Indian Submarine Fleet.

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by venom, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    Indian navy operates -10 Kilo 877 EKM [Russian]
    04 HDW 209 [German]
    02 Foxtort [Russian]

    On Order - 06 Scorpene [French].

    ATV will be launched on 26th july or 15th aug & will be commissioned in the IN in 2010 or 2011.India Plans to Build & operate 5 ATV's by 2020.

    Akula will join IN in Nov 2009.


    India has issued an RFP for the 2nd line of submarines[6 no's].
    The submarines that are being considered are -
    The Russian Amur Class.
    French Merlin.
    German HDW-214.
    Russian-Italian S-1000.

    Russia will withdraw Amur if It enters the competition with S-1000.


    Is the current IN Submarine fleet capable of dealing with Pakistani Navy & Chinese?
     
  2.  
  3. king_aashu

    king_aashu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    India
    except Augusta & P-3 yes. but they make lot of change. prob. with PN is lack of surface support, present PN ships are siting ducks to jags & brhamhos.

    PNS Gazi was a mystery and nick named Kali by IN. So until we don't had Akula crossed your finger.
     
  4. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,020
    Likes Received:
    1,695
    Why is the Kilo and A-90 B goin to do a one on one match up at sea, really...amateurs!
     
  5. king_aashu

    king_aashu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    India
    subs are not for one to one but they are for hunt, 1971 the sub which test the blood was of PN and it escaped.
     
  6. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    There might be one on one for submarines in a no of situation . for Ex -

    In a few years china will have a Air craft carrier & might form A CBG[carrier battle group]consisting of submarines,destroyers, frigates,minesweepers& corvettes.so in case of war if an Indian sub has been alloted the mission of destroying a Air Craft carrier it has to face the submarines.

    You are right........submarines hunt for enemy ships but while hunting it might have to fight against enemy subs. So u cant say that there wont b sub to sub encounters.
     
  7. king_aashu

    king_aashu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    India
    I am not neglecting the scenario, what I want to say the chances are minimal, it's not like dogfights.:mornin:
     
  8. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,208
    Likes Received:
    6,640
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    did we hunt any of pn ships in any war using the IN submarines?
     
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    I doubt we had Subs in 1971. Our first ones were in 1973.
     
  10. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,020
    Likes Received:
    1,695

    Yet ghazi was destroyed, in a net of mines ,System son System and TEAM WORK!!!!
     
  11. John

    John Guest

    Scorpene: 6, each can carry upto 18 torpedoes...gr8 hunter killer... but no cruise missiles so useless for land attack.

    HDW 209: 4: type 1500 can carry upto 14 torpedoes...also a good hunter killer.

    10 Kilos: SA-N-8 SAM launchers, range 15km, Club missiles max. range 220km, torpedoes and mines...gr8 for land and ship attack.

    why get more Diesel electrics when we we can order better and cheaper ATVs.
     
  12. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    139
    4 of the 10 Kilos Indian Navy operates have undergone structural modifications to enable them to fire the nuclear capable Klub missile.
     
  13. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    1. Scorpene can fire Exotec Anti-ship missiles & with little modification it can even carry Harpoon.

    2.ATV's are not Cheap.Each ATV costs around 850-900million dollars where as an Scorpene costs 450-500 million dollars.
     
  14. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    The Russian Connection to India’s Nuclear Submarine Program

    On December 5, 2008, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev lifted the veil off one of the worst kept secrets in the arms trade, by confirming that Russia was indeed at an advanced stage of negotiations with India for the transfer of nuclear-powered submarines. A few days later, Mikhail Dmitriev, Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, specified that the deal concerned the lease of Nerpa Project 971 (Improved Akula class) nuclear-powered attack submarine to India for a period of 10 years, beginning in 2009.

    The lease of Russian SSN must be seen in the context of India’s indigenous nuclear-powered submarine program. India’s secretive current nuclear-powered submarine Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) program was noted openly for the first time on December 8, 1994 by the former Chair of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission, M.P. Srinivasan, who described it as a joint project of the Ministry of Atomic Energy, the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Navy.For its part, the Indian Navy officially acknowledged the program only in December 2007, when Chief of the Naval Staff Suresh Mehta said the ATV was «at the final stages of development and would be launched within two years.»

    Since then, however, the ATV has apparently not yet been transferred to the Navy for trials3. Moreover the stated trials period is rather long, at 18 months, and so the lead ship will probably not enter into service before 2010–20114. Once the lead ship is completed, another four submarines of the same class are planned for production, and the second submarine has already been laid down5. The entire series should enter into service sometime before 2025.

    For India, then, the lease agreement with Russia serves as an interim measure to ensure uninterrupted training and infrastructure development while its indigenous nuclear-powered submarine program gets underway. Indeed, a precedent for this strategy was established some time ago, when India leased a nuclear-powered submarine from the Soviet Union in the 1980s with the aim of providing a jump-start to the development of the ATV and to provide training for a new cadre of submarine sailors.

