Indian T-90 in trouble

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Kunal Biswas, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Source : Indian Army To Upgrade T-90 Tanks With Domestic Help | Defense News | defensenews.com

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    So all these faults now coming in HOT, And like many here in DFI & BR raised these issues in past are now conform by horse mouth, More will expose this tank in due time .. ..

    Bloody SCAM !
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I hope dearly that making of those 1000 T-90 get scraped and Production of MK1 & MK2 given the Opportunity ..

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    India is the only country where, Indigenous product are blamed to have foreign components where as foreign product bought at thrice the price are re-worked- re- spend and equipped with Indigenous components ..
     
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  4. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Lol. Fake news as usual.

    First batch of 300-350 tanks have already been produced.

    Two batches are still left pending and we don't yet know if the second batch production has already started.
     
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  5. praneetbajpaie

    praneetbajpaie Tihar Jail Banned

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    It's true but Kunal Da, you will appreciate the fact that we need to create an eco system which makes us manufacture the substantial portion (if not all) of the indigenous equipment. For a country like ours, relying on foreign suppliers for military hardware is the same as shooting oneself in the foot. Every major country in this world has a substantial indigenous military equipment manufacturing base and we need that yesterday.
     
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  6. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Buy leopard from Germany or TOT
     
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  7. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    will germans be so willing as russians on TOT ?
     
  8. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Now the dark side of T-90 purchase is coming out in open. The formidable Russian tank is showing its lack of high potential for which the Indian Army has been pushing for its future purchase. Now the Generals of not too distant past era (2000-13) are probably sheepish that they have been discouraging the introduction of Arjun Tanks - Mark 1 & 2 on flimsy grounds. It is heartening to note that some of the Arjun technology is going to be used in the existing 600, T-90 tanks.

    Is it possible that because of these problems in T-90, the Arjun, 1& 2 will get a push?

    Not likely. Admitting an error in judgement in the matter T-90 purchases is not Indian Army's way of moving forward. They would continue to insist that civilian procurement process made a bad deal, although the Army whole heartedly approved the earlier T-90 deal. So where is the civilian authority's fault? I can give you one or two examples i.e. by not asking for air conditioning and the transfer of technology for the barrel written in the contract were grounds enough to hold the final payment. Since it was not written, the Russian were ahead, they got their price they asked for and wrote an intellectual property rights clause in which they would not let any part of the equipment without their express approval, changed

    All the forgoing problems in the contracts are not new. Russians, Americans, British, Germans, Swedes etc. negotiate the same terms and conditions. They need the future upgrade business, which is more lucrative. Moreover, T-90 negotiations were over shadowed by the Pakistani purchase of T-80 Tanks from Ukraine. For India the T-90 tank is far superior and air conditioning was not an issue in cold countries like Russia. The Indian Generals forgot about these issues at the negotiating table or during the procurement contract work. Now they are blaming the civilians for that.

    But the Russians did well in these contracts. They somehow (may be bribing the Generals) ensured that future supply of another 1,000 tanks would continue. That is where the problem is. Now the Generals are stuck in the existing inventory of T-90 tanks and to continue the additional supply or break free and instead order the Arjun 1 & 2.

    The Indian Army has tried its best to disapprove the Arjun 1 & 2 Tanks for one reason or other. Sometime they said its weight is too high, other time they faulted its reliability, at one time they disapproved its engine. But the DRDO in a relentless pursuit together the civilian authorities kept at and kept on improving the performance of the Arjun Tank. Now it has come out ahead of T-90. Realising that they would be forced to buy Arjuns, they wish to incorporate all those improvements which pre-exist in Arjuns into their T-90s into their possession.

    Now the Army has backed itself into a corner i.e. - whether to continue to disapprove the Arjuns as they had in the past or switch to Arjuns and place the future 1,000 tanks order with DRDO. This battle will continue for some time.

    Its solution is not far off. The existing cream of Armoured Corps Generals who favor T-90 is about to retire. The civilian leadership is about to undergo a change after the May 2014 elections. The new government may insist on Arjuns. That will leave very little room for Generals to argue about. A compromise of improved technology to manufacture Arjuns would clinch the issue. The latter would improve the quality, which the army has been highlighting. The same had been overdue for a while.

    The above formulae would be followed in many other upcoming imports.
     
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  9. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Russians will say, because of this problem we made T90SM, now buy 3800 (Indian tanks sanction limit) of these new T90SM.
     
  10. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    there is no harm in trying
     
  11. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Arjun Mk 2 is a fine tank !!
     
