level.

A major factor for this decline in the ammunition level has been the blacklisting of several firms manufacturing defence-related items, in the wake of several scams, by the government
 

arya

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:laugh: and our minister want to sack army chief

thanks army chief
 

Blackwater

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After 10 days our army and babus will be sending our IL-76 and C-130 to other countries to buy ammunition on higher price

and ministers will be running to ammerica and Russia to stop war....:laugh::laugh::pound::pound::frusty::frusty:
 

Kunal Biswas

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What is more alarming is the fact that a large amount of ammunition provided by the Ordnance Factory Boards have been found to be faulty. In its presentation in 2008, the Army claimed that more than 86,000 rounds of 125 mm ammunition were faulty.

Only ten days of ammunition left?
Moreover, nearly 137 lakh rounds of ammunition for the basic INSAS rifle has also been reported to be faulty.
The people at OFB brass should be punished..

Regarding Insas ammo, newer rounds are ok, And newer means recently..
 

arya

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After 10 days our army and babus will be sending our IL-76 and C-130 to other countries to buy ammunition on higher price

and ministers will be running to ammerica and Russia to stop war....:laugh::laugh::pound::pound::frusty::frusty:
i hope your remember kargil you know why we lost more soldiers because we were half ready .
 

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