    The Soviet Project 670 (Charlie class) K-43 nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine was first shown to an India delegation in August 1982. Preparations for the transfer of the submarine included the built of a training center at the Bay of Uliss (Vladivostok) for Indian crewmen, including their own pier, a floating barracks for the Soviet crew, residential and training buildings for Indian sailors, a decontamination center and a radiation safety service.

    The Obninsk and Komsomolsk-on-Amur training centers provided all training equipment and materials. Two full crews with officers passed the training program in 1983, and Indian sailors began training on the K-43 from March 1985 to April 1986. After this, the submarine was mid-life repaired and upgraded at the Zvezda Shipyard. The contract for the lease was signed in July 1987, and on January 5, 1988 the submarine entered into service with the Indian Navy as the Chakra.

    Although the submarine was in service with the Indian Navy, the contract provided for 30 Soviet instructors to maintain key posts on the submarine around the clock, and as many as forty Soviet industrial specialists were involved in servicing it. The submarine was based at the Visakhapatnam Naval Base. A special pier with a 60-ton crane, a covered berth and workshops were built to service the submarine.

    The submarine was used extensively by the Indian Navy. It traveled 72 thousand nautical miles (133 thousand kilometers), and the reactor was active for 430 days. Five Ametist-15 (SS-N-7) anti-ship missiles and 42 torpedoes were fired. An accident on board the vessel in 1989 was contained, there was no radioactive leakage to the submarine or the environment, and the submarine returned to base on its own power. Repairs supported by representatives of the Afrikantov design bureau took three months to complete.

    During the third and final year of the lease (1990), India requested an extension, but the Soviet leadership refused. The submarine returned to Vladivostok in January 1991, where it was taken into service with the Pacific Fleet.

    The next time the issue of a lease was raised again was probably in 1999, between Admiral of the Fleet Vladimir Kuroyedov and Chief of Naval Staff Sushil Kumar.In December 2000 India said it would negotiate a lease of a Russian nuclear powered submarine with the aim of preserving the know-how gained from the Chakra. 9 Within a year, international media reported that about 40 Indian sailors were off to Russia to inspect an unspecified type of Russian nuclear-powered submarine.In Russia, Vladimir Kuroyedov was the first to discuss the lease, in January 2002 during a visit to the Amur Shipyard. He said that India would finance the completion of two submarines being built at Amur, with the first to be delivered in 2004. Meanwhile, four Indian crews would be trained in Russia.The lease would be for no less than three, and likely between five and ten years.According to foreign estimates, the yearly cost of the lease would be between ten and 25 million dollars.The precise terms of the agreement for at least two submarines were probably reached in January 2004, at the time of the signing of the contract for the refitting of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier. That year, work on the Project 971 Nerpa (submarine Yard No. 518) accelerated, and an Indian delegation visited the Vostok plant of the Amur Shipyard11 and its submarine testing range.In October 2004 the Federal Agency for Industry and the Amur Shipyard signed an MOU on the completion of built of two nuclear-power attack submarines, just when the Nerpa was estimated to be 85% complete, and «Yard No. 519,» the second submarine, to be 60% complete.According to Russian press reports, India at this time paid an advance of $100 million to Russia.

    Official data on the value of the contract was not available at that time, though the press quoted a source from Russian industry putting the cost of completing both submarines at $400 million.Unofficial Indian sources estimated the cost of the entire contract at $650 million.The figure of 26 billion rupees was also cited, which at 2004 rates would have been about $600 million.

    The India media hazarded a few more guesses as to the content and cost of the contract. One report suggested that India would lease two Project 971 submarines for five years for $350 million ($35 million per sub per year), and that the contract was signed in January 2007 during President Putin’s visit to India.However, this was denied at the time by the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation.Another report said the contract was signed in November 2007 during Prime Minister Singh’s visit to Moscow.

    The total cost of the contract probably includes expenses for the training of the crew. According to Russian media, a special training complex was built in the Russian Navy nuclear-powered submarine trainig center at Sosnovy Bor near St. Petersburg, where three crews (a total of about 300 people) were trained between 2006 and 2008. In the future, this facility will be used to train the crews for Indian-made nuclear powered submarines.This center, which the Russian media describes as a Russian-Indian center for nuclear cooperation in the military sphere, was built right next to a similar complex for the training of Russian sailors, which likely began operations in 2006.

    Meanwhile, «Yard No. 518» submarine was completed as Project 971I (Irbis), and was launched on 24 June, 2006. The transfer to the Indian Navy was initially planned for August 2007, but there were delays at the Amur Shipyard, and Rosoboroneksport tried to raise the price of the contract to $785 million, due to domestic price increases and rising value of the ruble. The Indians refused to increase the price but agreed to postpone the transfer date.