  12. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    third tank..............:scared2:
     
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  13. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    So here is the list of issues with T90S

    1. They didnt sold us Fire control source code
    2. No tech for armor (OFB has to use Kanchan for Arjun tank)
    3. Gun tech was not give.
    4. No AC (DRDO has to make AC)
    5. Issue with Thermal sight.
    6. No APU.
    7. Issues with missile firing earlier (dont know what happen) (even otherwise it does not give any advantage over what Pakistan have)
    8. Navigational system.
    9. Ammo price 3-4 times then what was sold earlier.
    10. No active protection system.
    So except for engine and auto loader, you are looking at brand new tank made by DRDO.......................and we paid top $$$ through trials conducted by our DGMF.............:mad:
     
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  14. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It is not so one-sided. The Russians won't mind selling us T-55s also, and they won't really want us to stop at 3800 either.

    Have you ever been to a shop and the shopkeeper says, "Please don't buy stuff from me?" It's never happened to me and I doubt it ever will. The Russians are no different.
     
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  15. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    More than Russians lobby, Their 'paid Indian' agents in Armed forces are more harmful and need to be contained ..

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    No Missile firing Tot is given, Existing T-90 which were imported has missile firing ability but not the once made in India ..

     
  16. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    What was Saint Anthony doing all these years ??? Is he not prevy to all these ??
     
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  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I have followed T-90 news for years now and there was no such thing ever mentioned.

    We need ToT if we are to put our armor in the tank.

    Given in 2008. We made our first barrel in 2009. The tanks supplied to the army in 2007 had their barrels replaced with the new one.

    They did not make a Thar desert compatible AC. It is better if DRDO makes it, since we can put the same thing on our other vehicles with dedicated modifications. It can be used on our FMBT in the future, instead of starting one from scratch.

    Solved in 2006.

    T-90 has something that was considered better at the time. It has batteries that power the turret when the engine is switched off. Now, electronics have taken over and need more power, so APU is needed. Current APU in the tank is a 1KW system that allows communications.

    The batteries recharge when the engine turns on again.

    What happened?

    It is Indian/Israeli.

    It was an unrealistic demand from MoD. They wanted new ammo in 2010 at 2000 prices. How will they get it? That's where the 4X story comes from. Add a bit of sensationalism, and you have a nice T-90 bashing story.

    It doesn't really change things.
     
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  18. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    To add more concrete to below statement .. >>

    [​IMG]

    Source : Pakistani Agent of Fear Sends Chill Down Defence Ministry Spine - The New Indian Express

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    Why enemy intel would want to know exact locations of Arjun regiments ?, That is because they know that Arjun pose a serious thread and superior to other Tin cans, Its best to know the location and in war times destroy them first, Arjun is also crown jewel of India, Destruction of Arjuns will send be a blow to Indian effort in standing on its own feet, Rest of the damage will do by our paid media by negative PR to bring down the moral in people, like they are doing it now ..
    @Archer , @ersakthivel

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  19. militarysta

    militarysta Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    So in other way: good marketing and sales menageres in Russia :)
    And this trade whit so many problems for IA was possible only thanks to pointles and too long Arjun program.
    In fact Arjun is developing since when -1980s? And what result? Buing T-72M1 Aleya. Ok, Arjun is still developing in whole 1990s, Pakistan bought VERY modern T-80U, so India must buy in 2000s T-90S and countrbalance for Pakistani tanks.
    Arjun during whole 2000s is still developing (word long time record was taken here...). Pakistani developed quite good Chineese-Ukrianian-Pakistani Al-Chalid and Al-Chalid1, 2010 India is still without ended Arjun on aceptable level.

    Russia dictate sucht trades for India becouse IA have no other option -just buing more and more T-90S as "gap filter".
    And all is cause by to long Arjun program.
     
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  20. militarysta

    militarysta Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    and don't blame T-90S tank. It's exatly that tank what was needed by IA.
    You got quality on cost level IMHO. And I suppose that:
    a) thre was no third option for IA in whole 2000s. - T-72M1 made "base" and it's supply simmilar to T-90S so whole think was cheper for IA.
    b) T-90S is guite good tank. Of course it have some flaws but it can be "fixed" by modernisation right now. Only interesting think is indian Kanhan armour quality as protection.

    As I said: Arjun program is too long and the result is buing next T-90S on Russian rulles. Becouse IA have no other option in fact.
     
  21. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    You don`t understand the context of this thread, Its not about marketing or business but security of my Nation ..

    You are also not well understood the timeline and mass purchase of Scammed Russian hardware ..

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    In you ' Defense ', T-90S were indeed imported in similar quantity as of Enemy tanks as a stop gap, But Not the senseless mass purchase afterwards ..

     
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