    Yard trials of the submarine began on June 11, 2008, with the intention of transferring the Nerpa to the Indian Navy in September 2009.Initial trials began at the Vostok Plant in August 2008. Yard sea trials began on 27 October, after which the Nerpa should have been transferred to the Russian Ministry of Defense’s State Commission.However, the State sea trials are stopped due to an accident on the submarine in November 2008, which killed 20 people (all Russian citizens, including 17 representatives of the shipbuilding industry and three sailors). Sea trials was to resume in February-March 2009, but this date was postponed in January.

    The second SSN was to be delivered to the Indians in 2010,but in view of the delays affecting the completion of the Nerpa, this deadline will not likely be met. Either the transfer will be postponed, or a similar ship in use by the Russian Navy will be offered instead.

    Scattered reports suggest that even more nuclear-powered submarines may be leased to India in the future. In late 2008, the Director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriev said it was quite possible that Russia would lease «a few nuclear-powered submarines of the same class and Project as the Nerpa.This fits with reported plans of the Indian Navy to acquire or build 10–12 nuclear-powered submarines by 2018.

    As distinct from the single-purpose SSNs of the Russian Navy, the Indian Nerpas will be equipped with the Club-S (SS-N-27) missile system, similar to those on India’s upgraded Project 877EKM (Kilo class) conventional submarines and its Project 11356 (Talvar class) frigates. In addition, the Indian Navy and the Defense Research Development Organization is developing a cruise missile with a range of about 1 thousand km that will give the Nerpa (and the ATV) substrategic capability.

    With the transfer of the first Project 971 SSN, the Indian Navy is acquiring more than just hardware, but the knowledge and experience necessary to operate a submarine. These two submarines will in all likelihood be used as training stations for crews destined to man the ATVs currently under construction.

    And since the ATVs have been designed to serve mainly as a nuclear deterrent, the Indian Navy will still lack a attack SSN; at least, there have been no reports of any program to develop one. In this case, further leases or purchases of Russian nuclear-powered submarines would appear to be a logical way to fill in this «tactical niche,» allowing for efforts to focus on completing the development and construction of the five ATV submarines.

    Moscow Defense Brief
     
  15. John

    John Guest

    do we have exocets??? or are we getting them with the Scorpene? ATV the first costs a lot but subsequent ones will cost lower besides you forget ATV has very little life time costs but Scorpene has to be fueled very often hence over its lifetime it will be more expensive. Besides the nearly Billion dollar price tag fro ATV also includes development costs.
     
  16. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Exocets can be fired from maritime jaguars right?
     
  17. John

    John Guest

    yes but IAF chose for the Harpoon to be fired from the Jag. my question is do we have exocets in our inventory?? i dont think we do, we were never interested in it.
     
  18. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    Jaguars are armed with Sea eagle ASHM with a range of 120 kms.IN Does not possess exocets.
     
  19. John

    John Guest

    yes it can fire Sea Eagle and Harpoon will also be integrated if it isn't already. Harpoon will also go on board the P-8I.
     
  20. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,410
    Likes Received:
    971

    The IAF issued a request for proposal to arm them deep-strike Jags with long range anti-ship missiles in September of 2006. Among the competitors bidding for the contract were Boeing Integrated Defence Systems with its Harpoon active radar homing, low level sea-skimming missiles and the French-European consortium MBDA with its Exocet AM-39 multiple aerial-platform missile. As ya'll know, we signed on the dotted line for a 170 million dollar contract for [the vastly more capable] Harpoon AGM-84L Block II 's in 2008. So I'm led to believe that that precluded any Exocet purchase. And the fact that we did express interest in procuring larger numbers of these missiles, as they could be deployed on long range maritime reconnaissance aircraft (the eight Boeing P-81 MMA's we acquired in January) means that we're firmly in on the Harpoon's line of sight.

    Long story short: Yes, maritime Jaguars can fire Exocet missiles. We were infact interested in purchasing them back in 2006, but to all indications we did not.
     
  21. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    Underwater Missile


    Why not develop similar tech & install it on the Kilo's,HDW-209, Scorpene's & ATV as well as frigates & destroyers of IN?
    The supercavitating underwater missile is a technology demonstration program for close-in defence against underwater targets. It is equipped with a solid-propellant rocket motor, inertial measurement unit, autopilot and a conical tip which can be moved by means of an actuator system. The rocket motor provides the missile with a submerged speed of more than 400km/hr. The inertial measurement unit and the autopilot stabilize the missile so that the heading is held. The flexible nose cone provides steering just as a missile's fins do. Due to its high submerged speed, it moves in an air bubble, the so-called cavitation bubble, wherein almost vacuum prevails, thus greatly reducing its water resistance and enabling the high speed. To date, around a dozen test models of the underwater missile have been built and tested successfully. The tests focused on stabilization, guidance and maximization of agility, which is of great advantage for engaging rapidly moving underwater targets. The supercavitating underwater missile is suited for use from submarines and surface vessels.
     

Share This Page